Joel's Prophecies and the Day of the LORD

[Marilyn C]

21 hours ago, not an echo said:

To your question:

 

 

Yes not an echo,

I hear what you are saying, however in Joel there I no IF you do this etc, but God saying -

`I will remove far from you....`

`Fear not O land be glad and rejoice for the Lord has done marvellous things!...

`I will restore to you the years...`

`my people shall never be put to shame, then you will know that I am in the midst of Israel... `

`I will pour out my Spirit.....` 

`I will show wonders in the heavens...`

(Joel 2: 20 - 30)

All about what God is prophesying He will do. 

[not an echo]

On 10/6/2021 at 5:17 PM, Marilyn C said:

On 10/5/2021 at 7:52 PM, not an echo said:

To your question:

 

 

Yes not an echo,

I hear what you are saying, however in Joel there I no IF you do this etc, but God saying -

`I will remove far from you....`

`Fear not O land be glad and rejoice for the Lord has done marvellous things!...

`I will restore to you the years...`

`my people shall never be put to shame, then you will know that I am in the midst of Israel... `

`I will pour out my Spirit.....` 

`I will show wonders in the heavens...`

(Joel 2: 20 - 30)

All about what God is prophesying He will do. 

The key Marilyn is wrapped up in the word "Then" in Joel 2:

 18  THEN will the LORD be jealous for His land, and pity His people.

The same with the age old promise that God gave to Solomon concerning such a time.  Remember?  From II Chronicles 7:

 14  If My people, which are called by My name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways;  THEN will I hear from Heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Also, it may have been a simple oversight (I do the same thing sometimes, especially if I'm sleepy ), but the reference section you give "(Joel 2: 20 - 30)" does not start early enough, and continues too far...

Edited February 6, 2023 by not an echo

[Marilyn C]

On 10/7/2021 at 3:53 PM, not an echo said:

The key Marilyn is wrapped up in the word "Then" in Joel 2:

 18  THEN will the LORD be jealous for His land, and pity His people.

The same with the age old promise that God gave to Solomon concerning such a time.  Remember?  From II Chronicles 7:

 14  If My people, which are called by My name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways;  THEN will I hear from Heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Also, it may have been a simple oversight (I do the same thing sometimes, especially if I'm sleepy ), but the reference section you give "(Joel 2: 20 - 30)" does not start early enough, and continues to far...

Hi not an echo,

The page in my Bible started at verse 20, so that is why I went from there. Soyes I do agree looking back over the page that the word `then` is key. Thank you for pointing it out. 

As to being the same as 2 Chron. 7: 14, that was an `if` and God knew that Israel would not be able to continually obey Him. Thus we know that it is ONLY through Jesus` sacrifice that they, (& us) are made righteous.

So in Joel it is the Lord who is doing the `I will`s...` He is doing what Israel could not do. And that time is when He `removes the northern army,` and keeps them from the A/C till God brings the world`s armies down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and delivers His people. 

[not an echo]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

On 10/7/2021 at 12:23 AM, not an echo said:

The key Marilyn is wrapped up in the word "Then" in Joel 2:

 18  THEN will the LORD be jealous for His land, and pity His people.

The same with the age old promise that God gave to Solomon concerning such a time.  Remember?  From II Chronicles 7:

 14  If My people, which are called by My name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways;  THEN will I hear from Heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Also, it may have been a simple oversight (I do the same thing sometimes, especially if I'm sleepy ), but the reference section you give "(Joel 2: 20 - 30)" does not start early enough, and continues to far...

Hi not an echo,

The page in my Bible started at verse 20, so that is why I went from there. Soyes I do agree looking back over the page that the word `then` is key. Thank you for pointing it out. 

As to being the same as 2 Chron. 7: 14, that was an `if` and God knew that Israel would not be able to continually obey Him. Thus we know that it is ONLY through Jesus` sacrifice that they, (& us) are made righteous.

So in Joel it is the Lord who is doing the `I will`s...` He is doing what Israel could not do. And that time is when He `removes the northern army,` and keeps them from the A/C till God brings the world`s armies down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and delivers His people. 

Hello Marilyn,

Your replies are becoming increasingly curious to me.  Concerning your second paragraph, I did not use the II Chronicles 7:14 reference because I considered it to be a direct reference to what Joel prophesied, but because it is a well known example of a conditional statement that certainly applies to what Joel prophesied.  While this reference has positive connotations, Israel was repeatedly warned with similar, but negatively charged statements.  Consider from Leviticus 26 (all of it deserves to be highlighted):

 14  But IF ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments;

 15  And IF ye shall despise My statutes, or IF your soul abhor My judgments, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but that ye break My covenant:

 16  I also will do this unto you;  I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart:  and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

 17  And I will set My face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies:  they that hate you shall reign over you;  and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.

