Eternal Security

[JohnD]

Salvation at every step is of the Lord. Even our ability to believe:

Ephesians 2:8 (AV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Passages like "if we continue," or "if we persevere," is not speaking of our ability to do so but rather 

the evidence that God is doing so in our lives... otherwise:

1 John 2:18–19 (AV)
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

There are a million different interpretations for every word known to man.

But all that matters is God's interpretation of his own words (2 Peter 1:20-21).

God provided salvation. God called us to believe. Our faith is the gift of God. God keeps us saved (John 10:27-30). Salvation we will not walk away from (Jeremiah 32:40) if we could 1 John 2:19 says proves we were never saved in the first place. 1 Corinthians 5:5 indicates the  lengths God will go to in order than we cannot sin our way out of salvation.

There can be no greater eternal security than this.

And any passages that seem (out of over all biblical context) to indicate otherwise must be tempered by these plain speaking passages.

Example "If we persevere" "if we continue" are therefore speaking of the evidences rather than the conditions of our obedience.

John 6:28–29 (AV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Interesting that even in this response, Jesus indicates our belief is the work of God and not man.

 

 

[JohnD]

Innate in human nature is the unction to try to pay / repay / contribute. 

God's purpose of the Law of Moses / Old Covenant is to prove in every situation possible man is incapable of

earning salvation or maintaining it. We must therefore submit entirely to the mercy and grace of God to do it all.

Or not at all.

And that's what people (and especially those striving to keep the Law) find almost impossible to do.

Many churches today for example, do not teach the New Testament begins on the cross of Christ (Hebrews 9:16-17)

and thus inculcate the Old Testament teachings taught up to the crucifixion as Christian mandates (because they are in

the Gospels but are prior to the cross). This is a means of control. It taps into that unction to try to pay / repay / contribute. ← which interferes

with God's work and may even prevent one from being saved.

Matthew 7:21–23 (AV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.†††
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

††† John 6:27–29 (AV)
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 16:27 (AV)
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 3:16–18 (AV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (AV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Everything up to the death of Christ on the cross is Old Testament.

Hebrews 9:16–17 (AV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

When just after the Lord's prayer we are told we must forgive others or our Heavenly Father will not forgive us... this is old covenant Law

not new covenant Grace. Or when we are told to gouge out our eyes if they cause us to sin for it is better to enter life maimed than hell physically intact... old testament Law!

The dividing line between covenants is not between Malachi 4 and Matthew 1 but at:

• Matthew 27:50
• Mark 15:37
• Luke 23:46
• John 19:30

All prior to these is Old Testament.

Galatians 3:24–28 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God*** by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

*** Romans 8:15 (AV)
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

A son / daughter is a son /  daughter for life / eternal life.

[Kelly2363]

Watchman Nee once ventured to offer his understanding of who is a Christian and who is not. The reason was simply because in a Christian culture many people say they believe and even do many things to uphold that claim - but then sometime they fall away and for decades in some cases. So he coined the phrase - Saved with an Everlasting Salvation to express what is intended by Once Saved Always Saved. He defined Salvation in more detail than any person I have ever read bar none - and then expressed that he judges who is saved by what it is they are able to believe. If you think about it - that really does separate out who is saved or not saved - fully saved or still being saved. The Lord knows.

[JohnD]

We are a priesthood (each and every one of us) unto God. 

A kingdom of PRIESTS!

Revelation 1:6 (AV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (AV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (AV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Let no religious organization deprive you of this.

[Alive]

9 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

Watchman Nee once ventured to offer his understanding of who is a Christian and who is not. The reason was simply because in a Christian culture many people say they believe and even do many things to uphold that claim - but then sometime they fall away and for decades in some cases. So he coined the phrase - Saved with an Everlasting Salvation to express what is intended by Once Saved Always Saved. He defined Salvation in more detail than any person I have ever read bar none - and then expressed that he judges who is saved by what it is they are able to believe. If you think about it - that really does separate out who is saved or not saved - fully saved or still being saved. The Lord knows.

