Christian Discussions of Sensitive Issues

[Dennis1209]

8 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I disagree.  We should not defend or accept bad Christian Theology.  This can be done with a loving and Christian way.  If you read the epistles of Paul, he spoke plainly with an intolerance for those not firmly routed in God's Word.  He even put Peter in his place when needed.

Them there Gentiles  LoL...

[Mike Mclees]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Them there Gentiles  LoL...

This answer to Saved by Grace could be taken as a mocking answer or undignified and not polite. You see it is easy to feel insult. Jesus often said woe to you Pharisees, woe to you teachers of the law. He was not polite when he wiped the merchants in the church court yard.  I say this in love.  Many times I have made answers that completely stopped an OP, not because of me but because the answer was the truth. Truth often offends such as it was with Jesus.

[missmuffet]

12 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

The problem is, we cannot agree on what is Christian truth.

There is only one Christian truth and that is in the Bible. 

[bropro]

16 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Gary but this in no way means we let the doctrines of God's Word slip from their eternal place in Christ....

I agree. We should "study to show ourselves approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." I was simply addressing the spirit in which we are to speak the truth.

Gary

Edited October 3, 2021 by bropro

[Guest]

4 hours ago, missmuffet said:

There is only one Christian truth and that is in the Bible. 

The problem is you and I can read the same Bible, same translation, and arrive at two different "truths".  Take Genesis 1:1-1:3 or Genesis 6:1-6:4.  So your statement is just not supportable.

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

The problem is you and I can read the same Bible, same translation, and arrive at two different "truths".  Take Genesis 1:1-1:3 or Genesis 6:1-6:4.  So your statement is just not supportable.

There is only one truth if you read the Bible literally. Many give the verses in Scripture their own meaning to satisfy themselves. 

Scripture says there is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Ephesians 4:5). This passage emphasizes the unity that should exist in the body of Christ as we are indwelt by “one Spirit” (verse 4). In verse 3, Paul makes an appeal to humility, meekness, patience, and love—all of which are necessary to preserve unity. According to 1 Corinthians 2:10-13, the Holy Spirit knows the mind of God (verse 11), which He reveals (verse 10) and teaches (verse 13) to those whom He indwells. This activity of the Holy Spirit is called illumination.
In a perfect world, every believer would dutifully study the Bible (2 Timothy 2:15) in prayerful dependence upon the Holy Spirit’s illumination. As can be clearly seen, this is not a perfect world. Not everyone who possesses the Holy Spirit actually listens to the Holy Spirit. There are Christians who grieve Him (Ephesians 4:30). Ask any educator—even the best classroom teacher has his share of wayward students who seem to resist learning, no matter what the teacher does. So, one reason different people have different interpretations of the Bible is simply that some do not listen to the Teacher—the Holy Spirit. Following are some other reasons for the wide divergence of beliefs among those who teach the Bible.

1. Unbelief. The fact is that many who claim to be Christians have never been born again. They wear the label of “Christian,” but there has been no true change of heart. Many who do not even believe the Bible to be true presume to teach it. They claim to speak for God yet live in a state of unbelief. Most false interpretations of Scripture come from such sources.

It is impossible for an unbeliever to correctly interpret Scripture. “The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14). An unsaved man cannot understand the truth of the Bible. He has no illumination. Further, even being a pastor or theologian does not guarantee one’s salvation.

An example of the chaos created by unbelief is found in John 12:28-29. Jesus prays to the Father, saying, “Father, glorify your name.” The Father responds with an audible voice from heaven, which everyone nearby hears. Notice, however, the difference in interpretation: “The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.” Everyone heard the same thing—an intelligible statement from heaven—yet everyone heard what he wanted to hear.

2. Lack of training. The apostle Peter warns against those who misinterpret the Scriptures. He attributes their spurious teachings in part to the fact that they are “ignorant” (2 Peter 3:16). Timothy is told to “Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15). There is no shortcut to proper biblical interpretation; we are constrained to study.

