When will we rule and reign with Christ? What will it be like? Is it yet future?

[Sister]

14 hours ago, Diaste said:

The war in heaven where Satan is kicked out looks like the midpoint. People say Satan was kicked out long ago but I don't see it. 

Rev 12:7-12 says it's only at this point "the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."

Just as a point of logic the great dragon could not be kicked out before the prophecy is given, then it wouldn't be prophecy.  

 

Hi Diaste

I am one of those who say that Satan was kicked out of heaven a long time ago, because Rev 12 clearly states that war broke out in heaven after the man child was caught up to the Father.  This was the same day that Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead.  This is his victory against Satan and a third of the angels who all conspired and deceived man into having him killed.  Satan was cast out from that day and cannot corrupt heaven any more by traveling up and down, but is now barred forever, and instead bound to this earth, his domain, which is everything under the firmament where he does his business until his final destruction.

And the earth has now become like Satan's Goldfish bowl.

You state that this prophecy could not of been given after the fact, because we know John was around 70ad, but I say that it can, because this whole prophecy of Rev 12 is including some background, some history, to reveal the timing of EXACTLY when war broke out in heaven, and Satan thrust out.  From that information freely given to us, we can follow the pattern and understand now why Satan is so full of wrath, because he is no longer accepted in heaven and now is acting on revenge with Christ's followers, his main target from that day forth and escalating up to the 2nd Coming.

So not all prophecy reveals only future, but reveals the invisible events hidden from us that can only be revealed through the Word of God which sheds light in a dark place, giving further insight.

 

  John 12:31   Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

  John 14:30   Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

  John 16:11   Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

[DeighAnn]

33 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hi Diaste

I am one of those who say that Satan was kicked out of heaven a long time ago, because Rev 12 clearly states that war broke out in heaven after the man child was caught up to the Father.  This was the same day that Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead.  This is his victory against Satan and a third of the angels who all conspired and deceived man into having him killed.  Satan was cast out from that day and cannot corrupt heaven any more by traveling up and down, but is now barred forever, and instead bound to this earth, his domain, which is everything under the firmament where he does his business until his final destruction.

And the earth has now become like Satan's Goldfish bowl.

You state that this prophecy could not of been given after the fact, because we know John was around 70ad, but I say that it can, because this whole prophecy of Rev 12 is including some background, some history, to reveal the timing of EXACTLY when war broke out in heaven, and Satan thrust out.  From that information freely given to us, we can follow the pattern and understand now why Satan is so full of wrath, because he is no longer accepted in heaven and now is acting on revenge with Christ's followers, his main target from that day forth and escalating up to the 2nd Coming.

So not all prophecy reveals only future, but reveals the invisible events hidden from us that can only be revealed through the Word of God which sheds light in a dark place, giving further insight.

 

  John 12:31   Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

  John 14:30   Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

  John 16:11   Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I am a little lost. 

Do I understand that you believe that Satan has been alive on the earth for the past 2000 or so years?  No one has noticed him never dying?  Who is he today? Does he look 2ooo years old?  What has he been waiting for?  Why isn't he being worshipped as God?  Why hasn't he had the temple rebuilt?  What has he been doing?  Why doesn't anyone ever mention him?  Have the two witnesses been here too?  Who has been brought up before him?  How come we haven't been seeing supernatural signs and wonders?  Where are the other fallen angels?  Where are their offspring?  Shoot,  God had to destroy the world by the flood less than 1000 years after they were here before and now you are telling me it has been 2000 and we don't see these evil giant 6 fingered mutations running around all over the place?  I really don't get it.  


I know these are a lot of questions but seriously, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  I hope you can give me more scripture.  You know God said the time would be shortened or else even the elect would be deceived.  How is it instead of it being shortened it has been made twice as long? Where do I find where all this was changed?  Looking forward to hearing your take on at least some of these.  

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Diaste

I am one of those who say that Satan was kicked out of heaven a long time ago, because Rev 12 clearly states that war broke out in heaven after the man child was caught up to the Father.  This was the same day that Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead.  This is his victory against Satan and a third of the angels who all conspired and deceived man into having him killed.  Satan was cast out from that day and cannot corrupt heaven any more by traveling up and down, but is now barred forever, and instead bound to this earth, his domain, which is everything under the firmament where he does his business until his final destruction.

And the earth has now become like Satan's Goldfish bowl.

You state that this prophecy could not of been given after the fact, because we know John was around 70ad, but I say that it can, because this whole prophecy of Rev 12 is including some background, some history, to reveal the timing of EXACTLY when war broke out in heaven, and Satan thrust out.  From that information freely given to us, we can follow the pattern and understand now why Satan is so full of wrath, because he is no longer accepted in heaven and now is acting on revenge with Christ's followers, his main target from that day forth and escalating up to the 2nd Coming.

