When is 'the Church' judged?

[DeighAnn]

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

To me this happens when Christ returns as King of kings and Lord of lords.  Is that not the majority understanding?  If not how does the church get raptured before death and judgment?  

Is there anyone who believes in pre trib rapture willing to answer a bunch of questions?  
 

Edited December 7, 2021 by DeighAnn
didn't hit the post button again

[Diaste]

 

When is the church judged?

First. 

Judgment begins at the house of God.

1 Peter 4:17

 

[AdHoc]

19 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

To me this happens when Christ returns as King of kings and Lord of lords.  Is that not the majority understanding?  If not how does the church get raptured before death and judgment?  

Is there anyone who believes in pre trib rapture willing to answer a bunch of questions?  
 

The evidence is found in the "Seat" before which we are judged. In this age our Lord Jesus sat in His Father's THRONE ("thronos" - Gk.) Then, in Revelation 4  our Lord Jesus is given His Throne, "and it is set in heaven". Some time later, our Lord arrives on earth after pausing in the clouds. On His arrival on earth He sets up His Throne on earth to judge "ALL Nations" (Matt.25:31-32). But the Church is not judged at Christ's Throne. Romans 14:10 and 2nd Corinthians 5:10 say that we are judged at the "BEMA". The "Bema" is a substitute throne for when the ruler was doing a journey away from the seat of power. The answer thus is, we are judged when our Lord Jesus is on a journey, not in heaven and not on earth. I judge the only place where this can happen is in the clouds after Rapture. 

This is somewhat strengthened by the Ten Virgins. In Matthew 25:5-6 we learn;

⁶ And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

The Bridegroom "COMES" - He is on a journey. The Virgins RISE and go forth to meet Him. There it is decided who may enter the Wedding Feast. 

 

[DeighAnn]

50 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

The evidence is found in the "Seat" before which we are judged. In this age our Lord Jesus sat in His Father's THRONE ("thronos" - Gk.)

He isn't given his throne here,    as we will see clearly see in REV 5.  And notice HE IS REFERRED TO AS THE LAMB in almost the entire book.  
 

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and ONE sat on the throne.

This doesn't mention the One who sat at the right hand on the throne just the One who sat upon it.  


WE STILL have ONE on the throne and we are ABOUT to have the LAMB APPEAR.  SO Jesus hadn't been crucified in Revelation 4 and so had not ascended yet to the throne

 

Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Revelation 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

The church is not to be raptured CAUGHT UP for another 2000 or so years FROM THIS POINT IN TIME  NOT UNTIL He returns as Lord of lords and King of kings.  ALL THIS TIME HE IS STILL REFERED TO AS THE LAMB

Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

AND EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AND THE EYES OF THEM WHO PIERCED HIM.....


Revelation 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

The church can't be raptured caught up until after the seals are opened.  


Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains  16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb



Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands  10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.


Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on His throne;

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Acts 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


 

Zechariah 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

Zechariah 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Zechariah 6:14 And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah, and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah, for a memorial in the temple of the LORD.

Zechariah 6:15 And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.


 

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
which is on earth

Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

I judge the only place where this can happen is in the clouds after Rapture. 

You want to know a time when it would be SUPER EASY to Judge the WHOLE WORLD ALL AT ONE TIME?

When Christ returns as Lord of lords and King of kings BECAUSE EVERY LIVING SOULS ON THE PLANET WILL HAVE THE MARK OF THE BEAST (THE DEAD AKA SPIRITUALLY DEAD)

Or they will have THEIR LAMPS STILL LIT, HAVING TAKEN WITH THEM ENOUGH OIL SO AS NOT TO GO BUY AND SELL.  


IT WILL BE LIKE WE ALMOST JUDGED OURSELVES.  OUR ACTIONS WILL SPEAK LOUDER THAN ANY WORDS EVER COULD.  ALSO HELPS UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 'DEAD' AND THE 'ALIVE (SPIRITUALLY ALIVE AND WITHOUT THE MARK HAVING WITHSTOOD, REMAINED FAITHFUL AND ENDURED TO THE END) AND REMAINING WHO WILL NOT 'DIE' BUT INSTEAD WILL BE CHANGED TO BE FOREVER WITH THE LORD.  


please forgive the CAPITOLS I am tired and didn't want to go back and rewrite it all.  THANK you   d

[DeighAnn]

3 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Gotta go.

Yes, me too.  Maybe in awhile we will talk again...

[The Light]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

He isn't given his throne here,    as we will see clearly see in REV 5.  And notice HE IS REFERRED TO AS THE LAMB in almost the entire book.  
 

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and ONE sat on the throne.

This doesn't mention the One who sat at the right hand on the throne just the One who sat upon it.  


WE STILL have ONE on the throne and we are ABOUT to have the LAMB APPEAR.  SO Jesus hadn't been crucified in Revelation 4 and so had not ascended yet to the throne

 

If Jesus hasn't been crucified yet in Revelation 4, how is it that He overcame and is set down with His Father in His throne in Rev 3. 