3. Poor hermeneutics. Much error has been promoted because of a simple failure to apply good hermeneutics (the science of interpreting Scripture). Taking a verse out of its immediate context can do great damage to the intent of the verse. Ignoring the wider context of the chapter and book, or failing to understand the historical/cultural context will also lead to problems.

4. Ignorance of the whole Word of God. Apollos was a powerful and eloquent preacher, but he only knew the baptism of John. He was ignorant of Jesus and His provision of salvation, so his message was incomplete. Aquila and Priscilla took him aside and “explained to him the way of God more adequately” (Acts 18:24-28). After that, Apollos preached Jesus Christ. Some groups and individuals today have an incomplete message because they concentrate on certain passages to the exclusion of others. They fail to compare Scripture with Scripture.

5. Selfishness and pride. Sad to say, many interpretations of the Bible are based on an individual’s own personal biases and pet doctrines. Some people see an opportunity for personal advancement by promoting a “new perspective” on Scripture. (See the description of false teachers in Jude’s epistle.)

6. Failure to mature. When Christians are not maturing as they should, their handling of the Word of God is affected. “I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly” (1 Corinthians 3:2-3). An immature Christian is not ready for the “meat” of God’s Word. Note that the proof of the Corinthians’ carnality is a division in their church (verse 4).

7. Undue emphasis on tradition. Some churches claim to believe the Bible, but their interpretation is always filtered through the established traditions of their church. Where tradition and the teaching of the Bible are in conflict, tradition is given precedence. This effectively negates the authority of the Word and grants supremacy to the church leadership.

On the essentials, the Bible is abundantly clear. There is nothing ambiguous about the deity of Christ, the reality of heaven and hell, and salvation by grace through faith. On some issues of less importance, however, the teaching of Scripture is less clear, and this naturally leads to different interpretations. For example, we have no direct biblical command governing the frequency of communion or the style of music to use. Honest, sincere Christians can have differing interpretations of the passages concerning these peripheral issues.

The important thing is to be dogmatic where Scripture is and to avoid being dogmatic where Scripture is not. Churches should strive to follow the model of the early church in Jerusalem: “They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer” (Acts 2:42). There was unity in the early church because they were steadfast in the apostles’ doctrine. There will be unity in the church again when we get back to the apostles’ doctrine and forego the other doctrines, fads, and gimmicks that have crept into the church.

https://www.gotquestions.org/interpretations-Christian.html

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by missmuffet

[Starise]

On 10/2/2021 at 7:10 AM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

What may be a sensitive subject for one Christian, may not be a sensitive subject to another.  God doesn't want lukewarm Christians, but we should be able to have civilized conversations the majority of times.  Some subjects are just to sensitive to have an agreement or even respect for another's position, but that should be in the minority.  Here are some topics sure to raise diverse opinions:

• King James Version Only
• Textus Receptus Only and all manner of other variations on what Bible translation is to be trusted
• Abortion
• Evolution and the interpretation of the Genesis Creation account (YEC vs OEC included)
• Lucifer's Flood and Noah's Flood and the events leading up to and beyond
• The Book of Enoch
• Revelation
• Baptism, infant and adult, full immersion, formula, etc.
• The Trinity
• Gifts of the Holy Spirit (healing, tongues, et al.)
• The Rapture, timing and reality of the scripture supporting it
• Canon of Holy Scripture
• Denominations, The Roman and Eastern Orthodox Catholic faiths, et al.
• The New Age Movement, pagan influence in the church, etc.
• Qualifications for one to be called a Christian
• Interpretation of Prophesies in Holy Scripture
• Other supplemental texts mentioned in the Old Testament (Book of Jasher, the Book of Gad the Seer, The War of the Sons of Light Against the Sons of Darkness, et al.)
• The Deuterocanonical Books
• Calvinism, T-U-L-I-P, Reformed Theology, free will, et al.

And all manner of other subjects.  These are just the tip of the iceberg.  These are positions I hold dear, on one side of the topic or the other as my posts have defined.  I apologize if anyone has taken what I've wrote on these topics personally.  I stand by my positions but make no accusations against other members on this forum who differ.  I respect the moderators of this forum greatly, it's a hard and sometimes thankless job.  I will personally try to make their jobs less stressful and watch more closely what I write so to be true to God's Word without being hurtful to others.

