This Has NOT Happened Yet

[Selah7]

There will be a restoration of the whole house of Israel and Judah.  The Lord has promised it and it shall come to pass exactly as He has said.

Ezekiel 28:25-26

Israel’s Future Blessing

25 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “When I have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and am hallowed in them in the sight of the Gentiles, then they will dwell in their own land which I gave to My servant Jacob. 26 And they will dwell safely there, build houses, and plant vineyards; yes, they will dwell securely, when I execute judgments on all those around them who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lordtheir God.” ’ ”

Here is Jeremiah's account:

Jeremiah 23:5-8

5 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord,
“That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and [a]prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the [c]earth.
6 In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell safely;
Now this is His name by which He will be called:

THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

7 “Therefore, behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord, “that they shall no longer say, ‘As the Lord lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ 8 but, ‘As the Lord lives who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country and from all the countries where I had driven them.’ And they shall dwell in their own land.”

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Selah7

[R. Hartono]

3 hours ago, Selah7 said:

There will be a restoration of the whole house of Israel and Judah.  The Lord has promised it and it shall come to pass exactly as He has said.

Ezekiel 28:25-26

Israel’s Future Blessing

25 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “When I have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and am hallowed in them in the sight of the Gentiles, then they will dwell in their own land which I gave to My servant Jacob. 26 And they will dwell safely there, build houses, and plant vineyards; yes, they will dwell securely, when I execute judgments on all those around them who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lordtheir God.” ’ ”

…
Here is Jeremiah's account:

Jeremiah 23:5-8

5 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord,
“That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and [a]prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the [c]earth.
6 In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell safely;
Now this is His name by which He will be called:

THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

7 “Therefore, behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord, “that they shall no longer say, ‘As the Lord lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ 8 but, ‘As the Lord lives who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country and from all the countries where I had driven them.’ And they shall dwell in their own land.”

 

In the Millennium of Christ.

[Selah7]

Mark 13:1 "And as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples saith unto Him, "Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!"

This was the time of the end of Jesus Ministry and Jesus and His disciples were in Jerusalem where Jesus was about to be turned over to the priests, scribes and Pharisees to be tried and crucified.  The disciples had been warned over and over that He would be crucified and that after three days and three nights, He would rise from the dead.  So at this point, the disciples understood from the prophets that there would be another time coming when Jesus would return.  

So the disciples are looking at these great buildings of the temple in Jerusalem…

Mark 13:2 "And Jesus answering said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

This has not happened yet. Many think that this was the time of Titus' destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., however, that event doesn't even compare to the destruction and the tribulation that God describes that will take place at Jesus Christ's return, at the end of this earth age, when the stones that are cast down will be turned to powder.  This will come to pass when Jesus returns at the sounding of the seventh trump.  Those huge stones will be nothing but tiny grains of sand.

[Justin Adams]

Please explain Matthew 24:21: "[F]or then shall be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be. Premillennialists claim that this prophecy cannot refer to the destruction of Jerusalem, since there have been “tribulations” much greater than those suffered in Jerusalem during the Roman invasion (A.D. 70). For example, the German holocaust of World War II involved many more people than those who died in A.D. 70. Therefore, this passage (they say) must have reference to a “great tribulation” in connection with the second coming of Christ. Please comment on this.

Preliminary to a consideration of this passage, we would encourage our readers to consult A Study of Matthew Twenty-Four. That essay will lay a significant foundation that will help in putting the present passage into proper focus. Having said that, the following points are crucial to understanding Matthew 24:21.

This Generation

The larger context of this chapter limits the descriptives of Matthew 24:5-22 to the generation contemporary with Christ. Jesus plainly said that “this generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished” (Mt. 24:34).

The term “generation” (Greek genea) basically refers to “the sum total of those born at the same time,” i.e., “all [those] living at a given time” (see Arndt and Gingrich 1967, 153; Thayer 1958, 112). The expression “this generation” restricts the focus of the passage to the people living at that time (cf. Mt. 11:16; 12:41-42; 23:36).

Jerusalem

The immediate context limits the horror of the destruction to the circumstances of ancient Jerusalem. Note that after the Lord’s admonition, relative to fleeing from Jerusalem (in winter or on the Sabbath), Christ says “for then [at that time (cf. Arndt and Gringrich, 831; Thayer, 629)] shall be great tribulation.” Thus Jesus specifies the time—it was near, not remote.

Not the Last Day

The text cannot refer to a tribulation at the end of time, otherwise Christ would not have said “nor ever shall be.” The Lord’s return will signal “the end” (see 1 Cor. 15:24) of earthly affairs (see 2 Peter 3:4ff). That day will be the “last day” (cf. Jn. 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24; 12:48).

It would hardly make sense to use the expression “nor ever shall be” when referring to an event that is proximate to the very end of the world itself.

Hyperbolic Language Possible

There is a possibility that the language contains some degree of hyperbole for the purpose of emphasis. Such is common to biblical literature (cf. Jn. 21:25). However, one is not forced to that view. There is ample evidence that the destruction of Jerusalem actually conforms to Matthew’s descriptive.

Emphasizing Intensity

The terminology is designed to emphasize the nature of the carnage, the intensity of the event, and not the mere numbers per se.

