Christian and Holy Spirit

[Hopefully]

“When you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and you were raised up with him because of your faith in God’s power. God’s power was shown when he raised Christ from death.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭

 

 

 

[David1701]

46 minutes ago, Chicken coop2 said:

Born of water simply means the physical first birth we have and nothing to do with baptism.  The date on your birth certificate is the date you were born of water.

Yes, this is right.  The phrase "born of water" is a Hebraism, referring to natural birth.

Water baptism (immersion) is an act of obedience (symbolising our identification with the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord), for the already saved Christian; in fact, you have to make a confession of faith in Jesus Christ, in order to be baptised.

Acts 8:36-38 (MEV)

36 As they went on their way, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” He answered, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” 38 And he commanded the chariot to halt. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

[Selah7]

Our salvation is all GRACE.  
 

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 

. . .

Strong's Concordance

charis: grace, kindness

Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Definition: grace, kindness
Usage: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 5485 xáris (another feminine noun from xar-, "favor, disposed to, inclined, favorable towards, leaning towards to share benefit") – properly, grace.  5485 (xáris) is preeminently used of the Lord's favor – freely extended to give Himself away to people (because He is "always leaning toward them").

5485 /xáris ("grace") answers directly to the Hebrew (OT) term 2580 /Kaná ("grace, extension-toward"). Both refer to God freely extending Himself (His favor, grace), reaching (inclining) to people because He is disposed to bless (be near) them.

[5485 (xáris) is sometimes rendered "thanks" but the core-idea is "favor, grace" ("extension towards").]

 

 

[Riverwalker]

9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Its more than just salvation issue because when Holy Spirit baptize people they will be speaking in tongue/Glosolalia because God has His purpose to control our tongues

But the Purpose of speaking in tongues is not to control our tongues, but to edify us and as a sign to others

1 Corinthians 15: 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; [a]for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

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13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?

[Alive]

When I got saved at 19, I read the scriptures as pointed out to me by my new brethren---we went down to the lake and I was baptised. It was such a simple thing to see.

The desire for obedience was palpable and then some. It was fabulously wonderful.

[Bro.Tan]

On 7/19/2021 at 10:58 PM, Kot said:

People say, for many reasons, that they are Christians. However, to be a full Christian one must Believe in Jesus Christ, be baptized in water, and finally, receive the Holy Spirit (John 3: 5-8). These are the three things that certify one to be called a Christian. Many people believed in Jesus Christian and were baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ but they did not receive the Holy Spirit. 

Now many of you out there can point out as many bible texts to say that we have received the Holy Spirit but I would like to bring a few texts together that support that we have not received the Holy Spirit thus we are yet to be confirmed as Christian. Now, some of you may disagree with me and I accept your opinion but please consider my views and the text that support the views. 

First of all, we must believe that Jesus Christ is our savior who saved us from our sins in our heart ( and they are much text that supports this). After believing in Jesus Christ, one must be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ ( also many text support this which I am not putting it up). Finally, one must receive the Holy Spirit to be called a full Christian ( John 3: 5-8).

 Jesus promised his disciples that he will send to them a helper which is the Holy Spirit (John 14: 16-17) and the people of the world can not receive it, know, and see. The disciples only will receive the Holy Spirit.

Before Jesus went up to heaven he asked his disciples to go to Jerusalem and stay there and they must not go out unless they receive Holy Spirit that he will send to them  (Luke 24: 49). This means after they receive the Holy Spirit they will go out otherwise they will not. 

Jesus sends to them the Holy Spirit (act 33: 3; act 1; 1-4 and act 2_ 1-4). 

From Jerusalem, the apostles heard that some of the people in Samaria believed in Jesus Christ so they sent Peter and John which means the apostles had already received the Holy Spirit thus they went out leaving Jerusalem, (Acts 8: 14).

Peter and John went out and prayed for the Samaritan believers to receive the Holy Spirit. This means that when Holy Spirit first came down the believers in Samaria did not receive the Holy Spirit. 

In verse 16 it says; "These people had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, but the Holy Spirit had not yet come down on any of them. This is why Peter and John prayed." this means that they heard the good news, they believed in Jesus Christ and they baptized in water but they did not receive the Holy Spirit when the holy spirit came down. 