I remember being on one side of several of these issues and later after more study coming to the other side of it. I also remember how I felt and how adamant I was at that time. For this reason I think the Lord has shown me to give everyone levity on any of these issues. I recently had a brother at church in a small group, while we were making small talk during a prayer meeting tell me I was basically full of BS for saying Baptists really weren't protestants. This is a man who once pastored a large church. A man who was a military chaplain for many years. A man I really like and greatly respect who seemed to be belittling my position. One other thing I mentioned that same evening was that some protestant denominations took a few ideas from the Catholics. Do your research. I know I am correct on both of these things, yet this was anathema to this man. I had the sense he would have argued it with me at length. He told me they would "pray for me" Yeah right lol.

My point is that if it's this easy to have a misunderstanding in person, how much more difficult sometimes in a forum format where we might have a few ideas all flying around at once?

I always say I stand by my studied positions but am never too good to backpedal if I can be shown I missed something. This is why I have changed my positions on a few of these things over the years because my study indicated I had to change.

People come from different thinking persuasions. Pastors/churches often have a very powerful grip on the ideas development of a person under their teaching. I have found that some persons seemingly will NEVER back out of a theologically inconclusive position. It's almost as if they are now permanently wired for only one idea. They will holler and stop their ears any way they can to avoid any alternate conclusions. I call this stubborn, not sure what you call it. At least ENTERTAIN another idea. If a person says, I've studied it and here are all the scriptures that re enforce my views then be willing to cross reference everything to make SURE. This is one of the benefits of a site like Worthy. We can share these things.

 

[Dennis1209]

39 minutes ago, Starise said:

I always say I stand by my studied positions but am never too good to backpedal if I can be shown I missed something. This is why I have changed my positions on a few of these things over the years because my study indicated I had to change.

Same here. With the exception of Salvation; the Person of Jesus Christ and the free gift just for the asking. I've learned not to be so dogmatic in my eschatology and hermeneutics. 

I try to keep an open mind to other interpretations and thoughts, compare them to scripture and study. The more I think I am gaining knowledge, the more I realize just how little I know; and how much more there is to learn. 

Like many on here, at times I get a little carried away [cop an attitude] and a bit frustrated in the moment. I think part of it is the anonymity of being behind a computer keyboard. I always try to keep in the back of my mind; would I be talking to this person the way I am, if we were in church, or face-to-face? 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, missmuffet said:

There is only one truth if you read the Bible literally. Many give the verses in Scripture their own meaning to satisfy themselves.

https://www.gotquestions.org/interpretations-Christian.html

I disagree with your first statement.  It appears you are avoiding the question and simply using a cut and paste answer from one of your favorite websites.  If I wanted "gotquestions" to answer the questions I posed (which you ignored) I would have just gone there.  I am not impressed with Got Questions because they frequently don't have answers, just choices, two to four.  If anything, they are geared towards YEC which is patently unscientific.  They are biased.  I am highly insulted by your reply to my post.  Was that your intent?  You succeeded. 

I have 40+ years of intense Bible study and an IQ of 157, so show me where I'm wrong.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Saved.One.by.Grace

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

This answer to Saved by Grace could be taken as a mocking answer or undignified and not polite. You see it is easy to feel insult. Jesus often said woe to you Pharisees, woe to you teachers of the law. He was not polite when he wiped the merchants in the church court yard.  I say this in love.  Many times I have made answers that completely stopped an OP, not because of me but because the answer was the truth. Truth often offends such as it was with Jesus.

Thank you Brother for coming to my defense but I didn't take @Dennis1209 comment as an insult, undignified or mocking.  The Gentiles have kind of made a mess of things.

Your comment reminds everyone how Jesus was treated all the time trying save them from the teachings of the Sadducees and Pharisees.  Some people heard Jesus' message, and some did not.  Yes, not everyone is ready for the truth or able to handle it.  And there's somethings we are just not meant to know at this time.  I'd give an example but the question  could stop this Topic.