Is hell a real place or just a pagan notion adopted by early Christianity?

[Dennis1209]

9 hours ago, Sower said:

Wonder where all those people are right now who were in the fire? I don't believe the Earth is the place for the Eternal fires of hell, or gnashing of teeth.

That's an interesting question. My thoughts are; shᵉʼôwl (O.T. Hebrew) and háidēs (N.T. Greek) are the same place, both translated as Hell in some translations. I liken Hell to a temporary holding place, comparable to our jails. After judgment and sentencing (Great White Throne), they are transferred to eternal prison (Lake of Fire). 

Matthew 8:12 (KJV) But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus was standing upon the earth when He said this. It seems to me, if this was underfoot, He would have said, inner darkness instead of outer darkness? Outer means isolated, away and separated, and the absence of light. Is this the absence of the Light (God), physical light waves, or both? I surmise it is the eternal separation from the Light (God). 

By the same token, if you are a Christian, you are in the light. If one is unsaved, it can be said it is a condition, they are already in outer darkness, being casted away, them weeping and gnashing teeth. 

The Greek word gnashing (brugmŏs) is interesting. The context is not only pain, but anger, and still rebelling and shaking their fist at God. 

Revelation 14:10 (KJV) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

This is interesting. With the two sides of Haides (Abraham's bosom paradise & torment side), divided by a great gulf; the "rich man" was able to communicate with Abraham. The rich man still had his wits and physical senses. In the verse above, the holy angels and Jesus will be personally there witnessing it? 

I'm wondering if "outer darkness" is not so much distance, as it might be dimensional? Lots of pondering and speculation here on my part. 

 

[Riverwalker]

Matthew 10:28

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell

It is a real place..... it is an outer darkness where there is great weeping and gnashing of teeth (no devils with pitch forks). It is death, a place of waiting for judgment day and the final destination. The lake of fire where the lost meet their second death

Remember  pagans were just trying to explain the same truth that we all know, that God is, and there is a heaven and there is a hell

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Riverwalker

[missmuffet]

It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.
The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).

https://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by missmuffet

[johnthebaptist]

18 hours ago, Bawb said:

Is hell a real place or just a pagan notion adopted by early Christianity?

Originally Posted on January 16, 2018 by Yahweh's Restoration Ministries

Is hell a real place or just a pagan notion adopted by early Christianity? Also, does the Bible show that the fallen angels go to hell?

We believe that hell is a real place, but not as most believe. To understand this concept, it’s crucial to understand a few Hebrew and Greek words found in the Old and New testaments.

The Old Testament contains the word “sheol.” It appears 66 times and is rendered in the KJV as, “grave, hell and pit.” It does not refer to a place of ever-burning torment. The Greek equivalent to sheol is “hades.” Even though both words originally referred to the grave or to the place where the righteous and wicked go at death, hades took on a new meaning through Hellenistic influence to include concepts of a place of torture or imprisonment.

Authors Alan F. Johnson and Robert E. Webber explain this transformation in their book, What Christians Believe–A Biblical and Historical Summary: “In the intertestamental period there were significant developments in eschatological themes. The first relates to the development of a compartmental view of sheol. When the righteous and the wicked die, they go to different places. This is to be contrasted with the Old Testament view that sheol is the place where both the righteous and wicked go. Under the growing influence of Greek concepts of a distinct body and soul, some Jews taught that after death ‘the immortal and perishable soul, once detached from the ties of the flesh and thus freed from bondage, flies happily upwards’

…On the other hand the wicked go to sheol, which is now identified with the Greek hades. This region of damnation is also called gehenna, a place of eternal fire (originally the old rubbish heap and a place of child sacrifice south of Mount Zion in Jerusalem). It was known as the Valley of Hinnom,” pp. 423-424.

