Why waste the energy?

[irishcowboy]

you may have a relationship with the Lord, a personal relationship..... that is great.

but now,

The Bible says, there is only one way to the Father, and that is thru Jesus....

there is no other way... NONE......

as far as judging others, the Word of God has already done that.....

if a person does not have Jesus, they are lost...... that is all there is to it.....

if we were able to do it by any other method, works, purchasing, or other things, then the death of Christ would have been totally useless.....

think about it....

why did Christ die? that is if we can get to the Kingdom of God by working our way there? or by purchasing our way? or just being "good".......

being there are none good, save the Father, how can we say some one is good enough to make it on their own????

the provision for the knowledge of God has been in this world from the very first day.....

here is a little know fact......

in Ireland (if i remember correctly, in the area of Tyrone, ) ( my families mother land ) many years ago, one of the chieftains seen the sky turn black and asked his gazers, his advisors what this meant..... these people are pagan..... ( non-Christian/non-jew) .... his advisors told him that a man had just been put to death, and that this man was a good man, and had done no wrong.... this chieftain took off to avenge this mans death.... he was traveling towards Jerusalem.....

I am sorry, i do not have this book with me at this time, my sister has it 3 hours away from here..... that person being put to death was Jesus......all people had the chance to follow Gods wishes.... each and every one....

how so???

well, considering that all people that are now alive came from Noah and his sons, Noah had a personal relationship with the Lord.....

Abraham had a wonderful relationship with the Lord, and both Ishmal and Isaac were given promises... the Lord kept His side of the bargain, but the boys families did not.....

one thing too, that really is not a good thing......

the catholic church, took my father away..... i do not have a father..... thats right... being that my mother and father divorced, and in order for my father to remain a "member" he had to do the annulment thing... which then made it so that the marriage never took place and if the marriage never took place that meant he had no children and made all of us kids bastards......

now... most people want to see their children from time to time.....

not this man.... he was faithful to confession, he made confession.... and he did his penance, but never repented..... he never visited his kids.... never..... one of his kids was 6 months old, and well, when this man died, the youngest was in is 20's and he had never seen him since 6 months.... in fact, he had grand kids he never even knew he had.... what a waste.. .... the blessings he gave up so he could continue living the reprobate life and hit confession once a week to do his penance...

one thing about the rcc, is that divorce is unforgivable..... so they cover it up by changing its name and calling it something else, but there are rules about that even.....

so, in order to live in the rcc, and be divorced, you have to live a lie and say you are not divorced only annulled...... then it is ok.. .but you have to give up everything from that non-marriage to say it is an annulment....

live a lie, that is what that is about...... penance or repentance?

penanc, you can do it again and only have to pay the fine ( work or money )

repentance, you wont be doing it again, so that is the end of it.....

penance is like getting there by works..... rather then grace.....

mike

[Pax]

you may have a relationship with the Lord, a personal relationship..... that is great.

but now,

The Bible says, there is only one way to the Father, and that is thru Jesus....

there is no other way... NONE......

as far as judging others, the Word of God has already done that.....

if a person does not have Jesus, they are lost...... that is all there is to it.....

if we were able to do it by any other method, works, purchasing, or other things, then the death of Christ  would have been totally useless.....

think about it....

why did Christ die? that is if we can get to the Kingdom of God by working our way there? or by purchasing our way? or just being "good".......

being there are none good, save the Father, how can we say some one is good enough to make it on their own????

the provision for the knowledge of God has been in this world from the very first day.....

here is a little know fact......

in Ireland (if i remember correctly, in the area of Tyrone, )  ( my families mother land ) many years ago, one of the chieftains seen the sky turn black and asked his gazers, his advisors what this meant..... these people are pagan..... ( non-Christian/non-jew) .... his advisors told him that a man had just been put to death, and that this man was a good man, and had done no wrong....  this chieftain took off to avenge this mans death.... he was traveling towards Jerusalem.....

I am sorry, i do not have this book with me at this time, my sister has it 3 hours away from here..... that person being put to death was Jesus......all people had the chance to follow Gods wishes.... each and every one....

how so???

well, considering that all people that are now alive came from Noah and his sons, Noah had a personal relationship with the Lord.....

