Israel in Prophesy (still future vs 1948)

[OneLight]

On 7/16/2021 at 7:57 PM, OneLight said:

1948 is when Israel became a nation, or in other words, when the fig tree bloomed.  Peace and safety, if I am assuming you meaning correctly, will not come until the 7 years covenant is signed, brought in by the antichrist.

 

12 hours ago, dad2 said:

No. The issue is when God will bring them back. That is future.

 

9 hours ago, OneLight said:

Didn't God begin the process when He brought Israel back into being a nation?  Are we just suppose to ignore His hand in this and say "that's nothing, wait for more"?

 

8 hours ago, dad2 said:

No. He allowed them to be a nation, but if He gathers them after the vengeance then the time is not yet. Israel needed to be a nation for the prophesies to be true. How else can someone invade Israel and etc? But apparently the time when God brings them back is after His day of vengeance. It will be THEN that their enemies will be crushed. It will be THEN that they dwell safely, etc. etc.  I do not think it is right to try and claim all those things (Israel is brought to the land by God and dwells safely etc) in prophesy already mostly happened. You know, asking people to support the secular nation, and believe God already brought them back there. God only does all that AFTER they repent and get saved.

Kind of brings us in a circle doesn't it?  I do believe it was Gods will that Israel become a nation in 1058 and that Israel will not have peace until the covenant is signed at the beginning of the tribulation, as I stated in my first response above.  You should take notice that I never claimed they are at peace now. 

[dad2]

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

 

 

 

Kind of brings us in a circle doesn't it?  I do believe it was Gods will that Israel become a nation in 1058 and that Israel will not have peace until the covenant is signed at the beginning of the tribulation, as I stated in my first response above.  You should take notice that I never claimed they are at peace now. 

The peace and safety that God will bring after He brings them back to the land has nothing to do with the seven year period, it is after. Just like the enemies of Israel will not be destroyed until after that vengeance. That never happened yet and certainly not in the 1940ies!

[AandW_Rootbeer]

In 67-73 A.D.Jerusalem was trodden down by the Gentiles.  Daniel's Aod was fulfilled with the End of Daily Sacrifice.

In 1948 till current day, the End of the Gentile Reign in Jerusalem has clearly ran its course.

Israel is an Independent Nation with an Air force literally second to none.

And, there are more Jews coming to Christ in the form of Messianic Jews than at any other point in history.

 

Now, we are waiting for the final Acts of God's Wrath, God's gathering of those who still REMAIN, Armageddon, 1,000 year physical kingdom set up spoken in Daniel 7 after the Beast is killed by God, Satan loosed for a short period of time, Great White Throne Judgement where the Books are Read, Eternity.

 

[WilliamL]

4 hours ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

In 1948 till current day, the End of the Gentile Reign in Jerusalem has clearly ran its course.

Israel is an Independent Nation with an Air force literally second to none.

And, there are more Jews coming to Christ in the form of Messianic Jews than at any other point in history.

But the Temple Mount is still under the control of the Waqf, that is, Gentiles.

[OneLight]

6 hours ago, dad2 said:

The peace and safety that God will bring after He brings them back to the land has nothing to do with the seven year period, it is after. Just like the enemies of Israel will not be destroyed until after that vengeance. That never happened yet and certainly not in the 1940ies!

Any mention of peace and safety in scripture is in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11, where it does say in verse 3 "For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape."  The only other time it is indicated is after the Great White Throne Judgment and before the arrival of the New Jerusalem where sin become no more.  I'm not sure why you feel its important to keep saying it's not in the 40's, or something similar.  Nobody ever said that.

[dad2]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

Any mention of peace and safety in scripture is in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11, where it does say in verse 3 "For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape."  The only other time it is indicated is after the Great White Throne Judgment and before the arrival of the New Jerusalem where sin become no more.  I'm not sure why you feel its important to keep saying it's not in the 40's, or something similar.  Nobody ever said that.