As this source confirms, sheol and hades originally both referred to the grave. However, as Greek influence spread within the early church, these terms took on new meanings, including separate places for the righteous and wicked. In addition, the concept of an immortal soul was introduced, which is also foreign to Scripture. In fact, the term “immortal soul” never appears in the Bible. Many scholars believe this notion of an immortal soul arose through ancient Egypt, which was later adopted by the Greeks and eventually introduced to the Church.

A third word associated with the concept of “hell” is the Greek “gehenna.” This term refers to the Valley of Hinnom, a large valley positioned on the south side of the city of Jerusalem. It was in this valley where Israel would throw their trash. For this reason, this valley was perpetually burning. As a side note, this is also where Israel sacrificed their children to Molech. It is from this valley and practice where the concept of an ever-burning hell-fire arose.

So while the Bible does confirm a place of fiery judgment, it is not a place of perpetual burning or torment. When the Bible speaks about someone suffering hell-fire or gehenna, it’s referring to their complete destruction.

There are a few key passages confirming that hell-fire does not refer to an ever-burning or perpetual place of torment. For instance, Judah 7 states that Sodom and Gomorrah suffered the example of “eternal fire.” Interestingly, Sodom and Gomorrah are no longer burning. In 2016 when we toured the ancient site of Gomorrah, we found only ash and scattered sulfur balls. Nothing else of the ancient city remained.

A similar example in found in Jeremiah 7:20. It states there, “Therefore thus saith my Sovereign Yahweh; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.” This passage is referring to Jerusalem’s destruction by the Babylonians. As with Gomorrah, there is no perpetual fire burning today in Jerusalem.

The phrases “eternal fire” and “shall not be quenched” do not refer to a perpetual or ever-burning hell-fire, but to the totality of Yahweh’s destruction. Sodom and Gomorrah suffered complete annihilation by fire from heaven. In like manner, Judah suffered complete destruction by Babylon.

The concept of ever-burning fire is not biblical, but one that crept in through Greek teachings. It’s important to realize that many of today’s church teachings originated through Hellenistic influence within the early church, including other doctrines such as Sunday worship and many of today’s popular holidays.

There is one last word associated with a place of judgment and that is “Tartaros.” This word is mentioned only once in 2Peter 2:4 and is associated with the place of judgment for the angels who rebelled. Greek mythology also refers to this term and believes it resides under hades. It’s important to realize that this definition is not based on Scripture, but Greek mythology. The Bible itself does not provide a location for this term. It is also unclear from the Greek tense whether this is past or future. Even though the KJV shows this is past tense, this judgment is likely future tense.

I believe hell is the misery we feel from the consequences of our sin.

[debrakay]

So many people do not even want to try to discuss or try to comprehend how a loving Father God would or could ever send a human being to an eternal place of torment and damnation.  It's okay to believe the good parts (happiness and eternal life with God) but "heaven" forbid we even think about eternal damnation....forever condemned, or discuss it.

My Christian mother and I had a discussion about eternal life one day many decades ago.  Her father was a good man, a good father to his only child, and helped many people.  He did not believe in God and called himself an atheist.  She mentioned she would be so happy when she saw him in heaven again.  I mentioned all that Jesus says about those who believe in Him and accept his gift of forgiveness and salvation and what happens to those who do not acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah.  She became very angry and defensive and shouted that her father was a good man and would be saved.  She said we would never discuss this again and we never did.  People, even believers, do not like to think that someone they love and adore will end up in a place of everlasting torment but the truth is the truth.

God's word is God's word revealed to those who love him and are called according to his purpose.  Romans 8:28 tells us, "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."  Each human being, which has the Spirit of God in them, is called to come to the Father. Choosing to hear or not is the freewill clause being activated.  He is a Father who wants every single human soul to be with him forever and ever but only if we choose Him.  We choose to be with Him in body (on earth) and in spirit (in the heavenly realm).  Or not.

John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.

John 10:28-30 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.

John 14:6 - Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

People do not like to discuss or contemplate hell but they have no problem with heaven.  

