The test of the wise virgins is right now, but the test of the foolish is later.

[The Light]

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

Some people claim that christians must go into the great tribulation to be tested. And there will be no pre-tribulation rapture.

They say :

"Its unwise to be selfish, expecting to be raptured, not willing to be tested".

"All christians must go to the great tribulation to proof their loyalty".

"No no, there will be no rapture, we must all suffer with this world".

"Whoa whoa, we christians must be brave to face persecution in the great tribulation, if we must die so be it". etc. etc.


DID YOU EVER READ THIS?  

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

James 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

Are not we in need of enduring temptation. That does not require the Great Tribulation so this point is meaningless.

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hebrews 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Was anyone required to go through the Great Tribulation to be tempted. You post a bunch of scriptures that prove nothing.

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

Matthew 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Again, proves nothing as to whether we will go through the Great Tribulation.

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

 

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

The Jews are being addressed and are told what will happen at the end of the age. Has nothing to do with the Church.

 

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

 

John 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Again, totally taken out of context. Jesus is praying that the APOSTLES will be protected from evil. The Apostles were not taken out of the world as they were here to spread the Gospel. Has nothing, whatsoever, to do with whether the Church will go through the Great Tribulation.

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

This has nothing to do with whether the Church is here for the tribulation. Again, totally out of context. People were afraid that they had entered the Day of the Lord. Paul set them straight and said that can't happen until there is a falling away and the man of sin is revealed. Has nothing to do with whether the Church will go through the tribulation.

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

etc. etc. etc.  Every thing posted is in direct opposition to WHAT IS WRITTEN.  HOW do you explain that?

 

You posted a bunch of scriptures that are totally out of context that prove nothing as whether the Church will go through the tribulation.

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

 

2 Timothy 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

2Timothy 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

2Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

2Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

2Timothy 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

2Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

Was the Great Tribulation required?

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

Did God's warning about the foolish virgins shall be left, is for no good to us ? And that it is the worst time in the history of mankind because all wars combined together in mankind history may not match the destruction of the horrors that will be unleashed by the 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 vials. Mankind has seen nothing yet comparable to this annihilation. While the Luciferian NWO will snatch the opportunity to rule and enslave the world with their agenda which is called the great reset, all lands, water, seeds, trees, fish, minerals will be confiscated from personal belonging.
 

1Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

1Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

1Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

1Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

1Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

1Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1Thessalonians 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1Thessalonians 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;

1Thessalonians 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.
 

We are not appointed to wrath. And your point?

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

 

Daniel 11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

Daniel 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

Daniel 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end because it is yet for a time appointed.

Scriptures are about what happens during the 70th week of Daniel. The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel, not the Church. Again out of context.

 

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

THE DECEIVER IS COMING!!!!!!!!!!!

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.

Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Addressing the Jews. Immediately after the tribulation, Jesus comes for the second harvest, just prior to the wrath of God. This is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.

On 9/25/2021 at 11:11 PM, DeighAnn said:

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 10/14/2021 at 5:00 PM, The Light said:

However, there will be a pretribulation rapture. We see the Church is heaven in Rev 5 before the seals are opened. The Great Tribulation occurs during the 7th week of Daniel when God has turned His attention to His Chosen People.

All three of these statements are based on unprovable assumptions, and are false.

The fullness of the Church is the "great multitude" of Rev. 7, being post-trib. The saints of Rev. 5 are a mere fraction of those.

On 10/14/2021 at 5:00 PM, The Light said:

Matthew 24 1:31 [1-31] is written to the Jews.

No, it is written by and for Christ's disciples, both Jew and Gentile. Nothing in it restricts it to post-rapture Jews only.

[The Light]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

All three of these statements are based on unprovable assumptions, and are false.

All are true and provable. 

 

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The fullness of the Church is the "great multitude" of Rev. 7, being post-trib.

No. No. Not a chance. The Church is part of the great multitude and is not the total great multitude. We can prove that the Church is not the biggest part of the great multitude by these verses.

Rom 11

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

 

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The saints of Rev. 5 are a mere fraction of those.

No, it is written by and for Christ's disciples, both Jew and Gentile. Nothing in it restricts it to post-rapture Jews only.

Correct...according to the instructions of the harvest. And yet, the mostly Gentile Church will be in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel begins.

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 10/19/2021 at 12:42 PM, WilliamL said:

On 10/14/2021 at 5:00 PM, The Light said:

However, there will be a pretribulation rapture. We see the Church is heaven in Rev 5 before the seals are opened. The Great Tribulation occurs during the 7th week of Daniel when God has turned His attention to His Chosen People.

All three of these statements are based on unprovable assumptions, and are false.

Every one of your statements are based upon assumptions, that you and others receive as facts. Just as you presume that the 70th week of Daniel takes place in the end times, despite any evidence in Daniel 9 to support this.

From my blog on this subject, here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

" Nothing in the passage of Daniel 9:24-27 can be demonstrated to have any unequivocal prophetic message for OUR time, despite the great deal of hype to the contrary. It doesn’t mention at all

 

– any “abomination of desolation of the Holy Place [Sanctuary]” (Matt. 24:15; cf. Deut. 7:25-26 and Dan. 11:31);

– the time of the end/latter time/latter days, or any similar term;

– the Great Tribulation/“time of trouble such as never was” (Dan. 12:1);

– the saints, or any flight of God’s people;

– Messiah’s coming in the clouds, Divine Judgment, and/or the establishment of God’s kingdom;

– the King of the North’s or the Little Horn’s demise;

– or the raising of the dead.