No. The fact that God will keep them safe and destroy their enemies is prophesy. 

 

Jer 23:3Then I Myself will gather the remnant of My flock from all the lands to which I have banished them, and I will return them to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and multiply. 4I will raise up shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or dismayed, nor will any go missing, declares the LORD.

Ezekiel 28:25-26

“Thus says the Lord God: When I gather the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and manifest my holiness in them in the sight of the nations, then they shall dwell in their own land that I gave to my servant Jacob. And they shall dwell securely in it, and they shall build houses and plant vineyards. They shall dwell securely, when I execute judgments upon all their neighbors who have treated them with contempt. Then they will know that I am the Lord their God.”

Ezekiel 34:13

And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them into their own land. And I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the ravines, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

Ezekiel 37:21-25    

Say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations and no longer be divided into two kingdoms. They will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people, and I will be their God

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Land-Permanently-Restored-To-Israel

--etc

 

This is all after Jesus returns and rules the world. That is when He brings them back. Many people seem to like to claim that God brought them back in 1948.  The peace and safety in the great trib is a false peace. That is not what God is talking about in prophesy when He brings them back. That is not after the great white throne judgment either! 

And yes many say that! So don't claim nobody says that.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by dad2

[dad2]

8 hours ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

In 67-73 A.D.Jerusalem was trodden down by the Gentiles.  Daniel's Aod was fulfilled with the End of Daily Sacrifice.

In 1948 till current day, the End of the Gentile Reign in Jerusalem has clearly ran its course.

Israel is an Independent Nation with an Air force literally second to none.

And, there are more Jews coming to Christ in the form of Messianic Jews than at any other point in history.

 

Now, we are waiting for the final Acts of God's Wrath, God's gathering of those who still REMAIN, Armageddon, 1,000 year physical kingdom set up spoken in Daniel 7 after the Beast is killed by God, Satan loosed for a short period of time, Great White Throne Judgement where the Books are Read, Eternity.

 

Let me guess all the water on earth turned to blood then also, and all trees were burned up, and the antichrist ruled, and all the stars went out as well as the sun? Ha

The air force in Israel does not give them peace! Total canard. Having a small percentage of Jews convert to Jesus is not 'all Israel shall be saved'! 

[OneLight]

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

Any mention of peace and safety in scripture is in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11, where it does say in verse 3 "For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape."  The only other time it is indicated is after the Great White Throne Judgment and before the arrival of the New Jerusalem where sin become no more.  I'm not sure why you feel its important to keep saying it's not in the 40's, or something similar.  Nobody ever said that.

 

28 minutes ago, dad2 said:

No. The fact that God will keep them safe and destroy their enemies is prophesy. 

So, what do you do about what Paul said about peace and safety in 1 Thessalonians 5?  Ignore it?  It's also prophecy as it has not happened yet.

[dad2]

54 minutes ago, OneLight said:

 

So, what do you do about what Paul said about peace and safety in 1 Thessalonians 5?  Ignore it?  It's also prophecy as it has not happened yet.

Yes it is prophesy and also still in the future. It is part of the description of that last several years. That is not the time when God will bring a saved Israel back to the land! That would be, as stated several times here already, AFTER the vengeance. All we need to do is remember the proper times involved in the prophesy. In this case the particular prophesies about when God brings Israel back. I have heard people (most recently Jack Hibbs & co and jean Merkel etc) talking about how God brought His people back there is 1948 and now they are in safety, peace, desert blooming like a rose etc etc etc. Furthermore they make this issue a big deal and a priority. When I wrote them asking about it, I got no reply. So I raised the issue here to see if someone could mount a real biblical case or not. So far..no.

[AandW_Rootbeer]

19 hours ago, WilliamL said:

But the Temple Mount is still under the control of the Waqf, that is, Gentiles.

The 3rd Temple has no bearing on future prophecy.