Abraham had a wonderful relationship with the Lord, and both Ishmal and Isaac were given promises... the Lord kept His side of the bargain, but the boys families did not..... 

one thing too, that really is not a good thing......

the catholic church, took my father away..... i do not have a father.....  thats right... being that my mother and father divorced, and in order for my father to remain a "member" he had to do the annulment thing... which then made it so that the marriage never took place and if the marriage never took place that meant he had no children and made all of us kids bastards......

now... most people want to see their children from time to time.....

not this man.... he was faithful to confession, he made confession.... and he did his penance, but never repented..... he never visited his kids.... never..... one of his kids was 6 months old, and well, when this man died, the youngest was in is 20's and he had never seen him since 6 months.... in fact, he had grand kids he never even knew he had.... what a waste.. ....  the blessings he gave up so he could continue living the reprobate life and hit confession once a week to do his penance... 

one thing about the rcc, is that divorce is unforgivable..... so they cover it up by changing its name and calling it something else, but there are rules about that even..... 

so, in order to live in the rcc, and be divorced, you have to live a lie and say you are not divorced only annulled......  then it is ok.. .but you have to give up everything from that non-marriage to say it is an annulment....

live a lie, that is what that is about...... penance or repentance?

penanc, you can do it again and only have to pay the fine ( work or money )

repentance, you wont be doing it again, so that is the end of it.....

penance is like getting there by works.....  rather then grace.....

mike

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mike,

I am very sorry to hear about your father, but I need to clear a few things up here. If Catholics civilally divorce (this means the state recognizes the divorce and property/children are divided and awarded) the Church will not recognize the divorce unless it has been reviewed by a Catholic Church tribunal. After a lengthy process were written and oral statements are made from both parties, along with wittnesses, the Church will rule whether or not this marriage was a valid sacremental bond. If it wasn't (there is criteria that must be met) then each party is free to remarry in the Catholic since this wasn't considered a valid marriage in the eyes of the Church and God. If it was a valid marriage, than the couple is married for life and nothing can break this Sacramental bond. If one or both parties remarries than they are commiting adultry since we can't be married to two different people. If the marriage is valid and the parties are civially divorced this doesn't mean that they aren't still in good standing with the Church. They can both still receive communion as long as they are not dating or married to another person. I need to also clear something up here. Children born during the marriage are valid and not considered bastards as some incorrectly think. It was assumed that the marriage was valid at the time of birth. This area can get kind of technical, but remember that marriage is considered one of the 7 Sacraments of the Catholic Church. If a couple who has a valid marriage wished to remarry they cannot do so in the Catholic Church. As I stated earlier in the eyes of God we can't be in a valid marriage to more than one person.

Mike I truely am sorry but please don't blame the Catholic Church for your father making a very bad choice.

[Tari]

Hey Pax,

What about in the case of adultery? My husband's first wife did this on purpose, so he would divorce her. They were not Catholic. Now if that was considered a real marriage in the eyes of the Catholic Church, was he allowed to marry me later on?

Hey check out my new signature, it takes you right to the website! Cool, huh?

[ayin jade]

I love art. Ive seen the sistine chapel. Your link concerns me Tari....

His raised right hand compels the figures on the lefthand side, who are trying to ascend, to be plunged down towards Charon and Minos, the Judge of the Underworld; while his left hand is drawing up the chosen people on his right in an irresistible current of strength.

Who is the Judge? Certainly not a false god. Charon and Minos are greek (or maybe roman, they are almost interchangable) mythology. What place do they have in anything depicting our Lord?

[Tari]

I love art. Ive seen the sistine chapel. Your link concerns me Tari....

His raised right hand compels the figures on the lefthand side, who are trying to ascend, to be plunged down towards Charon and Minos, the Judge of the Underworld; while his left hand is drawing up the chosen people on his right in an irresistible current of strength.

Who is the Judge? Certainly not a false god. Charon and Minos are greek (or maybe roman, they are almost interchangable) mythology. What place do they have in anything depicting our Lord?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was curious about that also when I read it? I asked in another thread if anyone had studied this, and no replies so far from anyone. So are you saying that Michelangelo is portraying a false god? Because surely Christ is the center of the painting being the judge.

[ayin jade]

Charon:

Charon, in Greek mythology, is the ferryman of the dead. The souls of the deceased are brought to him by Hermes, and Charon ferries them across the river Acheron. He only accepts the dead which are buried or burned with the proper rites, and if they pay him an obolus (coin) for their passage. For that reason a corpse had always an obolus 1 placed under the tongue.

Those who cannot afford the passage, or are not admitted by Charon, are doomed to wander on the banks of the Styx for a hundred years. Living persons who wish to go to the underworld need a golden bough obtained from the Cumaean Sibyl. Charon is the son of Erebus and Nyx. He is depicted as an sulky old man, or as a winged demon carrying a double hammer. He is similar to the Etruscan (Charun).

Minos:

The legendary king of Crete, son of Zeus and the Phoenician princess Europa. Minos and his two brothers, Rhadamanthys and Sarpedon, were raised in the royal palace of Cnossus. Minos married Pasiphae, daughter of the sun-god Helios. Some of their children were Phaedra, Ariadne, and Andregeos.

In mythology, a dispute over the sovereignty of Crete led Minos to ask Poseidon for help. He asked the god to send an offering as a sign of his true kingship. The god of the sea sent a gleaming pure white bull, which emerged miraculously from the waves. This confirmed to all concerned that Minos was their true king. However, as soon as King Minos saw this magnificent beast he refused to sacrifice it to Poseidon, and replaced it with another.

