Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[FreeGrace]

On 3/24/2023 at 9:16 AM, Alive said:

I've asked the Lord why these things aren't clear and why there are so many different views held by honest men. He doesn't tell me. I am left with the position of waiting for a loud shout and a trumpet sounding.

But "these things" are clear.  In spite of all the claims to the contrary.  There are no verses that describe Jesus taking resurrected/changed believers to heaven at any time, whether pre or post tribulation.  That is a fact.  All verses used to defend a pre-trib rapture (trip to heaven) is based on speculation and presumption.

Here is the truth regarding end times and WHEN everyone will be resurrected.

1.  All humans will be resurrected, saved and unsaved.  Dean 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15 clearly state that the saved and unsaved will be resurrected.

2.  The singular resurrection of the saved will be "when He comes", a reference to the Second Advent.  1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.  This verse indicates that Jesus will be the FIRST to receive a glorified immortal physical body, followed by "those who belong to Him", which cannot mean anything LESS than every saved person, since all who He saves do belong to Him.  And that will be "when He comes" back at the Second Advent.

3.  2 Thess 2:1 also notes that the resurrection is at the Second Advent.

4.  Rev 20:4-6 shows that the resurrection of the saved will be 1,000 years before the resurrection of the unsaved.

5.  The bodies of the unsaved will DIE AGAIN when they are cast into the LOF, which is why the LOF is also called the "second death".  However, Rev 20:10 shows that those cast into the LOF will "be tormented day and night for ever and ever".  

[FJK]

1 minute ago, FreeGrace said:

 All verses used to defend a pre-trib rapture (trip to heaven) is based on speculation and presumption.

It's always easier to believe what we want to believe than to seek the truth.

In these last days many people seem to be searching out preachers that tell them what they want to hear instead of searching for a true doctrine that is much more difficult to follow.

To find truth you must first believe it exists then be willing to accept it may very well turn out to be something other than what you want it to be.

 

[farouk]

5 minutes ago, FJK said:

It's always easier to believe what we want to believe than to seek the truth.

In these last days many people seem to be searching out preachers that tell them what they want to hear instead of searching for a true doctrine that is much more difficult to follow.

To find truth you must first believe it exists then be willing to accept it may very well turn out to be something other than what you want it to be.

 

Hi @FJK A Scripture that I find compelling for example is 1 Cor. 11.26: who is the Apostle referring to in relation to showing the Lord's death 'till He come'? Israel? Gentiles? or actually the church?

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, farouk said:

We are really talking there about the end of the age of grace.

"Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;" 1 Peter 1:13 KJV

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all," Romans 4:16 KJV





And I saw out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet spirits three unclean like frogs

they are for spirits of demons performing signs which go forth to the kings of the inhabited whole to gather together them unto the battle of the day great of God the Almighty  Behold I am coming like a thief blessed the watching and keeping the garments of Him so that not naked he should walk and they might see the shame of him.

HOW MANY WAYS MUST IT BE WRITTEN TO BE BELIEVED?


1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


THAT IS HOW GOD IMPARTS INFORMATION.  

SHOW ME GOD IMPARTING THE INFORMATION HE WILL BE COMING BEFORE THAT DAT FOR 'THE CHURCH' 

SHORT OF THAT THERE IS NOTHING TO SAY


 THAT WHAT IS WRITTEN IS WHAT IS TRUE

THAT WHICH ISN'T WRITTEN ISN'T TRUE




 

[FreeGrace]

52 minutes ago, FJK said:

It's always easier to believe what we want to believe than to seek the truth.

Sad and true.

52 minutes ago, FJK said:

In these last days many people seem to be searching out preachers that tell them what they want to hear instead of searching for a true doctrine that is much more difficult to follow.

Reminds me of a verse...

52 minutes ago, FJK said:

To find truth you must first believe it exists then be willing to accept it may very well turn out to be something other than what you want it to be.

So true.  My basic method of determining what is true is to compare what others say with what the Bible says plainly, just like the Bereans did with Paul's preaching in Acts 17:11.  Made a huge difference for me!  

[FreeGrace]

50 minutes ago, farouk said:

Hi @FJK A Scripture that I find compelling for example is 1 Cor. 11.26: who is the Apostle referring to in relation to showing the Lord's death 'till He come'? Israel? Gentiles? or actually the church?

In this age (church age) it doesn't matter, for every believer is "in Christ", whether Jew or Gentile.  And Revelation begins and ends with "the church".  That's all saved people.  

[farouk]

1 minute ago, FreeGrace said:

In this age (church age) it doesn't matter, for every believer is "in Christ", whether Jew or Gentile.  And Revelation begins and ends with "the church".  That's all saved people.  

I guess I was thinking in terms of 1 Cor. 10.32, Jews, Gentiles and the church of God.

[farouk]

5 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Sad and true.

Reminds me of a verse...

So true.  My basic method of determining what is true is to compare what others say with what the Bible says plainly, just like the Bereans did with Paul's preaching in Acts 17:11.  Made a huge difference for me!  

@FreeGrace Like you say, a healthy Berean spirit is so important......

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

The 10 virgins are now watching and waiting. All waiting for the Bridegroom to make his appearance. Will it be in 1 day or 5 years, I don't know. 

One must be ready today for the Bridegroom. Five were wise, five were foolish. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

The BRIDEGROOM CANT come BEFORE the virgins go to buy

OR ELSE HE DOESN'T KNOW WHO TO SHUT THE DOOR ON.  

They have to be PROVEN worthy.  DID they pick up the cross and follow Him


 

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

WE HAVE TO WATCH SO THE THIEF DOESN'T BREAK IN. 

WHO IS OUR THIEF?  SATAN. 

WHO IS THEIR THIEF?  CHRIST
 

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

AND the JUDGMENT WAS SET. 

Have the mark of the beast 


WHAT WE DO KNOW FOR SURE is this parable is NOT SETTING the time for a wedding as NONE ARE SEEN until after the Lords Day.  

If this were, it would be written SOMEWHERE SOME HOW.  

AGAIN, PRE TRIB WOULD NOT ALLOW FOR ALL THE ANGELS TO BE HERE WHEN SATAN IS.  

THE ONLY TIME TO BUYING AND SELLING IS A PROBLEM IS WHEN SATAN IS HERE

ALL OF THEM BEING HERE TELLS US THERE IS NO PRE TRIB IN THIS PARABLE.  







As for being 'ready' at any time?  When we DIE the common death, the saved RISE just like He did, and we go to the judgment seat of Christ.  

ALWAYS BE READY, that comes AT ANY TIME, AND can be completely unexpected



 

[NConly]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Sad and true.

Reminds me of a verse...

So true.  My basic method of determining what is true is to compare what others say with what the Bible says plainly, just like the Bereans did with Paul's preaching in Acts 17:11.  Made a huge difference for me!  

And Acts 17:17