 18  And IF ye will not yet for all this hearken unto Me, THEN I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

I'm thinking, "Whew!"  It would be easy to wonder why the Israelites didn't get it.  But then, I think of myself and what it took for me to get it.  And, I've (we've) seen the same with others, our country, and our world.  It all bespeaks our corrupted fallen condition.

Back to the Israelites, I think of what God spoke to Jeremiah down at the potter's house, the account of which we find in chapter 18.  It's a few verses, but well worth the read, as it connects hard with our discussion concerning Joel's prophecy:

  1   The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

  2   Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear My words.

  3   Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.

  4   And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter:  so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

  5  Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

  6   O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter?  saith the LORD.  Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in Mine hand, O house of Israel.

  7   At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

  8   IF that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

  9   And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

 10  IF it do evil in My sight, that it obey not My voice, THEN

I WILL REPENT OF THE GOOD,

WHEREWITH I SAID I WOULD BENEFIT THEM.

As the account continues, we find that the people didn't like God's word to them through Jeremiah, so they took counsel against him.  And, they did this time and again to Jeremiah.  This was their mentality and manner towards all of the prophets that God used to warn them.  To me, nowhere is this summed up any better and more concisely than in II Chronicles 36:

 15  And the LORD God of their fathers sent to them by His messengers, rising up betimes, and sending;  because He had compassion on His people, and on His dwelling place:

 16  BUT they mocked the messengers of God, and despised His words, and misused His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

I'm thinking, some key words are sure coming to the forefront:  IF, THEN, and BUT.

Back for a moment to Joel's prophecies, IF the Israelites had turned to God with all their heart, "and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning" (2:12), He would have repented Him "of the evil" (2:13) that He was minded to bring upon them.  But, we know that they did not.  So, in regard to the good that He was minded to do for them if they had (2:18-27), He repented of that (Jer. 18:10/shown above) and did not remove His chastening rod from them---the northern army of Babylon---but wore them out with it.  Of course, this is not where the story ends, but, that's another story.  Hmmm.  I should say another chapter in the story.

[Marilyn C]

29 minutes ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

 

Hi not an echo,

I did realise that your 2 Chron. was to do with `if.` 

Why do you find it difficult to see Joel 2 being the Russian Federation before the tribulation and then Joel 3 being Armageddon at the end of the tribulation?

[not an echo]

2 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

11 minutes ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

 

Hi not an echo,

I did realise that your 2 Chron. was to do with `if.` 

Why do you find it difficult to see Joel 2 being the Russian Federation before the tribulation and then Joel 3 being Armageddon at the end of the tribulation?

I was just about to sign off for the night Marilyn (it's almost 1:30 a.m. here in Kentucky) and I saw that you had just replied.  To your question, I don't know why I would think that what Joel prophesies of in chapter two would have anything to do with "the Russian Federation."  Have you really looked closely at all the Scripture that I have shown that bears upon what Joel prophesied?  And, there's a lot more.  I don't see any support for your position in Joel 1:1-2:27, other than perhaps, Russia is north of Israel.  IMHO, your position on this section of Joel's prophecy would render it not really for the Israelites of his day.  That seems bizarre to me, especially in consideration of what was looming on their horizon.  Of course, there is an application for all of us, as individuals, nations, or the world, but I don't see a double meaning.  As far as Joel's prophecy from 2:28 forward, Joel's wording certainly clues us in, then Peter makes the solid "last days" (Acts 2:16-21) connection for us.

Got to hit the sack...

[Justin Adams]

Nothing to do with Russia. That is a carry over from the popular cold war hermeneutic. Really silly ideas from the 70's proposed by the usual fake prophets who made millions selling false predictions.

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, not an echo said:

I was just about to sign off for the night Marilyn (it's almost 1:30 a.m. here in Kentucky) and I saw that you had just replied.  To your question, I don't know why I would think that what Joel prophesies of in chapter two would have anything to do with "the Russian Federation."  Have you really looked closely at all the Scripture that I have shown that bears upon what Joel prophesied?  And, there's a lot more.  I don't see any support for your position in Joel 1:1-2:27, other than perhaps, Russia is north of Israel.  IMHO, your position on this section of Joel's prophecy would render it not really for the Israelites of his day.  That seems bizarre to me, especially in consideration of what was looming on their horizon.  Of course, there is an application for all of us, as individuals, nations, or the world, but I don't see a double meaning.  As far as Joel's prophecy from 2:28 forward, Joel's wording certainly clues us in, then Peter makes the solid "last days" (Acts 2:16-21) connection for us.

Got to hit the sack...

Hi not an echo,

Oh you must get your beauty sleep!!!!

Now back to our discussion. I have gone back and read some of your past comments and thus will hopefully clear up this matter of Joel 2.

