Isaiah 24, today?

[luigi]

2 minutes ago, Josheb said:

lol! 

If you will address what I FIRST wrote then I will happily answer your question. 

Can you not see that you just ignored what I wrote and are now asking me to accept that you've ignored but expect me to answer your questions when you will not address mine? 

Yes, I too have many comments and inquiries to make but I purposefully chose one single statement about which there should not be any division because I wanted to 1) build from consensus and 2) see whether the conversation I bring to bear on the o will be tolerated. So far it looks like the statement, "There is nothing in Isaiah 24 about the 21st century" is going to cause discourse to cease because rather than address that fact you'd prefer to shift the onus and ask me questions without first addressing my concerns. 
 

I don't read anything in that entire chapter indicating this is going to happen in the 21st century and you can quote the selected verses again and again and again ans again and as many times as you like but there's not a single word about the 21st century.

Why? You do not do so. 

The first step is to acknowledge the fact there isn't a single word in the entire chapter that even remotely mentions the 21st century. The correct answer is, "You are correct, Josh. So I have a question for you..." 

 

 

But that is not what is happening. Two pages and four exchanges in and I still don't have a response to my opening comment. Can you and will you acknowledge there's not actually a single word in the chapter mentioning or referencing the 21st century? If so then please do so in the next post so we can proceed. 

I answered your question, and now you state that I haven't. You cannot answer my question, and so you dodge it.

[Bawb]

If we are not already in the Tribulation, I am certain we are seeing the birth pains. On any given day there are over 300 earth quakes in the world. If you look at The TWO PREACHERS channel on the YouTube, we most certainly are seeing "Biblical" events before our eyes. The land is spewing us out! Also check out The Most Important News website, (For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.) The brimstone is about to hit the fan! It's time to stop the greasy grace and sloppy agape folks!

Edited November 15, 2021 by Bawb

[luigi]

1 minute ago, Josheb said:

Yes, I can explain it. 

First, the Lord was not telling us the world would be in dire straits; he is telling Jews living in the 700s BC the world (as they know it) would be in dire straits. 

 

That is the first relevant context. It does not need any explaining. You've taken two verses out of a narrative that began five chapters earlier in chapter 20 and it continues on for several more chapters, alternatively citing Egypt, Tyre, Babylon, Jerusalem, Israel, and culminating in the righteous reign of the future king (who came in the first century). 

I invite you to do a study of how scripture uses the words "world" and "earth" because it often uses those terms with hyperbole; they are not always used literally. I also encourage you to look for mentions of the Messiah in the Old Testament prophets and examine how the New Testament uses Isaiah's (or any OT prophet's) prophesies. Lastly, I encourage you to not think taking two verses out a multi-chapter narrative is a good thing AND suspect those teachers who do so. 

 

The world has been in dire straits many times in many ways. There is nothing specifically prophetic in just two verses ripped from their inherently existing contexts. The verses do NOT say the world will fall never to rise again. The verses speak of the earth, not the world. The word "world" is mentioned only once in the entire chapter. This is not about global warming and plastic in the oceans. It is best to read Isaiah in the context of God's covenant with Abraham (and Israel) and read desolation and devastation and pollution in that context. When Jesus told the Pharisees their house was desolate he was not talking about the place not having been dusted and the trashcans not being emptied. 

Isaiah 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. 20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

The hint I gave was CONTEXT. It is not the earth that shall fall never to rise again, but is the curse that is devouring the earth (Isaiah 24:6), that is causing all the famines, the pollution, the world in chaos, with refugees throughout the world (Isaiah 24:1), that shall fall never to rise again. Context.

Isaiah 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Isaiah 24:1 Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

[luigi]

When the curse that is devouring the earth falls never to rise again, what happens next? The Lord then commences to punish the earth's giants of industry, along with the earth's leaders (Isaiah 24:21), who have taken the world to the brink of extinction through the curse. If we then recognize the correlation between Isaiah 24 with the events in Revelation 11, we see that at the conclusion of the beasts 42 month reign in power, when the Lord commences to reign (Revelation 11:15), is when the Lord then commences to destroy those who have been destroying the earth (Revelation 11:18). Do you recognize the correlation between Isaiah 24:21 with Revelation 11:18?

Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 

Revelation 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

[luigi]

Just now, Josheb said:

Yes, I understood what was posted. Bad stuff was going to happen to the Jews and it was going to be pervasive. 

Ask yourself a few questions like, "What knowledge did the Eighth Century BC reader have of the Americas? What did the word, "world" mean to them (because it means something much, much different to us in modernity than it did to them). Yes, God has always known the world was this huge globe spinning in space with people in nearly all its places from the highest mountains to the deepest valleys, from the most austere deserts to the lushest or rain forests, 

but the Jews of the 8th century BC knew none of that. 