Rev 3

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Also, we are told in Rev 4 that these are things that must happen hereafter. Hereafter what?

Rev 4

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Additionally, we see 24 elders in heaven with Crowns.

Rev 4

10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

What had to have occurred BEFORE these elders could receive their crowns.

The Church is already in heaven in Rev 5 before the seals are opened.

Rev 5

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The Church will be made kings and priests

Rev 1

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

[The Light]

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Revelation 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

The church is not to be raptured CAUGHT UP for another 2000 or so years FROM THIS POINT IN TIME  NOT UNTIL He returns as Lord of lords and King of kings.  ALL THIS TIME HE IS STILL REFERED TO AS THE LAMB

This is not correct. He doesn't return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords until IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBUALTION OF THOSE DAYS. He pinpoints His coming. And yet He tells you He will come in an hour that you think not. He tells you But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched,

He is coming for his bride the Church and telling you to WATCH. What are you watching for? The Antichirst? The tribulation? No you should be watching for:

Luke 21

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

WHAT THINGS? You should be looking for these things found in Matt 24.

Matt 24

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

When He comes the second time as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, He will come immediately after the tribulation of those days at the 6th seal, just prior to the wrath of God.

He is coming for the 12 tribes across the earth. Do you think He will come in an hour that they think not? No. They will be fully aware of exactly when He come.

1 Thes 5

 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

He is coming at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets, the time of the fall fruit harvest.

He is coming for the 12 tribes across the earth, at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation, just prior to the wrath of God, THE DAY OF THE LORD.

As for the Jews in the nation of Israel that flee to a place of protection, they HAVE NOT accepted Jesus as Messiah prior to His appearing, so they remain on the earth during the wrath of God. Only part of the Jews have their blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes at the rapture of the Church.

Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

You want to know a time when it would be SUPER EASY to Judge the WHOLE WORLD ALL AT ONE TIME?

Do you think after all these years that God is interested in easy? Anyway, all He has to do is speak the Word.

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

When Christ returns as Lord of lords and King of kings BECAUSE EVERY LIVING SOULS ON THE PLANET WILL HAVE THE MARK OF THE BEAST (THE DEAD AKA SPIRITUALLY DEAD)

Or they will have THEIR LAMPS STILL LIT, HAVING TAKEN WITH THEM ENOUGH OIL SO AS NOT TO GO BUY AND SELL.  


IT WILL BE LIKE WE ALMOST JUDGED OURSELVES.  OUR ACTIONS WILL SPEAK LOUDER THAN ANY WORDS EVER COULD.  ALSO HELPS UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 'DEAD' AND THE 'ALIVE (SPIRITUALLY ALIVE AND WITHOUT THE MARK HAVING WITHSTOOD, REMAINED FAITHFUL AND ENDURED TO THE END) AND REMAINING WHO WILL NOT 'DIE' BUT INSTEAD WILL BE CHANGED TO BE FOREVER WITH THE LORD.  


 

When Christ returns the 1st time, it will be in an hour that you think not. He is coming for the Church, His bride. No one will know when the bridegroom will come. When he comes the foolish virgins will be told that He does not know them. The doors are shut, even as the ark was shut 7 days before the flood. 

When He comes as King of Kings, the twelve tribes will know exactly when He will come and he is coming just before the Day of the Lord begins even as the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. He is coming for His true love after 7 years even as Jacob worked 7 more years for His true love.

Learn the parable of the fig tree, it has two harvests.

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

He isn't given his throne here,    as we will see clearly see in REV 5.  And notice HE IS REFERRED TO AS THE LAMB in almost the entire book.  
 

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and ONE sat on the throne.

This doesn't mention the One who sat at the right hand on the throne just the One who sat upon it.  


WE STILL have ONE on the throne and we are ABOUT to have the LAMB APPEAR.  SO Jesus hadn't been crucified in Revelation 4 and so had not ascended yet to the throne

 

Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Revelation 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

The church is not to be raptured CAUGHT UP for another 2000 or so years FROM THIS POINT IN TIME  NOT UNTIL He returns as Lord of lords and King of kings.  ALL THIS TIME HE IS STILL REFERED TO AS THE LAMB

Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

AND EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AND THE EYES OF THEM WHO PIERCED HIM.....


Revelation 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

The church can't be raptured caught up until after the seals are opened.  


Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains  16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb



Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands  10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.


Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on His throne;

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Acts 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


 

Zechariah 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

Zechariah 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Zechariah 6:14 And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah, and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah, for a memorial in the temple of the LORD.

Zechariah 6:15 And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.


 

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
which is on earth

Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

You want to know a time when it would be SUPER EASY to Judge the WHOLE WORLD ALL AT ONE TIME?

When Christ returns as Lord of lords and King of kings BECAUSE EVERY LIVING SOULS ON THE PLANET WILL HAVE THE MARK OF THE BEAST (THE DEAD AKA SPIRITUALLY DEAD)

Or they will have THEIR LAMPS STILL LIT, HAVING TAKEN WITH THEM ENOUGH OIL SO AS NOT TO GO BUY AND SELL.  