So not all prophecy reveals only future, but reveals the invisible events hidden from us that can only be revealed through the Word of God which sheds light in a dark place, giving further insight.

 

  John 12:31   Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

  John 14:30   Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

  John 16:11   Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I have never looked into this too much in the past so some back and forth will be interesting. :)

 

And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed in the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and crying out in the pain and agony of giving birth.

I don't know if this is categorized as 'history' per se. It is born of an earlier time, originating in the past but this exists today as the corporate entity depicted in verse 1 still exists. The second sentence I also liken to a past event based on the verses in the following text.

3Then another sign appeared in heaven: a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. 4His tail swept a third of the stars from the sky, tossing them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, ready to devour her child as soon as she gave birth.

That dragon in v 3 exists today with origins in the deep past so this isn't a look into the past either. Apparently this dragon of some stature did cast stars to earth at some point and one can think this 'sweeping and tossing' was in the past, but the text doesn't say that. So far I am only seeing that v 2 and v 4b happened in the past. And just because a birth and an assassination attempt did happen in the past that's not to say v 1-6 depict history in their entirety, but that certain significant historical moments identify whom we are seeing.

5And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was caught up to God and to His throne. 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where God had prepared a place for her to be nourished for 1,260 days.

Verses 2, 4b and 5 in my mind quite clearly depict the birth of Jesus, His escape from Herod and flight to Egypt, His future destiny and that of the nations of earth, and His ascension. While I see those all, everyone should, as great moments in history[except for ruling the nations with a rod of iron] it doesn't automatically follow every verse is historical by association.

 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where God had prepared a place for her to be nourished for 1,260 days.

Let's say the narrative in v 5-6 are a strict chronology. I say they are. I don't think all of 1-6 is chronological but 5-6 certainly are.

Are we saying that immediately upon the ascension the woman[Israel] flees to the wilderness for 3 1/2 years? I don't see that anywhere in scripture or history. I suppose we could say v 6 is the Diaspora but that lasted much longer than 3 1/2 years, or even 1260 years, as some think v 6 may be interpreted. Verse 6 above is parallel to v 14 "But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time." I don't think this is historical unless it can be shown the woman was 'flown by a great eagle to a place of safety in the wilderness for 1260 24 hour days' some time immediately after the ascension.

And then we have verse 7; "Then a war broke out in heaven:" After v 1-6 'then' a war broke out. Only after the woman flees does the war occur. We have no clue how fierce the war was. No duration, type or casualties. Just that a war happened and Michael is victorious and Satan is cast to earth. I imagine the duration and fierceness of the action akin to this; "But fire came down from heaven and consumed them."

The result of losing the war is; "But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels." So  only at this point after the woman flees comes the banishment and exile of the dragon and his angels. Up to this point we see the dragon and his angels had a place in heaven, they were at least allowed access to and from both planes.

While there are profound and important historical moments depicted in Rev 12 I see them as identifiers and not a trip to the past.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Morning, sorry this is going to be real short, bathroom flooded and taking out everything, floor included.  

I hate when that happens. 

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

There are 10 earthly kings.  Then when Satan and his angels are kicked out those 10 earthly kings give up their kingdoms to the 'fallen angels' who rule 'ONE HOUR' with...

Yes. there are 10 earthly kings, but it isn't one of them that gets the deadly head wound, it's one of the 7 heads of the beast. The 10 kingdoms that give up their power to the beast are represented by the horns. "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast." and

Then I saw a beast with ten horns and seven heads rising out of the sea...

One of the heads of the beast appeared to be mortally wounded

 

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

1Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

1Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

They are SAYING it because they are LIVING IT.  What they DON'T know is that IT is all a lie.

Yes, but you said a time of peace is coming. That's what I don't see. No one cries out for the thing they have, they cry out for what they do not have.  There will be no time of peace. Paul speaks to this with the term legó. The idea is to 'bring it to a close'. Paul is telling us the people are making a demand to bring 'peace and safety' not that there are in peace or safety. I have long thought this was limited to Israel and the Jewish people, but I can't prove it.

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The 'offices' of them are thrown in the lake of fire so that at the end of the millennium Satan wont have the same use of them.  

No. A concept isn't being thrown in the lake fire, beings are.

But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Two people captured and thrown alive into the fire. Not titles, beings, people, living flesh. Everything points to these two as separate people captured, sentenced and punished.