The words "world" and "earth" meant something different to them and it is completely inappropriate to impose 21st century knowledge on 8th century people. This is especially so when God through the prophet is speaking about then existing conditions. The future events would occur because of then-existing conditions, not conditions that were yet to occur. God was going to judge Israel because of its faithlessness. That is the context for the Isaiah text(s). 

There's nothing about the 21st century in the two verses quoted and there is nothing about the 21st century in the entire chapter. 

 

So I think you for answering your question and I have answered yours. 

 

So I have two questions for you.

 

1) Without appealing to any other passage in the Bible....  Given the fact there isn't anything in the entire chapter referencing the 21st century, why is Isaiah 24:1-2 read to be about a time period in our future that isn't actually mentioned in the text? 

 

2) Where does the New Testament mention the Isaiah 24 narrative and what does the NT say about that narrative. Since the Isaiah 24 narrative covers several chapters I'll open that op to any New Testament mention of Isaiah 20-35, if you like. To clarify: I am not asking for New Testament passages you believe are relevant to Isaiah because your eschatology says there is a connection. I am asking about where the New Testament itself either mentions or quotes or otherwise explicitly references the Isaiah texts in question. 

The Lord parallels the unbelievers in His day with those in Sodom and Gomorrah, and with those in the end times.

The unbelievers in truth, justice, and love during the days of Isaiah in the eighth century BC will likewise be held in accountable with the unbelievers in truth, justice, and love in the end times.

One of the reasons why the Lord provides these end times data in Isaiah, Daniel, Revelation, the Olivet discourse, along with other books of the bible is to show the culmination of mans endeavors without faith in what is right to do. The faithless in what is right to do, will always lean on what they see benefits their flesh the most. This includes the destruction of the planet by the giants of the earth who pay earths rulers to enact their environmentally destructive policies.

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

Maybe, not exactly today,...but the signs are it's coming in fast.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Yes.

[luigi]

9 minutes ago, Josheb said:

That is not an answer to either of my queries. Let me know now: am I going to have to ask every questions three or four times before getting an answer?

 

1) Without appealing to any other passage in the Bible....  Given the fact there isn't anything in the entire chapter referencing the 21st century, why is Isaiah 24:1-2 read to be about a time period in our future that isn't actually mentioned in the text? 

 

2) Where does the New Testament mention the Isaiah 24 narrative and what does the NT say about that narrative? Since the Isaiah 24 narrative covers several chapters I'll open that op to any New Testament mention of Isaiah 20-35, if you like. To clarify: I am not asking for New Testament passages you believe are relevant to Isaiah because your eschatology says there is a connection. I am asking about where the New Testament itself either mentions, quotes or otherwise explicitly references the Isaiah texts in question. 

Josheb, If Revelation 11 is soon, and as I have shown Isaiah 24 correlates with the events in Revelation 11; the events in Isaiah 24 would then also be soon.

Revelation 11 also does not state it's 21st century, but it's a given for many of us.

 

[FortifiedbyFaith]

This is an excerpt worth the read regarding Isaiah -

THE BOOK OF ISAIAH by Ronald Taylor

The Book of Isaiah in the Old Testament was written between 700 B.C. and 680 B.C. It contains sixty-six chapters. Liberal theologians, in their never-ending quest to discredit God's Word, claim that Isaiah was written by two different people.

The reason for this is clear. Isaiah is broken into two parts. The first part is described by Bible scholars as "The Book of Judgement" and the second part is "The Book of Comfort". So different are these two parts that some scholars believe they were written by different people. However, one would think that a believer, a person of faith, would believe that the Book of Isaiah was written by one person, because that is what the Bible says.

The Lord, in His foreknowledge, provided His opinion on the subject of two authors of Isaiah, long before the liberal theologians came up with their discrediting theory. The Apostle John, in John 12:38-40, quotes from both The Book of Judgement and The Book of Comfort. Specifically, he quotes from Isaiah 6:10 and 53:1. John ascribes both of the quotes to Isaiah the Prophet. He does not quote Isaiah number one and Isaiah number two. The Holy Spirit, through John, says the Book of Isaiah was written by one person.

Even more interesting, the Book of Judgement is thirty-nine chapters long; the same as the Old Testament. The Book of Comfort is twenty-seven chapters long; the same as the New Testament. There are some who would claim this is a coincidence. Dr. Gary Stearman has done a study showing that each chapter of Isaiah follows the theme of the corresponding book of the Bible. There are sixty-six chapters and sixty-six books.

Isaiah chapter forty is the first chapter of The Book of Comfort. This second part of Isaiah represents the New Testament. Isaiah 40:3 says "A voice of one calling; In the desert prepare the way for the Lord." Chapter three of Luke describes the ministry of John the Baptist and quotes Isaiah 40:3. This is a suitable introduction for The Book of Comfort.