IT WILL BE LIKE WE ALMOST JUDGED OURSELVES.  OUR ACTIONS WILL SPEAK LOUDER THAN ANY WORDS EVER COULD.  ALSO HELPS UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 'DEAD' AND THE 'ALIVE (SPIRITUALLY ALIVE AND WITHOUT THE MARK HAVING WITHSTOOD, REMAINED FAITHFUL AND ENDURED TO THE END) AND REMAINING WHO WILL NOT 'DIE' BUT INSTEAD WILL BE CHANGED TO BE FOREVER WITH THE LORD.  


please forgive the CAPITOLS I am tired and didn't want to go back and rewrite it all.  THANK you   d

Hello d

Thank you for a comprehensive posting. Here are a couple of my observations.

You didn't actually answer, or counter my posting. Your only objection is that our Lord Jesus does not get His throne in Revelation Chapter 4. But that is what scripture says:

Rev.4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Then you objected to the timing. But that was not part of my argument. Whenever it happens, Jesus sits on His throne in heaven. Whenever it happens, our Lord Jesus sits on His throne on earth in Matthew 25:31-32. But the Church is NOT judged before His throne. It is judged before the Bema - not "thronos".

But let me comment on the timing you alluded to. In the original text there are no Chapters or verses. That is, Chapter 4 isa continuation of Chapter 3, and it reads in verse 1; 

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

The last things mentioned in Chapter 3 is the threat of our Lord's COMING to the Churches. So "after this", according to the grammar, pertains to something that happens after our Lord has come for His Churches. The Book of Revelation concerns events that are connected to the "REVEALING" of Jesus - that is, the last few years of this age. The coronation and enthronement of Jesus is right at the end when He gets the command from the Father to sort things out on earth. For this, He needs a crown and a throne. Revelation 4 onward covers only the last few years of this age. That is why you never hear of the Churches again after Chapter 3. They are visited by the Lord already - as a thief.

[Dennis1209]

On 12/6/2021 at 8:40 PM, DeighAnn said:

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

To me this happens when Christ returns as King of kings and Lord of lords.  Is that not the majority understanding?  If not how does the church get raptured before death and judgment?  

Is there anyone who believes in pre trib rapture willing to answer a bunch of questions?  
 

Good morning,

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

In my view, there seems to be two judgments and three resurrections. The Bema Seat judgment (which AdHoc addressed), which is not actually a judgment. It is an account of our lives, why we did the things in our lives that we did. I believe this occurs in Heaven during the seven-year Tribulation on earth. I think this is when we get our crowns (if any), rewards, responsibilities and millennial assignments.

I further believe, the marriage of the Lamb to His bride, also occurs in Heaven during this Tribulation period. We Christians and the Army of Heaven accompany Christ's second coming back to Earth, to conclude the Tribulation. I think in the period between the close of the Tribulation (30- & 45-day extensions of the 1,260 days in Daniel), and the beginning of the millennium much happens. 

The second Resurrection occurs, the Old Testament saints and Tribulation saints are resurrected. The sheep and goat judgment occurs, whom is allowed to enter the millennium, whom is cast in to outer darkness, setting up the Kingdom, etc. I believe this is where and when the marriage supper of the Lamb occurs, on earth after Jesus second coming. 

The marriage is to the bride of Christ (the church, all believers in the church age). Matthew 22:10 (KJV) So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

I suspect these wedding guests spoken of in Matthew, are the Resurrected Old Testament Saints, and the Resurrected Tribulation saints in attendance on earth for the celebration. 

The final resurrection occurs at the end of the millennium at the Great White Throne Judgment. All the dead of all time (non-believers), are bodily resurrected and judged. Those now in a temporary place of torment (Haides) are cast into the Lake of Fire, prepared for the Devil and his angels (the second death, eternal), along with "death." Satan was the cause and father of death. After the millennium, there will be no more death. 

Just a picture and view I have of the events and timing

 

 

[Dennis1209]

9 hours ago, The Light said:

If Jesus hasn't been crucified yet in Revelation 4, how is it that He overcame and is set down with His Father in His throne in Rev 3. 

Rev 3

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Also, we are told in Rev 4 that these are things that must happen hereafter. Hereafter what?

Rev 4

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Additionally, we see 24 elders in heaven with Crowns.

Rev 4

10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

What had to have occurred BEFORE these elders could receive their crowns.

The Church is already in heaven in Rev 5 before the seals are opened.

Rev 5

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The Church will be made kings and priests

Rev 1

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

In addition, angels and the heavenly host are never said to have or receive crowns from the Lord, only men. To me the symbology is clear, between Revelation chapters three and four, something changed. The church is mentioned 19 times in the first three chapters of Revelation, and not mentioned again until the nineteenth chapter. The focus suddenly changes from earth to heaven, and the sudden appearance of the twenty-four Elders, and a NEW song. From here on out, the focus has changed to Israel, the gentiles, and judgment. 

I don't think I'm reading too much into it?