As in the Days of Noe.

[R. Hartono]

37 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

You keep stating things like this Hartono, but you usually fail to provide us with evidence from scripture. Like many, you freely post what you think it means or implies, but you do not explain why we should accept your understanding on scriptural grounds, that would be most helpful

Appealing to the foolish virgins is one things, but ignoring that the context is Jesus talking about what happens at his coming after the tribulation, is kind of improper, don't you think?

Are you saying Jesus will come to fetch the wise virgins after the great tribulation is over ?, so what good to save them n leave the foolish ones if the antichrist is dead already n the world return to peace.

 

[The Light]

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

The problem is that every single one of those texts has content indicating the event would occur in the first century, not the 19th. The Luke 17 and Mark 13 (and Matthew 24) content was plainly stated to occur in their generation.

What event do you suggest are referred to in Matt 24 or Mark 13. Care to clarify?

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

 

No one would know the day or hour but it would happen in that generation. The Revelation content is plainly stated to be at hand and things that John had seen, things that existed at that time, and things that were about to take place. Furthermore, Jesus plainly stated the disciples would experience the tribulation; they would not be raptured away. 

Well, don't you think that the disciples were not raptured away because the whole point was for them to spread the good news. Those disciples were the beginning. What we are talking about occurs at the end.

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

But most important: this conversation is getting way off topic. This op is specifically about the phrase "as in the days of Noah," found in Matthew 24:37 and Luke 17:26. Nothing more. What I have said about the days of Noah is true and correct: in the days of Noah it was those who were taken away who were destroyed. This is objectively observable by reading the Genesis 6-9 account of the flood and Jesus himself plainly stated, "...they did not understand until the flood came and took them away." They were not raptured away; the flood took them. They got killed. Jesus plainly stated, "...the flood came and destroyed them all." THAT is what happened in the days of Noah. Those who were taken away were the ones who were destroyed. So shall also the coming of the Son of man be. He said they'd see it coming and he told them to be ready for it.

The flood came and who left and who remained.? I would say the ones without the boat remained. Additionally, when Lot left Sodom, who remained?

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

Neither Matthew 24:36-41 nor Luke 17:26-36 are about a rapture. 

Matthew 24

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luke 17

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Where are they taken? They are taken to the clouds where the Lord will be, just like the scripture says.

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

They are about judgment and wrath, not escape.

Luke 21 tells that we can escape this wrath and judgement.

Luke 21

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

 

ANY teacher who teaches anything opposite or contradictory to what Jesus actually, specifically stated is teaching falsely.

Jesus says those that are taken will go to where the body is, which is in the clouds. Simple fact, those that receive judgement and wrath REMAIN on earth. All others go to the clouds and then are before the throne.

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

Stop listening to those teachers!!! 

There are two raptures. Tell me what teachers I listen to, to understand this FACT.

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

Whether a person believes the Matthew 24 and Luke 17 texts about the days of Noah are past or future..... they are not about a rapture in which Christians are gathered together and raptured off the planet. In the days of Noah it was those who remained behind who went on to live in a God initiated covenant with God. 

Genesis 9:8-17
"Then God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying, 'Now behold, I Myself do establish My covenant with you, and with your descendants after you; and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you; of all that comes out of the ark, even every beast of the earth.  I establish My covenant with you; and all flesh shall never again be cut off by the water of the flood, neither shall there again be a flood to destroy the earth.' God said, 'This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all successive generations; I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth.  It shall come about, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow will be seen in the cloud, and I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh.  When the bow is in the cloud, then I will look upon it, to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth.'  And God said to Noah, 'This is the sign of the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth.'"

That is what happened in the days of Noah.

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

 

 

.

Nah. Here's how it was in the days of Noah.

Gen 6

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

God destroyed most of mankind because of their evilness. He will do the same in the near future.

[The Light]

13 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

We pretty much agree with each other, except for some timing issues. Top biblical minds and scholars have been debating this for centuries, and are still at odds with their hermeneutic views. Whom am I? A mere Bible student holding a view.

Yes. But you can know the truth if you do one thing. Believe what the Word says.

13 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

As I've said many times here on Worthy, I'm normally not dogmatic in my views. I form my views just like you and everyone else, I'm fallible and can easily be wrong in my understanding and timings. But nonetheless, it is the view I hold. 

