Teachers, can you do better, or worse?

[Whyme]

8 hours ago, Marathoner said:

That's not an answer to the question posed to you, my friend. I asked if you were without error. Are you?

I believe God showns me my errors.

[Whyme]

What is this scripture saying? Does it say we only need teachers until we are mature? This isnt talking about a future event, it says as a result we are no longer children tossed around by the winds of doctrine. 

 

Ephesians 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as [d]pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the [e]saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the [f]knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature [g]which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 [h]As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of people, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

[OneLight]

28 minutes ago, Whyme said:

He said we still had to observe sabbath. Im not sure what he meant exactly but i assume he was referring to Sunday. Jesus didnt rest on the sabbath, he did Gods work. 

I've listened to him many times over the years and not once have I heard him say that we needed to observe the sabbath as the Jews do.  Neither have I heard him speak against doing Gods work on the sabbath.  I will say that he knows that the sabbath is a Saturday and Sunday is when he celebrates the risen Christ.  I have heard him speak about not judging others according to which day of the week they rest or worship, quoting Colossians 2:16-17.

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

So again, I am not sure why you discount him as a teacher?

[enoob57]

The Holy Spirit uses solely The Word of God called the Scripture to renew our minds so that we grow... without it nothing will occur

2 Tim 3:15-17

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
 

 

[OneLight]

15 minutes ago, Whyme said:

What is this scripture saying? Does it say we only need teachers until we are mature? This isnt talking about a future event, it says as a result we are no longer children tossed around by the winds of doctrine. 

 

Ephesians 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as [d]pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the [e]saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the [f]knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature [g]which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 [h]As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of people, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

Paul tells us when: "until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ."

Ask yourself, have we ...

• obtained the unity of faith?
• know all there is to know about the Son of God?
• matured to our fullest?
• reached the measure of stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ?

That day will not come until we are with Christ forever.  Until we die and go to be with God, we will continue to grow in maturity and in His likeness, so until death, we need what God has given us to become whom He wants us to be.

[Whyme]

2 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I've listened to him many times over the years and not once have I heard him say that we needed to observe the sabbath as the Jews do.  Neither have I heard him speak against doing Gods work on the sabbath.  I will say that he knows that the sabbath is a Saturday and Sunday is when he celebrates the risen Christ.  I have heard him speak about not judging others according to which day of the week they rest or worship, quoting Colossians 2:16-17.

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

So again, I am not sure why you discount him as a teacher?

He promotes a Sunday rest. But again, Jesus didnt rest on sabbath. I can give you a youtube video but im not allowed to post them here am i?

 

[Whyme]

10 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Paul tells us when: "until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ."

Ask yourself, have we ...

• obtained the unity of faith?
• know all there is to know about the Son of God?
• matured to our fullest?
• reached the measure of stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ?

That day will not come until we are with Christ forever.  Until we die and go to be with God, we will continue to grow in maturity and in His likeness, so until death, we need what God has given us to become whom He wants us to be.

The scripture says as a result we are no more children tossed about by the doctrines of men. So yes that refers to maturity. Its not some future event that happens only when the Lord returns, no it reads more like something in the present.

[Whyme]

2 minutes ago, Josheb said:

 

You'll notice Paul did not say the mature won't have any need of teachers. He simply said they won't be vulnerable to deceitful ones.

Note the Word "until" in that scripture. In other words, he gave teachers until we are not children anymore, tossed around by the winds of doctrine.

[Your closest friendnt]

On 4/20/2021 at 12:57 PM, Whyme said:

I believe every denomination has some error, some more than others but i wont mention names in the OP. Anyway, my question is can a person learn by themselves, without the faulty doctrine of men, and be better off than following a denomination? Certainly you could do worse than a denomination, Jim Jones comes to mind. But i think that online fellowship is profitable for learning. There are no Jim Jones on this forum im sure. What do you think?

There is something in the above OP with it's general statements in the form of a question, as "can a person learn by themselves without the help of others?

This question can be answer with an affirmative "yes". 

I do not think anyone can deny that for the reasons that we all have been nourish in this world with the assistance of others. 

This OP I do not think is about the very basics, about the first steps. 

This OP is about a mature individual, and it is not strict as it may been seen at first, it implies that the person seeks to be guided by the Spirit of truth, by the Paracletous. 

Searching the scriptures we can find many examples of how it happened in the past, how the Lord seek to guide and how was successful in making that happened and the method he used that make it happened and that the result all the time was that the people were divided. 

The Lord knew that what would reveal to someone (examples to follow) that will divide the people it will make them form their own groups. 

The Lord knew that because to be able to teach or correct someone will result in divisions amongst the ones who seemed to be United before the testing of their understanding matters about the faith. 

We have many examples in the OT and in the NT. 

One example is that of Philip where the Lord cross cultures. 

The Lord revealed that he is a accepting the faith of all people regardless of their culture. 

In this example we learn that Jesus Christ did not died for "a specific Coulture" but he died for all Cultures as they were at the time of his death on the Cross, and at that moment even though they still were as they were before his death on the Cross and they continued to be, but to him to Jesus Christ they were not anymore. To Jesus Christ everyone one on the world including the Living and those to come and those who were "the whole world" were all ready to believe as they were, they were all reconciled to God through the rest of his Son Jesus Christ. 

All the divisions collapsed amongst people to God were collapsed.

God Knew it and the Devil knew it, and the Dead knew it, but the Living did not knew it as yet, as they were the last ones to know. 

To Peter it was made known not on the day of Penticost but on the later Day of Penticost upon the Romans. "The Gentiles Romans in the eyes of people, but not according to God". 

 

 

 

 

[OneLight]

25 minutes ago, Whyme said:

He promotes a Sunday rest. But again, Jesus didnt rest on sabbath. I can give you a youtube video but im not allowed to post them here am i?

 

When you hear the word sabbath, what comes to your mind?