Acts 8 verse 16 gives the full meaning of John 14 verses 16 to 17 which says people of the world will not know, see and receive the Holy Spirit but only the apostles will. verse 17 says only when the apostles prayed for them (people) did they receive the Holy Spirit. 

Paul did the same things in Ephesus as Peter and John. Paul asks the people that did they receive the Holy Spirit when they believe. The people replied and said they have not heard of the Holy Spirit. Then he asked them what baptism did they receive. They replied to Paul and said, John's baptism, which is the water baptism. This means that they had not received the Holy Spirit when the people heard the good news, believe in Jesus Christ, and Baptize in water. Only when the time the apostles prayed for the people they have received the Holy Spirit.

As indicated in the above scripture, the apostles were given the work of praying for the people so that they could receive the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit was only given to the Apostles and not everyone, (John 14: 16-17). However, when persecution spread (Acts 11: 19), most of the apostles have been killed, (acts 7: 57-60; Acts 8: 1-3).

In Antioch, people were arguing with the apostles ( acts 15: 1-18) and they decided to wrote letters, Acts 15: 19: "19 “So I think we should not make things hard for those who have turned to God from among the non-Jewish people. 20 Instead, we should send a letter telling them only the things they should not do:.". Paul, Peter, John, and other apostle hide and begin to write the letter which we now see in the Bible the letters they wrote which makes up the news testament. 

We do know the apostles died, however, the Good news spread to the world but the work of the Holy Spirit the apostles carry out did not spread.

Now in my opinion today, people in the world who heard the Good news, believe in Jesus Christ, and were baptized in water did not receive the Holy Spirit to fully become Christians and enter the Kingdome of God, (John 3: 5-8). therefore, some still ask questions about Holy Spirit and about becoming Christians. 

In my opinion, I believe that the work of the Holy Spirit will begin in the last days. However, before I go ahead and support my view with bible texts, I would like to receive your opinion.

Before you give your opinion, you may try to give many explaining to convince me or the audience that we have received the Holy Spirit despite the above text and views that I have laid out, but I have gone through all the bible text that you will provide from Geneses to Revelation over and over. I have also used many Christian blogs and google searches to search individual words such as Christina and Holy Spirit over and over and I understanding them. You may give your best explanation from many different angles but I have gone through all of them and I refer to the above views that I have provided.

 Thank you. 

 

Pay close attention to Jesus is saying in John 20: 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. So now let’s get an example of how to do this Sisters and Brothers.

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38). 

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus. 

 

"And it came to pass, that, while Apollo was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.” And he said unto them, "unto what then were ye baptized?" And they said unto John's baptism. 

Then Paul said, “John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, Jesus Christ.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve." (Acts 19:1-7). 

Notice Paul had laid hand upon them, and then the Holy Ghost came on them. Meaning a prayer should be said right after the baptism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[R. Hartono]

22 hours ago, appy said:

The definition of who Jesus is to an individual is very important,

 

Indeed, thats why John the Baptist speaks about :

Matt 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
 

The Jesus that John refer to is still baptizing people with Holy Spirit. Otherwise He was just history.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by R. Hartono

[R. Hartono]

15 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

But the Purpose of speaking in tongues is not to control our tongues, but to edify us and as a sign to others

 

Those who let Holy Spirit control their tongue will be able control their body as tongue is the steering wheel.

James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

1 Cor 15:4 .... He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself

Edited July 22, 2021 by R. Hartono

[R. Hartono]

15 hours ago, Alive said:

When I got saved at 19, I read the scriptures as pointed out to me by my new brethren---we went down to the lake and I was baptised. It was such a simple thing to see.

The desire for obedience was palpable and then some. It was fabulously wonderful.

We need HolySpirit to take over our burden in the tribulation of life.

Rome 8:26 .... for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

1 Cor 15:4 .... He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself

[R. Hartono]

17 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said:

Born of water simply means the physical first birth we have and nothing to do with baptism.  The date on your birth certificate is the date you were born of water.

If thats so then you can show your birth certificate to enter God's kingdom.

You were birthed in sin heritage and doesnt inherit the kingdom of God with your physical deliverance from a womb.

“Jesus answered, “Believe me when I say that everyone must be born from water and the Spirit. Anyone who is not born from water and the Spirit cannot enter God’s kingdom.” ‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