There are many things we are not going to know this side of Heaven, until we are with the Lord. In the last 2,000 years, there has never been a convergence of everything prophetic for our time, indicating the nearness of the Tribulation. I believe this generation is the terminal generation for many reasons. 

We are family, brothers and sisters in Christ, in Christ there is no division. We strive toward:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. [emphasis added]

Good points. But if you are going to study to show thyself approved unto God, then you should take the time to study these two groups of verses. 

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

If you truly want to understand end times, the place to start is right here in these two groups of scriptures. By realizing that these are the same events you should be able to determine that the tribulation is over BEFORE the wrath of God begins.

You can listen to a lot of teachers or you can STUDY to show yourself approved. 

All the best to you brother, and your kind heart. You seek to put what is most important first. We could all learn from you.

[Omegaman 3.0]

3 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Are you saying Jesus will come to fetch the wise virgins after the great tribulation is over ?, so what good to save them n leave the foolish ones if the antichrist is dead already n the world return to peace.

I do not see where the antichrist is dead already, in Matt 24 and 25.

But in answer to the rest I say: No sir, I am not saying what happens, what the virgins are or represent. I am merely saying that passage has a context, and it should be read and understood in the context without adding our reinterpretation to it. Just read it as it is, and accept what Jesus said, as He said it. Make the effort to notice that He give points about the sequence of events. After all, He is answering a question about when these will be, and what would be the sign of His coming (parousia - coming to be present).

There were no chapter divisions when the Bible was written, chapters 24 and 25 are the same conversation.

Matt 24 talks about the things leading to the tribulation, as you know then Jesus says starting at verse 29 of Chapter 24:

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So, at this point in His discourse He was brought the lesson to the end of the tribulation, and that He is then coming and will appear in the clouds and gather His chosen to Him. Personally, I think this is the rapture, but others disagree, I will leave it at that.

The next three verses He admonishes them to know the signs, and realize that once they come to pass, His arrival is near.

Then He goes on to say that at the time that He was telling them these things, He Himself did not know when He would be coming, and gives them the 'as in the days of Noah' part that you are familiar with.

Nest He goes into a lot of instruction to be alert, ready, watchful, etc. not to be caught off guard, which is what we should be doing, being always ready for His coming, even if it is a long time off. So far, it has been close to 2000 years!

Now in Matt 25, we are still in the same context, it is the same speech, so He continues with:

1 “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lampsa and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7 Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. etc.

That part begins with the word "Then". We should be asking:

"Then! Then when?"

That would cause us to look backward in the test to see when the when was. That brings us back to the last event He previously mentioned, namely His coming after the tribulation.

So then after the tribulation the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins, that is our context. Therefore it is not about the rapture, unless the rapture is after the tribulation.

If I had to guess the identities of the virgins, I would again look back to the context, what was Jesus just saying?

He was talking about some people who should be watching and ready, after all of these signs. So it would seem likely, considering the context, that the watchful virgins, are the same people who would be watching for Jesus return after the tribulation. The other virgins we not prepared, were caught off guard, just like all the people which the New Testament tells us will be surprised, like a thief in the night, or the people in the time of Noah, who were caught off guard when the flood came and took them all away.

The Bible is very consistent about these things, and they are hard to miss if you really scrutinize the things that it says. It all fits like fingers in a glove.

All I can say to people, is keep studying, and learn, without adding ideas which the verses to not describe! God speed in that quest.

[Cntrysner]

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Noah knew not the day or the hour of destruction by the flood until the rains came and the waters rose and took them (Noah and his family) all away.  The destruction was coming and Noah and his family were taken away from the destruction, it should be obvious the ones outside the ark were not taken away.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
 

[Justin Adams]

13 hours ago, The Light said:

don't you think that the disciples were not raptured away because

This rapture idea may just confuse the issue.

The believers that were present just prior to 70 AD and the destruction of Jerusalem escaped to Pella. There is historical documentation to this effect. "Pray you do not have to head for the hills on the Sabbath..." This was because fleeing would be difficult as the city gates would be shut then. Also, on a note of interest, Yeshua said that they should leave and head for the hills...  this is unusual since most folk would use the city as a refuge and stay there thinking they were safe. Actually, to be told to leave the safety of the city would seem out of place. However they did leave obediently and history tells us that not one believer was lost during that upheaval and escape to Pella and other safe places. They later returned to jerusalem and the early church flourished there.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Cntrysner]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

Jesus knew what was going on back then and he plainly stated those taken away were destroyed. 