So I believe we need to start with what actually is the Day of the Lord, (looming as you say). Here is an except from my uncle`s book, `Fires before the Dawn.` (out of print)

`One of the major themes in the Word of God concerns the prophetic truth relative to a time of international crisis in the last days. A time completely without precedent;  a time utterly dissimilar, by its concentration and extent to anything previously known in the history of the world. This period is consistently referred to as `The Day of the Lord,` and refers to that period coinciding with God dealing again with Israel and the nations subsequent to the Rapture of the Church (1 Thess. 5: 2 - 9)and terminating with the destruction of the heavens and the earth. (2 Peter 3: 10)

Invariably scripture connects this time with tribulation and suffering. Zepheniah (1: 14 - 18) provides one of the most concise descriptive accounts, as being more severe than any other in history. This is confirmed by Jeremiah (30: 7), Daniel (12: 1) and Joel (2: 2). Jesus Himself warned "For there shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning to this time, nor ever shall be." (Matt. 24: 21). John succinctly epitomises it as `The Day of the wrath of God.` ((Rev. 6: 15 - 17) 

Greek `orge` expresses wrath, anger, vengeance with connotations of punishment. To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity. (Isa. 26: 21)  

So the key points there are -

1. more severe than any other in history or never will be again.

2. deliverance for Israel and judgment upon the rebellious.

When I looked at your other scriptures - 2 Chron, 36: 16 - 21, Lam. 1: 12, 14 - 16, 2: 22,  4: 11,  Jer. 25: 8 - 11, 46: 1.2. 10 - 13.  50: 17, they do not fit the criteria.

 

[not an echo]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

18 hours ago, not an echo said:

I was just about to sign off for the night Marilyn (it's almost 1:30 a.m. here in Kentucky) and I saw that you had just replied.  To your question, I don't know why I would think that what Joel prophesies of in chapter two would have anything to do with "the Russian Federation."  Have you really looked closely at all the Scripture that I have shown that bears upon what Joel prophesied?  And, there's a lot more.  I don't see any support for your position in Joel 1:1-2:27, other than perhaps, Russia is north of Israel.  IMHO, your position on this section of Joel's prophecy would render it not really for the Israelites of his day.  That seems bizarre to me, especially in consideration of what was looming on their horizon.  Of course, there is an application for all of us, as individuals, nations, or the world, but I don't see a double meaning.  As far as Joel's prophecy from 2:28 forward, Joel's wording certainly clues us in, then Peter makes the solid "last days" (Acts 2:16-21) connection for us.

Got to hit the sack...

Hi not an echo,

Oh you must get your beauty sleep!!!!

Now back to our discussion. I have gone back and read some of your past comments and thus will hopefully clear up this matter of Joel 2.

So I believe we need to start with what actually is the Day of the Lord, (looming as you say). Here is an except from my uncle`s book, `Fires before the Dawn.` (out of print)

`One of the major themes in the Word of God concerns the prophetic truth relative to a time of international crisis in the last days. A time completely without precedent;  a time utterly dissimilar, by its concentration and extent to anything previously known in the history of the world. This period is consistently referred to as `The Day of the Lord,` and refers to that period coinciding with God dealing again with Israel and the nations subsequent to the Rapture of the Church (1 Thess. 5: 2 - 9)and terminating with the destruction of the heavens and the earth. (2 Peter 3: 10)

Invariably scripture connects this time with tribulation and suffering. Zepheniah (1: 14 - 18) provides one of the most concise descriptive accounts, as being more severe than any other in history. This is confirmed by Jeremiah (30: 7), Daniel (12: 1) and Joel (2: 2). Jesus Himself warned "For there shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning to this time, nor ever shall be." (Matt. 24: 21). John succinctly epitomises it as `The Day of the wrath of God.` ((Rev. 6: 15 - 17) 

Greek `orge` expresses wrath, anger, vengeance with connotations of punishment. To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity. (Isa. 26: 21)  

So the key points there are -

1. more severe than any other in history or never will be again.

2. deliverance for Israel and judgment upon the rebellious.

When I looked at your other scriptures - 2 Chron, 36: 16 - 21, Lam. 1: 12, 14 - 16, 2: 22,  4: 11,  Jer. 25: 8 - 11, 46: 1.2. 10 - 13.  50: 17, they do not fit the criteria.

Hello Marilyn,

Well, a good night's sleep certainly helps a lot.

Concerning your third paragraph, "So I believe we need to start with what actually is the Day of the Lord, (looming as you say)."  Let me just clarify that what Joel prophesied of concerning Israel in Joel 1:1-2:11 (just before God's call to them to repent) was what I have referred to as the first Day of the LORD prophesied of by Joel.  And, it was looming in that day, and it came to pass.  As I have said concerning the other Day of the LORD that Joel prophesied of, beginning in 2:28, it is in my opinion looming even now, in our day.