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

It is the second half, it is when Satan is ruling.  It is when many, instead of taking the mark,  will come to the realization.  It is when the 144,000 are turned back to God.  THEY are killed in the final 3 1/2 days.  THAT IS what brings THE LORDs DAY 

Maybe, but I doubt it. Generally people don't see the end of the age as having distinct periods beyond the two halves. We have a first half of 1260 days, the A of D which could be a day or two or maybe longer, then the 2nd half which is broken into two parts; the days of GT which could be from months long to years but inevitably cut short from lasting the entire 2nd half, then the coming of the Lord which stops the time of GT and begins the wrath of the Lamb after the gathering. But all is within the last 7 years.

We could get into what the LORD's DAY is but to find the order of the last week it's not relevant.

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

THEY are 'rising' RIGHT NOW.  The one 'beast' system will almost be up and running when the deadly wound occurs.  That ends the 1st half.  Two witnesses sent, Satan kicked out, deadly wound healed, Satans rule and worship buy and sell and two witnesses killed and the Day of the Lord begins.  

This assumes it's going to go more or less like the dispensational premillennialists propose. For the decades I have been looking at this very thing concerning order of events the dispensationalists have been fear mongering over every world organization. It was the UN. It was the EEC, the European Common Market, The EU, now the EC. It's been variously NATO, Russia, the CFR, the Bilderberg Group, and on and on. None came to pass and when it didn't the story changed. Every General Secretary, every member of English Royalty, every billionaire and every US President, has been the Antichrist. 

The concept of 'beast system' is right out of the musty leafs of dark imaginations by ill-informed authors profiteering though fear. It's all a system of Satan and always has been. A beast system isn't coming; we have been walking in that shadow of death since the fall. If we continue to look in the direction of world organizations conceptualizing a beast system with an antichrist figure at it's head we will only succeed in remaining distracted. 

Scripture points out the beast gets power and authority directly from the dragon and the people worship both the beast and the dragon. The beast's army is made of kings who are not kings but only receive kingly power because of the beast. This cancels out any contemporary authorities, kings, heads of state, billionaires and world organizations. What we will see is going to be like aliens come to take over. Nothing can prepare us for what's coming except that Jesus told us all things before. 

I'm on the side of scripture which tells us only what it will look like when it comes to pass; holy writ doesn't name names in end of the age prophecy

[PeterR]

12 minutes ago, electlady said:

And just to add a few important details of info.

1.  There are 2 beasts.  We need to understand this.

     a.  ONE-WORLD political system

Rev. 13:1  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

 

     b.  Satan

Rev. 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

—electlady 

 

 

 

6 is considered the number of the fallen man. Hence the satanic trinity (Satan, the antichrist, and the false prophet) has this number tripled.

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, electlady said:

Yes. ...and guess who causes this deadly wound?

— electlady 

Whom?

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, electlady said:

Yes, I too believe that Satan, the antichrist, and the false prophet are one and the same.  

Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.  Rev 19:20

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, electlady said:

Hint:  First read the David and Goliath story.

I hope you aren't meaning the 'church'.

[Guest kingdombrat]

Isaiah 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

 

 

As we see all across this Forum, several believe we are living this Verse [now].  But I ask, outside of the false preachers and teachers stealing from the Faithful of God, which one of us is or has been living what Isaiah speaks about?

 

NONE of US are or have ever been.

 

So, how can we falsely claim we are in the Mill Reign now?

[Revelation Man]

On 5/8/2021 at 7:02 AM, DeighAnn said:

The message of REVELATION is to the FINAL generation, so that it doesn't apply to the other 6000 plus years of GODS CHILDREN until the RETURN of Christ.  THEN ARMIES are coming with Him.  Who do you imagine those armies to be?   

The book of Revelation is to the 7....(7 = COMPLETE).... Churches thus its was to all of us Saints of the COMPLETE Church Age period. The Armies are the Raptured Church who DID NOT go through the 70th week, thus we do not get killed by the Beast as Martyrs by refusing the Mark of the Beast, only those rule and reign on this earth with Jesus for 1000 years.

 

On 5/8/2021 at 7:02 AM, DeighAnn said:

Since the only time Christ is returning IS as Lord of lords and King of kings that would be the only time a 'rapture' could possibly take place and has been shown the only thing written by God about His return.  I am aware that men have taken verses completely out of the context in which they were written,  to try  this as a truth but it just doesn't work.  If it did,  no doubt those verses would be QUOTED. 

1.) Who states anywhere that Jesus only returns to this earth twice? What you guys to is CONFLATE the two Advents of Jesus with TWO COMINGS to start with. Jesus will indeed only have two types of visitations u to this earth, he comes as a Meekly Lamb led to the slaughter and as a Conquering King who rules with an iron rod. So, you guys confuse the lingo about these two ADVENTS with TWO COMINGS, which is just not factual, Jesus in John 20 told Mary touch me not, for I have not yet ascended unto the Father, but then 8 days later (8 = a New Beginning) Jesus brought the gift of the Holy Spirit (The groom always gives the Bride a gift during her Purification Betrothal period) back from Heaven with him and he then told Doubting Thomas to touch his wounds (Which means he traveled to Heaven, OFFERED the Sacrificial Offering unto God and then returned, and thus Thomas could now TOUCH HIM). So, there is no such thing as Jesus only comes to earth twice, whenever the Prophets or disciples speak about TWO EARTLY REIGNS, they are not saying Jesus can't come to earth in between events, that is just Men's Traditions, which I just proved an error in thinking. 

