Sabbath Issues

[R. Hartono]

3 hours ago, other one said:

Jesus admitted working on the Sabbath so if it was still in force he sinned and we are all going to hell. 

Brilliant explanation to rebuke Acute Theologians.

 

 

[Bawb]

17 hours ago, other one said:

Jesus admitted working on the Sabbath so if it was still in force he sinned and we are all going to hell. 

Surely, you do the devil's work for him.

Let's talk about Yeshua "working". How was He "working"? He was healing people on the Sabbath. This was His "Works". He wasn't mowing His lawn or raking leaves, was he?

Did He or did He not ask the Pharisee's if it was a bad/unholy or a good/holy thing to do before He healed people?

He was just waiting on them to blaspheme and say it was unholy.

 Yehsua taught and healed on the Sabbath. This is well documented. Thus, He followed His Father's Laws by "Remembering the Sabbath" and by healing people on it, He kept it Holy.

[other one]

4 hours ago, Bawb said:

Let's talk about Yeshua "working". How was He "working"

It matters not......   4th command is to do no work period and Jesus said he was working.    You can bend and twist and do whatever you wish but you can't change flat strait spoken scripture.   They stoned people for picking up sticks.

Also one can't make a fire.    Do you start your car on the sabbath...    not just fire, but explosions.

But like I've been saying here since 2003, it's fine to follow the sabbath command if you do it properly, but it is not still mandatory.

[HAZARD]

Jesus abolished the Sabbath and we are no longer under the law. The new testament does not command men to keep any particular Sabbath. The New testament teaches that men can choose which day if any that they want to keep unto the Lord (Romans 14:5-6; Galatians 4:9-10; Colossians 2:14-17).

 

Coll. 2:16, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

This refers to all the Sabbaths of the law of Moses, including the regular weekly Sabbath. All of them are now abolished with the law thus fulfilling prophecy (Isa. 1:13-15; Hos. 2:11).

Christians are now free to keep any day they want to as a Sabbath (v 14:17; Romans 14:5-6; Gal. 3:9-10)

All Sabbaths were a shadow of the rest we now have in Jesus Christ (v 17; Matthew 11:28-30; Heb. 4:3, 10-11; 10:1).

 

The Old Covenant Sabbath has been done away with by Jesus Himself. We now live under the New Covenant.

 

Rom. 14:5-6. Rom. 14:5, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind

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V. 6, He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Gal. 4:9-10.

Gal. 4:9, But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

V. 10, Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Coll. 2:14-17;

Coll. 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

V. 15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

V. 16, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

V. 17, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Christ.

 
Paul wrote, But why dost thou judge they brother? or why dost thou set at nought they brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ . . . . So the every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more."

If the law of Moses, including the fourth commandment, was in force in the new covenant the above statement would never have been written by Paul. Each Christian can do as he pleases concerning the Sabbath and is not to be judged by his brother "Any More."

Christian experiences do not come by the law. "Receive ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?. . . .the law is not of faith: but. the man who doeth them [things of the law] shall live in them. . . . how turn ye AGAIN to the weak beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage?" (Gal. 1:6-9; 2:15-21; 3:1-12, 19-25; 4:1-3, 19-31; 5:1-9, 11-21).

"Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years [that the law required]. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed labour upon you in vain" (Gal. 3:1-12; 4:9-11). Going back to observe Sabbaths according to the law is spoken of here as going back into the bondage of the law. If one does this he is a debtor to do the whole law (Gal. 5:3).

The law was added because of transgressions, TILL THE SEED [Christ] SHOULD COME to whom the promise was made . . . But before faith came [that Christ brought in the gospel and the new covenant, Heb. 12:1, 2],we were kept under the law, shut up unto that faith WHICH SHOULD AFTERWARDS BE REVEALED. . . .Wherefor the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, THAT we might be justified by faith. BUT AFTER that faith is come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER" (Gal 3:19-25). Not being under the law here is explained as being out from under its authority like one who is no longer under a schoolmaster when we graduate from school. The law is not in force and it has no claim or authority over the person under the new covenant. He is under the obligation to keep the new covenant laws and commandments, which include new laws that were never part of the old covenant, as well as those that God saw fit to make a part of the new covenant.

