Premillennialism

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, Alive said:

That was not my meaning, Marilyn. I was drawing an analogy as one part of my post to our ongoing sanctification and the Israelites taking Canaan an acre at a time.

Yes---the Lord never was not sovereign as He is God Almighty.

Hi Alive,

Thank you for clarifying that. So glad we agree there.

Sorry to have misunderstood you.

regards, Marilyn.

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

 the devil was saying. "Jump off the pinnacle of the temple, and let the angels catch you." Jesus replied, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'" (See Matthew 4:5-7)

Terrible analogy. Ruling the nations with a rod of iron is something we should see at the very least recorded in history. 

So Jesus was ruling in the kingdoms of men when the Islamic hordes slaughtered 250 million infidels? Many of which held to the testimony of Jesus. So Jesus commanded the Islamic scourge? He was ruling over them? You sure?

There are many other examples of this in the past two millennia. If Jesus is ruling he's doing a terrible job.

[abcdef]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Terrible analogy. Ruling the nations with a rod of iron is something we should see at the very least recorded in history. 

So Jesus was ruling in the kingdoms of men when the Islamic hordes slaughtered 250 million infidels? Many of which held to the testimony of Jesus. So Jesus commanded the Islamic scourge? He was ruling over them? You sure?

There are many other examples of this in the past two millennia. If Jesus is ruling he's doing a terrible job.

Jesus is doing His part, we just have to do our part, in the spiritual battle for love in this present time.

----

What is the "rod of Iron"? and how does it work during the mill period?

I think of someone who tells a lie, or covets his neighbors wife and possessions, then Jesus shows up and starts beating him with a iron rod.

Is that how it works?

[Montana Marv]

With all the demon and idol worshipers from all nations coming out of the final week and into the Mill. Christ does need to rule them with a rod of iron.

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

What is the "rod of Iron"? and how does it work during the mill period?

I think of someone who tells a lie, or covets his neighbors wife and possessions, then Jesus shows up and starts beating him with a iron rod.

Is that how it works?

I don't know precisely. I have thought it's a metaphor for a characteristic approach to His rule. Like the UN, but with real teeth. The Rwanda Genocide would not have been allowed to happen and those planning it would have been dealt with. 

And yeah, maybe....commit adultery and you get a beating. 

One thing is certain it will be very different from what we see today in the area of crime and punishment. 

[abcdef]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't know precisely. I have thought it's a metaphor for a characteristic approach to His rule.

So you are saying that the "rod of iron" is a symbolic image of the way that Jesus rules in the mill period.

 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Like the UN, but with real teeth.

What will happen when war breaks out? Will Jesus send His military to bomb and kill the enemy?

Will Jesus send the police to raid the wrong house?

What will be the punishment for murder?

Think.

 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

The Rwanda Genocide would not have been allowed to happen and those planning it would have been dealt with. 

How would they have been dealt with? Would Jesus be sending in troops?

 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

And yeah, maybe....commit adultery and you get a beating. 

Is that what Jesus said to do to the woman caught in adultery? John 8:1-11.

If Jesus didn't endorse a beating for her then, would He endorse a beating for her during the time of the rod of iron? 

I believe that there would be a lot of people beaten, imprisoned, and suffering from the rod of iron, and not the garden of Eden type place that most envision as the millennium, if that were the case.

 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

One thing is certain it will be very different from what we see today in the area of crime and punishment. 

We are living during the time of the rod of iron.

------

The "rod of iron" is God's love.

God's love is expressed to us through His Word and the gospel.

God's Word is the judgment scale by which we live by, in the new covenant kingdom.

----

We usually think of Jesus with a shepherd staff, for guiding the sheep and defense. 

But the rod of iron is stronger than the wood, both for guidance and defense, well defined.

Under the new covenant, where Jesus has revealed God's love for us and our hearts have been circumcised, we see the effects of accepting the love of Jesus or rejecting His love on the human soul.

The strength of the rod/love is greater, clearer than under the Law of Moses, both for the believer and those who reject the gospel.

For those who accept the gospel message, the rod of iron is strength (faith) and powerful guidance (Bible), leading us to God.

For those who reject the gospel love message, the consequences are guilt, spiritual pain and darkness. These things (guilt) are made much worse when they become exposed to the gospel light, then they turn away from God's love. John 3:16-21.

----

So the "rod of iron" is God's love law, in the new covenant Pentecost gospel kingdom, which is present now.

 

[WilliamL]

On 5/18/2021 at 2:28 AM, Justin Adams said:

We are in the so called ‘millennium’ right now.

Not a single verse in Scripture supports this statement.

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, abcdef said:

So you are saying that the "rod of iron" is a symbolic image of the way that Jesus rules in the mill period.

 

What will happen when war breaks out? Will Jesus send His military to bomb and kill the enemy?

Will Jesus send the police to raid the wrong house?

What will be the punishment for murder?

Think.

 

How would they have been dealt with? Would Jesus be sending in troops?

 

Is that what Jesus said to do to the woman caught in adultery? John 8:1-11.

If Jesus didn't endorse a beating for her then, would He endorse a beating for her during the time of the rod of iron? 

I believe that there would be a lot of people beaten, imprisoned, and suffering from the rod of iron, and not the garden of Eden type place that most envision as the millennium, if that were the case.

 

We are living during the time of the rod of iron.

------

The "rod of iron" is God's love.

God's love is expressed to us through His Word and the gospel.

God's Word is the judgment scale by which we live by, in the new covenant kingdom.

----

We usually think of Jesus with a shepherd staff, for guiding the sheep and defense. 

But the rod of iron is stronger than the wood, both for guidance and defense, well defined.