2.) The Bible states we are SNATCHED UP to meet Jesus in the air, in Rev. 14:14 we see a FLASH BACK where Jesus plunges in the sickle and reaps from upon a Cloud, how to you guys not understand what that means? How do you guys read the Marriage traditions f the Judeans and not understand perfectly what happens in these end times?

I mean the Groom chooses the Bride, John 15:16 – “You did not choose Me, but I chose you . . .” Then the price of the Bride is established, I Corinthians 6:20 - “For you were bought with a price.” The Bride price was paid when Jesus died on the Cross. Then the Betrothal, which was a permanent "Arrangement, see Marry and Joseph", The attachment of the Church to the Lord is also permanent, and forever. “This is the bread which came down from heaven--not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.” (John 6:58) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:28)

Then we have The Marriage Contract, The entire Holy Bible is our written agreement containing the promises of God. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;” (John 8:31)  The Bride must consent “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;” (Mark 16:16) “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” (Romans 10:9)

The Bridal Gift AND the Cup of the Covenant Each time we gather around the Lord’s Table, we remember the “contract.” “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28)

 The Holy Spirit is given by Jesus –– “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38) This, of course, occurred on the Day of Pentecost.

The Ceremonial Purification of the Bride Acts 2:41 – “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized (immersed); and that day about three thousand souls were added [to them].”

This is where we as a Bride are now, we are in the Purification process, which lasted at least 9 months to prove the pureness of the bride (that she had not lain with another man), because the Marriage was permanent. 

The Groom would prepare a room for the Bride in his father’s house John 14:3 – “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself.”

QUESTION, why would Jesus go to PREPARE A PLACE for us (in his Fathers house), which is Heaven, to prepare a PLACE FOR US only to return to this earth, raise us up to Reign on this earth for 1000 years with him? It utterly does not jibe with the scriptures sister. Jesus goes to the Fathers house (Heaven) to prepare a Wedding Chamber for US the Bride and he RECIEVES us unto himself, he doesn't come to earth and Marry us, read Rev. 19, we are Married IN HEAVEN, it is very, very clear sister. I shut down all debaters on this because I have the facts, thus they avoid me on this, instead of just admitting they are wrong.

The father of the groom determines when the room is ready. The groom does not determine the time of the wedding. “But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:36)

The Bride is consecrated and set apart First Peter 2:9 – “But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people.” The Groom returns with a shout, “Behold, the bridegroom comes!” First Thessalonians 4:16 – “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.”

The Bride and Groom go to the wedding chamber. This period when the Bride and Groom spend time together seems to show that the Bride of Jesus will be with Him in Heaven. This appears to indicate a pre-Tribulation gathering of the Church.

The Marriage Supper “‘Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.’ And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, ‘Write: Blessed [are] those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” (The Revelation 19:7-9)

After this MARRIAGE CEREMONY, we return to earth with Jesus Christ, where we see the Marriage Feast is a celebration of victory over the wicked kings of this earth, the Beast and Satan. 

On 5/8/2021 at 7:02 AM, DeighAnn said:

From the statement above, you don't believe that Paul, or any of the Apostles or any of the Prophets will be 'Priests' to rule and reign with Christ.    OK.  

Not sure what 'finish off' New Jerusalem means.  


Satan loosed, final war, lake of fire, New heaven and earth,  AND THEN NEW JERUSALEM.  

Paul, and ALL the rest of us will be in Heaven, doing whatever the Lord has us assigned to do, that may be helping create the New Jerusalem, but whatever it is, it will not be us living on earth with Jesus, ONLY those who refused the Mark of the Beast and thus died as Martyrs during the 70th week will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years. How many super Glorious Body people do you think God needs on earth to help Jesus? a Billion of us or 2 billion? 

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, AND which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So, id we are IN HEAVEN and those who refused the Mark of the Best during the 70th week are ON EARTH, wouldn't that make us available to help build the New Jerusalem? And isn't the New Jerusalem call the Bride of Christ as it descends? I wonder why? I think we are in the New Jerusalem as it descends. All we have to do is put all the clues together, Jesus talked to us in parables. The Judean Wedding is an EXAMPLE, yet way too many people refuse to HEAR what Jesus has clearly stated.