First, it describes a punishment upon the Jews. It was the worst event in their history. It represented the death of Israel nationally! Though the holocaust involved larger numbers, the type of suffering inflicted at Jerusalem was unparalleled in history. The acute famine, the in-fighting, the cannibalism, the savagery, the crucifixions, etc., were horrible beyond words.

Even Josephus commented that “the misfortunes of all men, from the beginning of the world, if they be compared to these of the Jews [at the destruction of Jerusalem], are not so considerable as they were” (Wars of the Jews, Preface, 4). The Jewish historian certainly was aware of numerous destructions prior to A.D. 70, even those portrayed in the Old Testament (including the flood). Yet Jerusalem’s misery eclipsed even that.

Several scholars have commented upon this.

Other sieges may have witnessed, before and since, scenes of physical wretchedness equally appalling, but nothing that history records offers anything parallel to the alternations of fanatic hope and frenzied despair that attended the breaking up of the faith and polity of Israel (Plumptre 1959, 148).

No nation had ever piled up a guilt such as that of the Jews who were chosen of God, infinitely blessed, and yet crucified God’s Son and trampled upon all his further grace. No judgment had ever and can ever be so severe. In the history of the world no judgment can be compared with this that wiped out the Jews as a nation (Lenski 1943, 940).

[The] tribulation to Israel [was] unparalleled in the terrible past of its history, and unequalled even in its bloody future. Nay, so dreadful would be the persecution, that, if Divine mercy had not interposed for the sake of the followers of Christ, the whole Jewish race that inhabited the land would have been swept away" (Edersheim 1947, 449).

Matthew 24:21 does not refer to the end of time. Its application, based upon all contextual considerations, was to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70.

As supplementary reading, I would recommend an excellent volume by J. Marcellus Kik, Matthew XXIV. It contains an excellent discussion of this matter.

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/342-was-the-siege-at-jerusalem-in-a-d-70-the-worst-in-world-history

Edited June 23, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Selah7]

Here is my understanding of the events in Matthew 24, @Justin Adams.  I know we don’t agree and I’m truly sorry.  We can still be friends, though. 
 

Matthew 24

[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

“For then” when?  When you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place where "he" ought not, that is when the greatest spiritual tribulation to ever occur in this flesh age will take place.  Daniel the prophet, to whom Christ Himself has referred us, tells us that this time of great trouble (tribulation) begins when Michael stands up, and as Rev. 12:7-9 tells us, casts Satan out of heaven to this earth.

Daniel 12:1 
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Rev. 12:7-9 gives us the details of what happens when Michael stands up.

Rev. 12:7-9 
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

So the second beast of Rev. 13:11 comes looking like a lamb but speaking like a dragon.  Both he (Satan) and his angels will be cast to this earth by Michael and his angels.  And that is when all of the (spiritual) tribulation will begin.

Christ tells us in the next verse that the Father has shortened the time Satan will be here standing in the holy place, spreading his lies and taking away communion to the true Christ by deceiving the people into believing he is Christ and receiving it unto himself.

Matthew 24:22 
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Selah7

[Desopixi Seilynam]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

The text cannot refer to a tribulation at the end of time, otherwise Christ would not have said “nor ever shall be.”

That statement makes no sense at all.

'nor ever shall be' means there will be none else like it.
So if it happens at the end of time, then there can be none else like it, which is perfectly in line with what Christ said.

"ye shall be hated of all nations for my name sake."

And that has not happened yet, there are still Christian nations in the world now.
 

[Selah7]

We can also look to the future where we find written in Rev. 21 that when the salvation plan of the plan of God is completed at the end of the Millennium, He shall come and dwell with His children/us and we shall inherit all things.

Rev 21:

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Selah7

[Selah7]

7 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

This Generation

The larger context of this chapter limits the descriptives of Matthew 24:5-22 to the generation contemporary with Christ. Jesus plainly said that “this generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished” (Mt. 24:34).

The term “generation” (Greek genea) basically refers to “the sum total of those born at the same time,” i.e., “all [those] living at a given time” (see Arndt and Gingrich 1967, 153; Thayer 1958, 112). The expression “this generation” restricts the focus of the passage to the people living at that time (cf. Mt. 11:16; 12:41-42; 23:36).

@Justin Adams  Here is what the disciples asked Jesus Christ when they came to Him privately.

Mark 13:3  And as He sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately, [4] Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Mark 13:28  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

[29]  So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

[30] Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Christ shall return during the generation that began when the branch of the fig tree was set out.  “On May 14, 1948, on the day in which the British Mandate over a Palestine expired, the Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum, and approved the following proclamation, declaring the establishment of the State of Israel.”

[31] Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

[WilliamL]

10 hours ago, Selah7 said:

So the disciples are looking at these great buildings of the temple in Jerusalem…

Mark 13:2 "And Jesus answering said unto him, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

This has not happened yet. Many think that this was the time of Titus' destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

No, you are wrong. What Titus did not fully destroy in 70 A.D. Hadrian did during the Bar Kokhba revolt. Completely. He erased Jerusalem so thoroughly that nothing was left.

[Selah7]

17 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

No, you are wrong. What Titus did not fully destroy in 70 A.D. Hadrian did during the Bar Kokhba revolt. Completely. He erased Jerusalem so thoroughly that nothing was left.

I don’t agree because here in Mark 13, we’re seeing prophecy.