Amen! IMO, his best illustration was the note in a book. If you put a note in a book and ship the book to a place, the note shares the history of the book. The experience is the same. He related this to our "being In Christ of the father"--thus when Christ dies, resurrected and ascended--our history is His. This is precisely the core of our understanding and why it is where I live and ateempt to teach. Salvation is relocation. This is the Lord's solution. The greatest solution possible for the worst tragedy in the universe.

[Kelly2363]

2 minutes ago, Alive said:

Amen! IMO, his best illustration was the note in a book. If you put a note in a book and ship the book to a place, the note shares the history of the book. The experience is the same. He related this to our "being In Christ of the father"--thus when Christ dies, resurrected and ascended--our history is His. This is precisely the core of our understanding and why it is where I live and ateempt to teach. Salvation is relocation. This is the Lord's solution. The greatest solution possible for the worst tragedy in the universe.

 

Yes indeed. I came to the same position in large part because I was concerned by the way I was being treated by a pastor and not because of my lack of zeal. Nee gave me the best exposition of what our faith into Christ is - and rather than make me less inclined to serve the Lord it made me more grateful for what I had in Christ. That was the day I found the rest of the Lord. 

[Alive]

Just now, Kelly2363 said:

 

Yes indeed. I came to the same position in large part because I was concerned by the way I was being treated by a pastor and not because of my lack of zeal. Nee gave me the best exposition of what our faith into Christ is - and rather than make me less inclined to serve the Lord it made me more grateful for what I had in Christ. That was the day I found the rest of the Lord. 

I am forever thankful to the Lord for His work through Nee. Before ever being a part of any group other than those of us 'Jesus Freaks' as we were called preaching in streets and parks, the Lord led me to learn from that dear brother, who fell asleep that very same year. The foundation laid then, when I was a mere babe, is as sure now as then 46 years later.

The simple truths of our common salvation learned and experienced have kept me from many problems and rescued me when I have strayed and even been in a position to be seduced by terrible practices.

Oh--the depth of His riches!

[missmuffet]

These verses tell us that those who are born again true believers in Jesus Christ have eternal security.

John 10:28-29

Ephesians 4:30

Romans 8:38-39

[David1701]

3 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

Watchman Nee once ventured to offer his understanding of who is a Christian and who is not. The reason was simply because in a Christian culture many people say they believe and even do many things to uphold that claim - but then sometime they fall away and for decades in some cases. So he coined the phrase - Saved with an Everlasting Salvation to express what is intended by Once Saved Always Saved. He defined Salvation in more detail than any person I have ever read bar none - and then expressed that he judges who is saved by what it is they are able to believe. If you think about it - that really does separate out who is saved or not saved - fully saved or still being saved. The Lord knows.

Yes, we are saved with an everlasting salvation; but, what does the Bible say is the evidence that we have salvation?

1 John 3:7-10 (ESV)

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's  seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

The word of God states, very clearly, that those who make a practice of sinning are of the devil (not wandering sheep!).  No-one who has been born of God makes a practice of sinning, never mind decades of it!

James 2:14-20 (EMTV)

14 What does it profit, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Is that kind of faith able to save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the necessary things of the body, what is the benefit?
17 Thus also that faith, if it does not have works, is dead, being by itself.
18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by means of my works.
19 You believe God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe—and they shudder!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

Any so-called "faith" that does not have good works flowing from it, is not real faith at all.  It is as dead as a dodo, like the doctrine which teaches that born again Christians can leave the Lord and live in sin for decades.

We need to believe what the Bible says, not someone's fleshly interpretation of other people's lives.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

"I declare unto you the good news, by which you are saved,
if ye hold fast to the word I preached to you,
unless you have believed in vain."  1 Corinthians 15:2

Sincere belief will always lead to action,
and belief can therefore be in vain, if it is not sincere.

"For many walk of whom I told you before and even tell you now weeping,
that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ,
whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly,
whose glory is in their shame,
who set their mind on earthly things"
Philippians 3:18

"And they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts"
Galatians 5:24