No Holy Spirit in the Great Tribulation, the sealing and assignment of 144k Hebrew and 2 Witnesses means church era is over.

[R. Hartono]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:53 PM, Justin Adams said:

To answer the OP. The 'great tribulation' from Israel's perspective is long over. The Spirit of the Lord is always here.

All these silly end times scenarios are incorrect. We await the final day of the Lord and in the meantime we stay away from fables and get on with the Great Commission. God is always Sovereign up until eternity and way past the last heartbeat of the last saved soul.

All the rest is supposition based on supposition and falsehood plus the misreading of many scriptures.

God will serve the world with the Star-Wormwood coffee in the great tribulation, free of charge. Never in history 

Edited October 1, 2021 by R. Hartono

[Marilyn C]

On 9/28/2021 at 10:11 AM, R. Hartono said:

God is omnipresent means He knows everything and always present Himself in this world, but the Bible said His presence was in the form of Father (OT), Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit (NT).

In the great tribulation the 2 Witnesses and the sealed 144000 Hebrew will replace the Holy Spirit and the church, as God will return the mandate of salvation to the Hebrew.

Believers who refuse to worship the beast antichrist will either go into captivity or be killed as Rev 13:10 says. There will be no more churches allowed in the great tribulation. Holy Spirit was given in Pentecost day 2000 years ago to build up the church with 9 Gifts of Holy Spirit, not in the great tribulation where churches shall be destroyed.

 

Hi RH,

No one can replace the Holy Spirit. What is occurring is as you say the (true) Church will be gone, however there will still be buildings where people go who think they are `Christian.` They are deceived and only have a `form of godliness...` as we know from scripture. These people are connected to the World`s Religious System of moral values - respect, tolerance, inclusiveness etc (of all sorts of deviant behaviour).

People do turn to God through the witness of the 144,000 Hebrew, (as you said) who are telling people of the coming Messiah and His rule through Israel over the nations. 

People also turn to God when they are dying of hunger, heat and/or thirst. These are the Great multitude that no one can count. (Rev. 7: 9 - 17,  esp. 14 & 16)

 

[missmuffet]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:28 PM, R. Hartono said:

The early church of apostles believed in Jesus already but they had not received Holy Spirit so Jesus commanded them to wait in Jerusalem for Holy Spirit baptism on that Pentecost day.

Paul and Peter met many believers who believe in Lord Jesus already but they didn't know about Holy Spirit baptism.

Holy Spirit brings the 9 gifts to build up the church, these are the gift of Glosolalia, Xenolalia, healing, interpreting Glosolalia, discerning spirits, etc. This gifts will be no more in the great tribulation as the church of wise virgins is taken to the Feast of the Lamb.

People who believe the 2 Witnesses and refuse the Mark of the beast will go into captivity or be killed as Rev 13:10 says, no more Holy Spirit Gifts to build up the church as there will be no more church.

Suit yourself because there will be many saved during the 7 year tribulation and in order for that to happen the Holy Spirit still needs to be on the earth. 

The question of the Holy Spirit not being present during the tribulation results from a misunderstanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:7, which reads, “For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.” Right now, prior to the tribulation, one of the ministries of the Holy Spirit is the restraint of evil. In verses 8 and 9, we learn that the restraining power of the Holy Spirit holds back the “lawless one” (Antichrist) so he is not revealed before God wills it. The passage says the Holy Spirit will no longer restrain the growth of evil, but that does not mean He will have no ministry whatsoever.

In Acts 1:4–5, Jesus promises that His disciples would soon be “baptized with the Holy Spirit.” In Acts chapter 2, Jesus’ promise is fulfilled. In verses 38 and 39, it is written that “Peter replied, ‘Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.’”

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is thus assured for every born-again believer, and nowhere in Scripture is that promise rescinded. Regeneration is the Spirit’s work; without Him, no one is saved. If the Spirit were not present during the tribulation, no one could be saved. But the fact is that a multitude that no one can number is saved during the tribulation (Revelation 7:9–14). Therefore, those who come to Jesus during the tribulation period will also be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Give glory to God for making that provision, because tribulation saints will need the guidance and direction of the Spirit during that troubled time.

Another good reason that the Spirit must be present during the tribulation is that He is omnipresent. Since He is everywhere at all times, He must be in the world during the tribulation.

At some point—only God knows when—the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit will be removed, the Antichrist will be revealed to an unwitting and unsuspecting world, and the tribulation period will begin.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-tribulation.html

Edited September 30, 2021 by missmuffet

[R. Hartono]

5 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Suit yourself because there will be many saved during the 7 year tribulation and in order for that to happen the Holy Spirit still needs to be on the earth. 

The question of the Holy Spirit not being present during the tribulation results from a misunderstanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:7, which reads, “For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.” Right now, prior to the tribulation, one of the ministries of the Holy Spirit is the restraint of evil. In verses 8 and 9, we learn that the restraining power of the Holy Spirit holds back the “lawless one” (Antichrist) so he is not revealed before God wills it. The passage says the Holy Spirit will no longer restrain the growth of evil, but that does not mean He will have no ministry whatsoever.