If that is who Michelangelo painted in that scene, then he did portray false gods, mythology. This is not something I was aware of until I saw your link. Such a thing might encourage people today to regard the bible in the same way as the greek mythology. A dangerous thing.

Our Lord is very real. One day every knee will bow. They will all recognize Him. Hopefully not before it is too late for their eternal destination.

[Tari]

Charon:

Charon, in Greek mythology, is the ferryman of the dead. The souls of the deceased are brought to him by Hermes, and Charon ferries them across the river Acheron. He only accepts the dead which are buried or burned with the proper rites, and if they pay him an obolus (coin) for their passage. For that reason a corpse had always an obolus 1 placed under the tongue.

Those who cannot afford the passage, or are not admitted by Charon, are doomed to wander on the banks of the Styx for a hundred years. Living persons who wish to go to the underworld need a golden bough obtained from the Cumaean Sibyl. Charon is the son of Erebus and Nyx. He is depicted as an sulky old man, or as a winged demon carrying a double hammer. He is similar to the Etruscan (Charun).

Minos:

The legendary king of Crete, son of Zeus and the Phoenician princess Europa. Minos and his two brothers, Rhadamanthys and Sarpedon, were raised in the royal palace of Cnossus. Minos married Pasiphae, daughter of the sun-god Helios. Some of their children were Phaedra, Ariadne, and Andregeos.

In mythology, a dispute over the sovereignty of Crete led Minos to ask Poseidon for help. He asked the god to send an offering as a sign of his true kingship. The god of the sea sent a gleaming pure white bull, which emerged miraculously from the waves. This confirmed to all concerned that Minos was their true king. However, as soon as King Minos saw this magnificent beast he refused to sacrifice it to Poseidon, and replaced it with another.

If that is who Michelangelo painted in that scene, then he did portray false gods, mythology. This is not something I was aware of until I saw your link. Such a thing might encourage people today to regard the bible in the same way as the greek mythology. A dangerous thing.

Our Lord is very real. One day every knee will bow. They will all recognize Him. Hopefully not before it is too late for their eternal destination.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it looks like end times madness has been around for many many years. Look at all the false lies being spread around today about end times. Take for instance belief in the rapture and once saved always saved doctrines. You're considered a complete outcast if you do not believe in these lies today.

[HisWordIsSufficient]

MR & MRS MIKE IRISH:

GREAT post!

[ayin jade]

Well it looks like end times madness has been around for many many years. Look at all the false lies being spread around today about end times. Take for instance belief in the rapture and once saved always saved doctrines. You're considered a complete outcast if you do not believe in these lies today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We are warned many times to compare things to scripture. You believe those are lies, and I do not. Those things can be debated on another thread or two. There is no mistaking that Charon and Minos are not scriptural. That Michelangelo painted them and showed Christ sending the condemned to hell to be judged by them, is not in the bible. That is combining mythology and scripture. That is dangerous.

[Pax]

Hey Pax,

What about in the case of adultery? My husband's first wife did this on purpose, so he would divorce her. They were not Catholic. Now if that was considered a real marriage in the eyes of the Catholic Church, was he allowed to marry me later on?

Hey check out my new signature, it takes you right to the website! Cool, huh?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will tell you what I know on the matter, but as always you need to refer to a Priest who has been trained on what the Church teaches. The Catholic Church does not teach that in the case of adultery, this automatically is a case for an invalid marriage. Many people will tell you that in scripture, if one party sleeps with another person, than this is o.k. for divorce. They will site what Moses said in the old testament. But I would tell them to look and see what Christ said about divorce in the new testament. Look up Mal 2:14-16, Mt 5:32-33, Mt 19:4-6,9, Mk 10:11-12, Lk 16:18.

We must also take into account that Christ taught us to forgive one another. Even as hard as it may seem, we are called to forgive an unfaithful spouse. But with all that said, a spouse that is having adultress relationships, especially if this is cronic and happens over and over again, than this will be taken into account during the tribunal process. Other areas that to look into to think about whether a marriage would be valid or not is if a person or couple was forced into marriage. This would be like the old "shotgun" wedding. My duaghter is pregnant so now you will marry her scenerio. Marriage must be of both parties free will. Age makes a difference. If a couple is married at 18, they are less likely to truely understand what marriage is all about, compared to a 30 year old person. This would also fall under the lack of maturity. Where one gets married. If you are married in las Vegas in front of a singing Elvis compared to being married in a Church makes a difference. It doesn't matter if one is married in the Catholic or Baptist Church. The Church will have to review the marriage to see if it is valid. The Church recognizes that Protestants of course can have valid marriages. But each case is different and this is why one would have to sit down with a priest and then present the facts to a tribunal within each Diocese.