These topics are discussed elsewhere in Daniel’s End Time prophecies. Why are none of them found here? Because this is not a prophecy about the end of the Church Age, but rather about the end of the Jewish Age. "

[R. Hartono]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

 

– Messiah’s coming in the cloud.

 Because this is not a prophecy about the end of the Church Age, but rather about the end of the Jewish Age. "

The church age end when the wise virgins are taken to the Feast of the Lamb at the fullness of gentiles, then God return to deal with Israel by sealing the 144000 Hebrew and the 2 Witnesses (probably Moses and Elijah)

Edited October 21, 2021 by R. Hartono

[The Light]

8 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Every one of your statements are based upon assumptions, that you and others receive as facts.

The statements are based on facts that you perceive as assumptions. If you took all scripture into consideration as a whole you would see this. 

8 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Just as you presume that the 70th week of Daniel takes place in the end times, despite any evidence in Daniel 9 to support this.

Exactly my point above. If you took all scripture into consideration you would would see this verse.

Dan 12

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The book is sealed until the time of the end. That would be end times. And yet you want to separate Daniel 9 from the Book of Daniel. 

8 hours ago, WilliamL said:

From my blog on this subject, here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

Dan 9

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

69 weeks have happened but Messiah shall be cut off. When the covenant is confirmed for one week, the 70th week will begin.

8 hours ago, WilliamL said:

" Nothing in the passage of Daniel 9:24-27 can be demonstrated to have any unequivocal prophetic message for OUR time, despite the great deal of hype to the contrary. It doesn’t mention at all

 

– any “abomination of desolation of the Holy Place [Sanctuary]” (Matt. 24:15; cf. Deut. 7:25-26 and Dan. 11:31);

– the time of the end/latter time/latter days, or any similar term;

– the Great Tribulation/“time of trouble such as never was” (Dan. 12:1);

– the saints, or any flight of God’s people;

– Messiah’s coming in the clouds, Divine Judgment, and/or the establishment of God’s kingdom;

– the King of the North’s or the Little Horn’s demise;

– or the raising of the dead.

These topics are discussed elsewhere in Daniel’s End Time prophecies. Why are none of them found here? Because this is not a prophecy about the end of the Church Age, but rather about the end of the Jewish Age. "

EXACTLY CORRECT. You could not possibly be more correct. The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel, THE JEWS.

Dan 9

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people

You correctly state, "Because this is not a prophecy about the end of the Church Age". We already see the Church in heaven in Rev 5 signaling that the Church age is over. Then we see the rider on the white horse in Rev 6 as the 70th week of Daniel begins. The four horsemen are the beginning of sorrows that come on the world after the Church age is over. See Matthew 24.

[WilliamL]

On 10/21/2021 at 9:40 PM, The Light said:

On 10/21/2021 at 12:19 PM, WilliamL said:

Just as you presume that the 70th week of Daniel takes place in the end times, despite any evidence in Daniel 9 to support this.

Exactly my point above. If you took all scripture into consideration you would would see this verse.

Dan 12

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The book is sealed until the time of the end. That would be end times. And yet you want to separate Daniel 9 from the Book of Daniel. 

The part in red is false: I separate the fulfilled prophecy, now history, of Daniel 9 with the unfulfilled prophecy of Daniel 12.

When you make statements like --

On 10/21/2021 at 9:40 PM, The Light said:

The statements are based on facts that you perceive as assumptions. If you took all scripture into consideration as a whole you would see this. 

-- you only show the circularity of your own reasoning.

"If you took all scripture into consideration as a whole you would see this." > This statement means nothing. Anybody can make such a claim.

The fact remains that nothing in Daniel 9 specifically mentions anything about the End Times. Nothing at all: you just presume this, based on nothing but your own circular reasoning.

Thinking that Daniel 9:26b-27 prophesies about the End Times is what I used to believe too, until I took a closer look at the actual text, and my own projections upon it.

Edited October 25, 2021 by WilliamL

[missmuffet]

"Some people claim that christians must go into the great tribulation to be tested. And there will be no pre-tribulation rapture".

The true born again Christian will be raptured and will not go into the 7 year tribulation. Those who are not genuine Christians will have a chance to come to Christ during the 7 year tribulation. They will be the tribulation saints. 

[The Light]

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The part in red is false: I separate the fulfilled prophecy, now history, of Daniel 9 with the unfulfilled prophecy of Daniel 12.

You merely ignore the truth that only 69 weeks have occurred in the 70th week prophecy. God will keep His promise to Israel.

Rom 11

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

How much more will the fullness of the Jews be after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

When you make statements like --

-- you only show the circularity of your own reasoning.

"If you took all scripture into consideration as a whole you would see this." > This statement means nothing. Anybody can make such a claim.

Problem is, I proved it. Circular reasoning nonsense is just a weak attempt to deflect to deflect the truth.

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The fact remains that nothing in Daniel 9 specifically mentions anything about the End Times. Nothing at all: you just presume this, based on nothing but your own circular reasoning.

Fact is, that God will keep His promise to His Chosen People. They just won't be the first harvest.

Hos 9

10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

7 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Thinking that Daniel 9:26b-27 prophesies about the End Times is what I used to believe too, until I took a closer look at the actual text, and my own projections upon it.

I took a closer look and the facts didn't change. There is one week left for the Jews when God will welcome the prodigal son. GOD  WILL KEEP HIS PROMISE.

[WilliamL]

On 10/21/2021 at 4:14 PM, R. Hartono said:

The church age ends when the wise virgins are taken to the Feast of the Lamb at the fullness of gentiles, then God returns to deal with Israel by sealing the 144000 Hebrew and the 2 Witnesses (probably Moses and Elijah)

Agreed, with the exception of Moses and Elijah probably being the 2 Witnesses.