No.

[Starise]

22 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

You brought up a number of interesting points. Let's start off with GMO food. Yes, most of the globe's food is GMO or related (animal feed). We still don't know the long-term generational effects of GMO food, or the effects of insects and the natural cycle. 

Who patent's, sells, controls, and strictly enforces all this GMO food with zero regulation? What if it changes, mutates or fails, or is killing beneficial pollinators and insects? To my knowledge; there is no longer any stockpiles of organic or heirloom seed any longer to feed the world? 

 

So that I don't get too far off topic here I'll just list the things we can be certain of in Noah's time-

• Men were exceedingly sinful in both time periods while they went about their business as usual. These sins included all kinds of sexual deviancy along with worship of others as gods who were really evil fallen entities or men.
• Freaks of nature outside of God's created plan existed. This was due to intervention by fallen angelic beings trying to disrupt God's original plan.

What I think we can safely infer about our present time as it relates to the time of Noah.-I'll start with what is blatantly apparent.

• The same sins as mentioned above are all over the earth embedded in much entertainment and in the lifestyles on many. cf. JEREMIAH COHEN on YouTube. The rabbit hole is very deep for anyone who wants to see.

The things that are less apparent but still going on-

• Genetic manipulation disguised as alien abduction and in secret labs all across the planet.

Much of this is carried out under the public guise of creating the 'super soldier'. What is the motive here? Satan is building an army.

If you have something made in a lab that is mostly human, is it still human? Only God gives souls.

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Starise

[DeighAnn]

On 10/20/2021 at 5:52 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Matthew 24:38 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, Luke 17:26 (KJV) And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27.  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28.  Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

 I’ve wondered why Jesus had to go back so far in history to cite His prophecy, surely there were more recent historical examples of marrying and prosperous times? Jesus mentions they were marrying and giving in marriage in the days of Noe. The Lord omits this activity in the days of Lot, another distinction. I may be incorrect, and reading something into what is not there, but “marrying and given in marriage” seem to be a division? I read “giving in marriage” as the traditional father giving away his daughter to a man for wedlock. Does “marrying” as it is repeated twice, mean any other type of sexual unions, such as homosexuality or concubinage?

 One other distinction between the days of Noah and Lot I have noticed, that I do not know if they are scripturally connected or not is “strange flesh.” In Genesis 6:4 you have the sons of God (spiritual beings) having relations with human women. In the days of Lot, you have homosexual men trying to have relations with angels (spiritual beings), a turnaround. Do you have any thoughts on this, or am I reading too much into this?

Hi Dennis

What do all three things have in common like no other time does? 

Find the common denominator. 
Keep it simple, find the answer.  
I am just putting forth some scriptures to show how they relate to each other and hopefully the words of God will answer the question.  If you would like my opinion let me know, if not, OK.   
 

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

________________________________________________

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

________________________________________________

Genesis 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

Genesis 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

__________________________________________________

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
Genesis 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
___________________________________________________
Genesis 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

Genesis 19:2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

_________________________________________________________

Genesis 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

Genesis 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

___________________________________________________

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

____________________________________________________________
Luke 23:26 And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.

Luke 23:27 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.

Luke 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

Luke 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

Luke 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

Luke 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

____________________________________
1Corinthians 11:8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

1Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

1Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

1Corinthians 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

1Corinthians 11:12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

__________________________________________________

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


d

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Noah knew not the day or the hour of destruction by the flood until the rains came and the waters rose and took them (Noah and his family) all away.  The destruction was coming and Noah and his family were taken away from the destruction, it should be obvious the ones outside the ark were not taken away.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
 

Forgot one thing, The sun moon going dark seems to be a way to say 'that age/day/time is ending and a new time is coming about. 

the sun and moon go dark when Satan is cast out, woe to earth

the sun and moon go dark  day not light or dark when Christ returns woe to those who didn't understand what was happening..


But black as sackcloth with moon of blood... that speaks volumes about what time it is....d