Under the new covenant, where Jesus has revealed God's love for us and our hearts have been circumcised, we see the effects of accepting the love of Jesus or rejecting His love on the human soul.

The strength of the rod/love is greater, clearer than under the Law of Moses, both for the believer and those who reject the gospel.

For those who accept the gospel message, the rod of iron is strength (faith) and powerful guidance (Bible), leading us to God.

For those who reject the gospel love message, the consequences are guilt, spiritual pain and darkness. These things (guilt) are made much worse when they become exposed to the gospel light, then they turn away from God's love. John 3:16-21.

----

So the "rod of iron" is God's love law, in the new covenant Pentecost gospel kingdom, which is present now.

 

No. No city. 

[Heleadethme]

Been doing a little digging for all our sakes, to help our understanding.

Isa 11:4

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Remember Jesus cursing the fig tree with His mouth?  And Jesus is the Word made flesh...the word of God in His mouth is the rod of His authority and power.  Moses as a type and shadow had a rod by which he did miracles, sending plagues on the enemy of God, and parted the Red Sea.  Jesus sends His word (rod of His mouth) and it is a done deal.

Regarding the rule and reign of Christ:

2Sa 22:10

He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet. (He even rules and reigns over darkness.)

Psa 8:6

Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet

1Co 15:24-28

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Heb 2:8

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

(Nevertheless we are to walk by faith, not by sight....true? ?)

King David was a type and shadow of Christ in this age.  He was King of Israel without question, ruling & reigning and performing his will....nevertheless he had enemies on every side who he was constantly at war with, fighting and subduing them.  Likewise Jesus is assuredly and firmly sitting on the throne, ruling & reigning, though still battling with the Enemy (and we with Him).

1Ki 5:3

Thou knowest how that David my father could not build an house unto the name of the LORD his God for the wars which were about him on every side, until the LORD put them under the soles of his feet.

I’m older than I used to be and been through the knocks and wringer washer of life, and yet here I am, still here and still standing in faith believing.   Looking back I can see that we’re like those bobble dolls that get knocked around and knocked down, but don’t stay down for long, we just bobble back up and keep on keeping on by the grace and power of Christ.   Here in the scripture below is evidence in our own lives that Jesus is ruling & reigning:

2Co 4:7-11

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;

Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

We are simply not defeated by the enemy as long as we keep clinging to Jesus.  And since the last enemy to be defeated is death.....death will come for me and for us all one day, but even that won’t prevail over us...because Jesus is ruling & reigning and has the keys of death and hell....He has authority and power over death.  He delegated His authority over snakes and scorpions to us, so we are also ruling and reigning with Him...but how much we actually “see” that happening depends on how much we as the body of Christ are actually walking by faith. 

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

Been doing a little digging for all our sakes, to help our understanding.

Isa 11:4

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Remember Jesus cursing the fig tree with His mouth?  And Jesus is the Word made flesh...the word of God in His mouth is the rod of His authority and power.  Moses as a type and shadow had a rod by which he did miracles, sending plagues on the enemy of God, and parted the Red Sea.  Jesus sends His word (rod of His mouth) and it is a done deal.

Regarding the rule and reign of Christ:

2Sa 22:10

He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet. (He even rules and reigns over darkness.)

Psa 8:6

Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet

1Co 15:24-28

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Heb 2:8

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

(Nevertheless we are to walk by faith, not by sight....true? ?)

King David was a type and shadow of Christ in this age.  He was King of Israel without question, ruling & reigning and performing his will....nevertheless he had enemies on every side who he was constantly at war with, fighting and subduing them.  Likewise Jesus is assuredly and firmly sitting on the throne, ruling & reigning, though still battling with the Enemy (and we with Him).

1Ki 5:3

Thou knowest how that David my father could not build an house unto the name of the LORD his God for the wars which were about him on every side, until the LORD put them under the soles of his feet.

I’m older than I used to be and been through the knocks and wringer washer of life, and yet here I am, still here and still standing in faith believing.   Looking back I can see that we’re like those bobble dolls that get knocked around and knocked down, but don’t stay down for long, we just bobble back up and keep on keeping on by the grace and power of Christ.   Here in the scripture below is evidence in our own lives that Jesus is ruling & reigning:

2Co 4:7-11

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;

Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

We are simply not defeated by the enemy as long as we keep clinging to Jesus.  And since the last enemy to be defeated is death.....death will come for me and for us all one day, but even that won’t prevail over us...because Jesus is ruling & reigning and has the keys of death and hell....He has authority and power over death.  He delegated His authority over snakes and scorpions to us, so we are also ruling and reigning with Him...but how much we actually “see” that happening depends on how much we as the body of Christ are actually walking by faith. 

Well said and I agree. Your last paragraph brings up something I cannot wrap my mind around? Perhaps you have some thoughts?

1 Corinthians 15:26 (KJV) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. Here's a short commentary:

last enemy … death. Christ has broken the power of Satan, who held the power of death (Heb. 2:14), at the cross. But Satan will not be permanently divested of his weapon of death until the end of the Millennium (see notes on Rev. 20:1–10). At that point, having fulfilled completely the prophecy of Ps. 8:6 (v. 27a), Christ then will deliver the kingdom to His Father, and the eternal glory of Rev. 21, 22 will begin.

John MacArthur Jr., ed., The MacArthur Study Bible, electronic ed. (Nashville, TN: Word Pub., 1997), 1756.

This raises a theological question in my mind? If [all] death is destroyed, is there a relationship also to the "second death?" In other words, would those dead and death be annihilated? Is this death henceforth, from this point forward: or does it include all death?