The last chapter of Isaiah, chapter sixty-six, asks an interesting question. "Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in moment?" (Isaiah 66:8). This is interesting because it is exactly what occurred in 1948. Israel was created in a day by decree of the United Nations. The chapter, which according to Dr. Stearman represents the Revelation, also says "the Lord is coming with fire" (Isaiah 66:15) and speaks of "the new heavens and the new earth" (Isaiah 66:22). These are both themes or ideas from the Revelation.

The concept of Isaiah being divided into two parts representing the Old Testament and the New Testament is fascinating. Even more so is the idea that each chapter represents a book of the Bible. I believe this is further confirmation that the entire Bible is divinely inspired and that from the beginning, the Lord knew the end (Isaiah 46:10).

In God's Word, there are no accidents or coincidences. We have received exactly the scripture that He intended we receive. And the Book of Isaiah demonstrates this. May the Name of the Lord be praised forever!

https://luke810.com/bo1.htm

My thoughts are Isaiah is the most powerful prophet in the Old Testament and as outlined above he does prophesy to the distant future (our generation 1948 Israel becomes a nation) from his times as noted by Dr. Stearman.

[angels4u]

On 11/14/2021 at 9:37 AM, luigi said:

Isaiah 24:1 Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty (Famines), and maketh it waste (pollution), and turneth it upside down (mans policies no longer functioning), and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof (Refugees).

Hi Luigi,

I believe in this chapter God is warning the world that He is going to cleanse and judge the earth,He will judge the Christ rejecting world  ( 7 years tribulation) at the moment we're still living in the church age .God will have the last final word and He will bring the powers down who reject Him , the chapter talks about the tribulation and then the millennial will begin and suffering will end. Stay strong and trust the Lord ? 

 

[angels4u]

38 minutes ago, FortifiedbyFaith said:

This is an excerpt worth the read regarding Isaiah -

THE BOOK OF ISAIAH by Ronald Taylor

The Book of Isaiah in the Old Testament was written between 700 B.C. and 680 B.C. It contains sixty-six chapters. Liberal theologians, in their never-ending quest to discredit God's Word, claim that Isaiah was written by two different people.

The reason for this is clear. Isaiah is broken into two parts. The first part is described by Bible scholars as "The Book of Judgement" and the second part is "The Book of Comfort". So different are these two parts that some scholars believe they were written by different people. However, one would think that a believer, a person of faith, would believe that the Book of Isaiah was written by one person, because that is what the Bible says.

The Lord, in His foreknowledge, provided His opinion on the subject of two authors of Isaiah, long before the liberal theologians came up with their discrediting theory. The Apostle John, in John 12:38-40, quotes from both The Book of Judgement and The Book of Comfort. Specifically, he quotes from Isaiah 6:10 and 53:1. John ascribes both of the quotes to Isaiah the Prophet. He does not quote Isaiah number one and Isaiah number two. The Holy Spirit, through John, says the Book of Isaiah was written by one person.

Even more interesting, the Book of Judgement is thirty-nine chapters long; the same as the Old Testament. The Book of Comfort is twenty-seven chapters long; the same as the New Testament. There are some who would claim this is a coincidence. Dr. Gary Stearman has done a study showing that each chapter of Isaiah follows the theme of the corresponding book of the Bible. There are sixty-six chapters and sixty-six books.

Isaiah chapter forty is the first chapter of The Book of Comfort. This second part of Isaiah represents the New Testament. Isaiah 40:3 says "A voice of one calling; In the desert prepare the way for the Lord." Chapter three of Luke describes the ministry of John the Baptist and quotes Isaiah 40:3. This is a suitable introduction for The Book of Comfort.

The last chapter of Isaiah, chapter sixty-six, asks an interesting question. "Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in moment?" (Isaiah 66:8). This is interesting because it is exactly what occurred in 1948. Israel was created in a day by decree of the United Nations. The chapter, which according to Dr. Stearman represents the Revelation, also says "the Lord is coming with fire" (Isaiah 66:15) and speaks of "the new heavens and the new earth" (Isaiah 66:22). These are both themes or ideas from the Revelation.

The concept of Isaiah being divided into two parts representing the Old Testament and the New Testament is fascinating. Even more so is the idea that each chapter represents a book of the Bible. I believe this is further confirmation that the entire Bible is divinely inspired and that from the beginning, the Lord knew the end (Isaiah 46:10).

In God's Word, there are no accidents or coincidences. We have received exactly the scripture that He intended we receive. And the Book of Isaiah demonstrates this. May the Name of the Lord be praised forever!

https://luke810.com/bo1.htm

My thoughts are Isaiah is the most powerful prophet in the Old Testament and as outlined above he does prophesy to the distant future (our generation 1948 Israel becomes a nation) from his times as noted by Dr. Stearman.

I'm studying Isaiah and it's amazing to read the chapters in the world were living in, we're living in Biblical days....