[Mama Etna]

I tend to rely on scripture itself when it comes to difficult topics like this.  People don't like to talk about hell or other unpleasant topics.  Here is what the Bible actually has to say about hell.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. --  Revelation 21:8

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. -- Matthew 10:28

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. -- Revelation 20:10

Because it is written in scripture, It does not have pagan origins, but comes from the LORD Himself.  It is a place for the devil, his demons and people who reject God.

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, johnthebaptist said:

I believe hell is the misery we feel from the consequences of our sin.

Hell is the consequence of those who do not believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. God doesn't send people to hell they send themselves to hell. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by missmuffet

[Amigo42]

@Josheb You make a very good point in your discussion of Jesus using language of the Pagans but not necessarily confirming a pagan view of judgment.  That's the key that so many Christians get wrong when trying to interpret the Bible from a completely literally standpoint.  Sometimes language is used to convey a meaning beyond what the words themselves actually appear to say especially when talking about etymology from a Jewish perspective.  No, there is no eternal suffering for any sinner.  There's no amount of sin a person can commit to be worthy of not millions, not billions, but eternity in suffering for a short life of sin in this world.  It just doesn't make sense, isn't Biblical, and Christians really need to stop teaching these lies and corrupted doctrines.

[Marathoner]

4 hours ago, Amigo42 said:

@Josheb You make a very good point in your discussion of Jesus using language of the Pagans but not necessarily confirming a pagan view of judgment.  That's the key that so many Christians get wrong when trying to interpret the Bible from a completely literally standpoint.  Sometimes language is used to convey a meaning beyond what the words themselves actually appear to say especially when talking about etymology from a Jewish perspective.  No, there is no eternal suffering for any sinner.  There's no amount of sin a person can commit to be worthy of not millions, not billions, but eternity in suffering for a short life of sin in this world.  It just doesn't make sense, isn't Biblical, and Christians really need to stop teaching these lies and corrupted doctrines.

Indeed. Destruction is what the lake of fire is all about. The last enemy to be destroyed by the Lord God Almighty --- who is Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God --- is death. Death is accordingly cast into the lake of fire, a scriptural example of what destruction means. Death exists no more. 

I suppose the lake of fire is approximated by "Hell" and "Gehenna," the latter of which we know was the trash heap outside of Jerusalem where the flames are never quenched. We note the association of fire with both. According to my understanding,

Sheol and Hades = The grave, emptied by virtue of the second resurrection when the dead are raised to be judged by God.
Gehenna and Hell = The lake of fire called the second death, the destination of death, hades (sheol), and those whose names are not written in the book of life. 

I emphasized "dead" above because this is an important distinction from the scriptural perspective, expanded upon greatly in the New Testament. Who are the dead, then? Considering the different renderings of the dead in the entirety of the scriptures, knowing that our God is a God of the living (and not the dead), I say that the dead are those who are not in Christ.  

Edited November 22, 2021 by Marathoner

[MrBear]

On 11/18/2021 at 2:59 PM, johnthebaptist said:

I believe hell is the misery we feel from the consequences of our sin.

This is my theory also, that the weeping and gnashing of teeth is a torment not of physical but emotional torment knowing when judgment comes you will face the final death and not spend eternity with the Father.

When Jonah died after he was tossed over the boat and before the fish scooped his body off of the sea floor he prayed to God from the land of the dead ( Sheol) something they didn’t tell us in Sunday school his death

Jonah 2:5

Flood waters encompassed me,
    the deep surrounded me
        while seaweed wrapped around my head.
 I sank to the roots of the mountains;
    the earth’s prison bars ( Sheol) closed around me forever.
        Yet you resurrect the dead from the Pit, Lord my God!

Jesus knew the miracle of Jonah was the resurrection dead in the fish until God reunited his spirit with flesh when the fish spit him out

Matthew 12:40

Jonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of a big fish. The Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the grave also.

So leads me to believe these places are very real as revealed by scripture

SHALOM❤️