In Acts 1:4–5, Jesus promises that His disciples would soon be “baptized with the Holy Spirit.” In Acts chapter 2, Jesus’ promise is fulfilled. In verses 38 and 39, it is written that “Peter replied, ‘Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.’”

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is thus assured for every born-again believer, and nowhere in Scripture is that promise rescinded. Regeneration is the Spirit’s work; without Him, no one is saved. If the Spirit were not present during the tribulation, no one could be saved. But the fact is that a multitude that no one can number is saved during the tribulation (Revelation 7:9–14). Therefore, those who come to Jesus during the tribulation period will also be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Give glory to God for making that provision, because tribulation saints will need the guidance and direction of the Spirit during that troubled time.

Another good reason that the Spirit must be present during the tribulation is that He is omnipresent. Since He is everywhere at all times, He must be in the world during the tribulation.

At some point—only God knows when—the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit will be removed, the Antichrist will be revealed to an unwitting and unsuspecting world, and the tribulation period will begin.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-tribulation.html

 

Angels will be sealing the 144000 servants of God who replace the church in great tribulation, because No Holy Spirit sealing for the 144000 in the great tribulation.

The early church of apostles have believed in Jesus even before Holy Spirit downpour on Pentecost day. Thats historically proven.

There was no Holy Spirit during the OT and Jesus era either. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by R. Hartono

[missmuffet]

17 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

 

Angels will be sealing the 144000 servants of God who replace the church in great tribulation, because No Holy Spirit sealing for the 144000 in the great tribulation.

The early church of apostles have believed in Jesus even before Holy Spirit downpour on Pentecost day. Thats historically proven.

There was no Holy Spirit during the OT and Jesus era either. 

The 144,000 will be sealed by God. 

[FortifiedbyFaith]

On 9/27/2021 at 7:28 PM, R. Hartono said:

The early church of apostles believed in Jesus already but they had not received Holy Spirit so Jesus commanded them to wait in Jerusalem for Holy Spirit baptism on that Pentecost day.

Paul and Peter met many believers who believe in Lord Jesus already but they didn't know about Holy Spirit baptism.

Holy Spirit brings the 9 gifts to build up the church, these are the gift of Glosolalia, Xenolalia, healing, interpreting Glosolalia, discerning spirits, etc. This gifts will be no more in the great tribulation as the church of wise virgins is taken to the Feast of the Lamb.

People who believe the 2 Witnesses and refuse the Mark of the beast will go into captivity or be killed as Rev 13:10 says, no more Holy Spirit Gifts to build up the church as there will be no more church.

There are those of us that believe your rapture timetable is questionable. You would have to believe in an early rapture. We will see Tribulations said Jesus, however the elect/chosen are not going to see GOD’s wrath. Two totally different events. Notice the “and then” in verse 30 of Matthew. Who has the last say Paul or Jesus? Both of my quotes were from Jesus or when he returned to John to clarify previous teachings. Both verses support each other.

MATTHEW 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave[a] and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

[R. Hartono]

27 minutes ago, FortifiedbyFaith said:

There are those of us that believe your rapture timetable is questionable. You would have to believe in an early rapture. We will see Tribulations said Jesus, however the elect/chosen are not going to see GOD’s wrath. Two totally different events. Notice the “and then” in verse 30 of Matthew. Who has the last say Paul or Jesus? Both of my quotes were from Jesus or when he returned to John to clarify previous teachings. Both verses support each other.

MATTHEW 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave[a] and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by R. Hartono

[R. Hartono]

36 minutes ago, FortifiedbyFaith said:

There are those of us that believe your rapture timetable is questionable. You would have to believe in an early rapture. We will see Tribulations said Jesus, however the elect/chosen are not going to see GOD’s wrath. Two totally different events. Notice the “and then” in verse 30 of Matthew. Who has the last say Paul or Jesus? Both of my quotes were from Jesus or when he returned to John to clarify previous teachings. Both verses support each other.

MATTHEW 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave[a] and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

I hv written about the 6th seal would you please check, please note this was not written easily without trial and struggle in Faith and fasting 

 

[FortifiedbyFaith]

On 11/8/2021 at 5:44 PM, R. Hartono said:

I hv written about the 6th seal would you please check, please note this was not written easily without trial and struggle in Faith and fasting 

 

I am sorry, I will stay with Jesus on this.

[R. Hartono]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:53 PM, Justin Adams said:

To answer the OP. The 'great tribulation' from Israel's perspective is long over. The Spirit of the Lord is always here.

All these silly end times scenarios are incorrect. We await the final day of the Lord and in the meantime we stay away from fables and get on with the Great Commission. God is always Sovereign up until eternity and way past the last heartbeat of the last saved soul.

All the rest is supposition based on supposition and falsehood plus the misreading of many scriptures.

You keep calling other people as silly like the great teacher.

God will serve the world left behind with wormwood coffee in the great tribulation.