Concerning the first of your key points, "1. more severe than any other in history or never will be again."  I would just say that the second Day of the LORD that Joel prophesies of is the one that will quite naturally fit this criteria, as it will be worldwide in scope.  The first Day of the LORD that Joel prophesies of is against Israel and the nations surrounding it.

Concerning the second of your key points, "2. deliverance for Israel and judgment upon the rebellious."  Does it sound like to you that what Joel prophesied in 1:1-2:11 (just before God's call to them to repent, which they did not) is a time of "deliverance for Israel"?

Concerning the last six words of your reply, "they do not fit the criteria"  are you meaning the criteria of your uncle's writings?

Consider from the end of Ezekiel 12, leading into the first of chapter 13...

CHAPTER 12

 26  Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

 27  Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth IS FOR MANY DAYS TO COME, and he prophesieth OF TIMES THAT ARE FAR OFF.

 28  Therefore say unto them, THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD;  there shall none of My words BE PROLONGED ANY MORE, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.

CHAPTER 13

  1   And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

  2   Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, HEAR YE THE WORD OF THE LORD;

  3   THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD;  Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

  4   O Israel, thy prophets are like foxes in the deserts.

  5   Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in

THE DAY OF THE LORD.

Marilyn, even for Egypt it was to be the Day of the LORD.  In Ezekiel 30 notice (and especially how it is referenced to Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon)...

  1   The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,

  2   Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD;  Howl ye, Woe worth the day!

  3   For the day is near, even THE DAY OF THE LORD is near, a cloudy day;  it shall be the time of the heathen.

  4   And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down.

  5   Ethiopia, and Libya, and Lydia, and all the mingled people, and Chub, and the men of the land that is in league, shall fall with them by the sword.

  6   Thus saith the LORD;  They also that uphold Egypt shall fall;  and the pride of her power shall come down:  from the tower of Syene shall they fall in it by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.

  7   And they shall be desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities shall be in the midst of the cities that are wasted.

  8   And they shall know that I am the LORD, when I have set a fire in Egypt, and when all her helpers shall be destroyed.

  9   In that day shall messengers go forth from Me in ships to make the careless Ethiopians afraid, and great pain shall come upon them, as in the day of Egypt:  FOR, LO, IT COMETH.

 10  Thus saith the Lord GOD;  I will also make the multitude of Egypt to cease BY THE HAND OF NEBUCHADREZZAR KING OF BABYLON.

 11  He and his people with him, THE TERRIBLE OF THE NATIONS, SHALL BE BROUGHT TO DESTROY THE LAND:  and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land with the slain.

Finally Marilyn, I'm curious concerning what you said about my "other scriptures - 2 Chron, 36: 16 - 21, Lam. 1: 12, 14 - 16, 2: 22,  4: 11,  Jer. 25: 8 - 11, 46: 1.2. 10 - 13.  50: 17, they do not fit the criteria."  What is it about these scriptures that you feel don't fit the criteria of the Word rightly divided?

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

Well, a good night's sleep certainly helps a lot.

Concerning your third paragraph, "So I believe we need to start with what actually is the Day of the Lord, (looming as you say)."  Let me just clarify that what Joel prophesied of concerning Israel in Joel 1:1-2:11 (just before God's call to them to repent) was what I have referred to as the first Day of the LORD prophesied of by Joel.  And, it was looming in that day, and it came to pass.  As I have said concerning the other Day of the LORD that Joel prophesied of, beginning in 2:28, it is in my opinion looming even now, in our day.

Concerning the first of your key points, "1. more severe than any other in history or never will be again."  I would just say that the second Day of the LORD that Joel prophesies of is the one that will quite naturally fit this criteria, as it will be worldwide in scope.  The first Day of the LORD that Joel prophesies of is against Israel and the nations surrounding it.

Concerning the second of your key points, "2. deliverance for Israel and judgment upon the rebellious."  Does it sound like to you that what Joel prophesied in 1:1-2:11 (just before God's call to them to repent, which they did not) is a time of "deliverance for Israel"?

Concerning the last six words of your reply, "they do not fit the criteria"  are you meaning the criteria of your uncle's writings?

 

Yes sleep is so important and with our `daylight saving time` over here putting our clocks ahead an hour is not good for the cows let alone messing up our sleep.

So let`s just look at your first points. 

1. Joel 2: 2 talks about ` a people come, great and strong, the like of whom has never been; nor will ever be any such after them.` Thus it is not Assyria nor Babylon.

2. Deliverance for Israel. & judgment upon the rebellious.  Joel 2: 20 `but I will remove far from you the northern army, and will drive him away into a barren and desolate land....`  

 

The `criteria` is what I see in scripture as to the Day of the Lord in the end times.