The law, including the ten commandments, has been "CAST OUT"; "Tell me YE DESIRE TO BE UNDER THE LAW, do ye not hear the law. For it is written that Abraham had TWO SONS. . . . he who was of the BONDWOMAN was born after the flesh; but he of the FREEWOMAN was by promise. WHICH THINGS ARE AN ALLEGORY: for THESE ARE THE TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM MOUNT SINAI, which GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, is [Hagar]. . . .and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and IS IN BONDAGE with her children. But Jerusalem which is above IS FREE, which in the mother of us all. . . .Now we, brethren, as Isaac, are the children of promise. BUT AS EVEN SO IT IS NOW. Nevertheless what sayeth the Scripture? CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN [the first or old covenant FROM MOUNT SINAI]  AND HER SON [those under the law]; for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then brethren, WE ARE NOT CHILDREN OF THE BONDWOMAN [the old ten commandment covenant and its many laws], BUT OF THE FREE [the new covenant]. Stand fast therefor IN THE LIBERTY wherein Christ hath made us FREE, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN, WHITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE [the old covenant]. . . .  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised [no man had any part in the old covenant unless he was circumcised], that he is a debtor TO DO THE WHOLE LAW" (Gal. 4:21-31; 5:1-5, 18).

Edited December 31, 2021 by HAZARD
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[Ancient]

On 12/30/2021 at 5:49 AM, Bawb said:

Too many people view the Bible wrongly...

The Bible is a River of Living Water. The Old testament flows smoothly into the New Testament and we are then refreshed from our thirst by that water.

Too many people put a dam between the "Old Testament" and the "New Testament". Then they put a spigot on the dam. And then they proclaim, this is where all living water starts. They act as if the water comes out of the spigot from nowhere while not even realizing it came from the water behind that blank sheet of paper they've made into a dam!

Yes SHALOM!

 Yep you may as well rip the blank page that separates the two. What people do not get is that the New Testament was not compiled for 3 - 4 hundred years after the death and resurrection of Messiah and the death of the apostles. Also in Acts the Bereans who Paul preached searched the scriptures to test Paul teachings. Friends the scriptures they searched was not Matt, Mark, Luke or John, they were the only scriptures they had THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES!!!! The Torah, The Tanack, The Old Testament. 

The Old is revealed in the New, if you do away with the teachings of the Old as obsolete well then by default you need to do away with the New as most of what Yeshua said was quoting the Torah the Old Testament and also Paul.

Doctrines of men and demons say otherwise. If you believe the old is done away with well you follow a god that has contradictions everywhere, the god you follow is a liar and cannot be trusted and his word is not true.

Shalom

[Justin Adams]

The LXX was largely their scriptures as most understood Greek. Later the moderns stripped most of the scriptures of their inherent supernatural components.

[Not me]

Greetings and may God’s blessing be upon all…
 

When Jesus was explaining the 10 commandments He put forth a deeper meaning of them… I have pondered that if Jesus had continued to explain the rest of them, when He got to the Sabbath, He would have explained that the Sabbath being made for man is man entering into the rest of God…

Meaning that when someone by faith enters into God’s rest they have entered into the Sabbath and are keeping the Sabbath by their entering into that rest where they cease from their own works and enter into God’s rest by faith, that rest of faith that is for all that believe… 

Pondering before God, that we might know Him the more…

 

A fellow believer, Not me 

[Heleadethme]

On 12/29/2021 at 7:07 PM, Bawb said:

Please read Paul said not to judge people who do not follow Sabbath ? Why do you judge ? 

Please read and UNDERSTAND Colossians 2:16 - Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.     Now, think real hard. Was Paul speaking to Believing Jews and Gentiles or was he speaking to a group of heathens and pagans?

And you try to teach gentile that Sabbath law who authorize you ?

Matthew 5:17 through 19 - 17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. I'd say I'm on the right side of this fence. And supported by Scripture to do so.

Thats why Peter rebuked them. So Peter being a Jewish keeper of the TORAH and the Sabbath rebuked Paul for keeping the Sabbath? SHOW ME THAT SCRIPTURE!

Sabbath is one of the 613 mitzvot of Torah, you take all or leave all, don't you understand ? Including sacrificing animals for sin atonement like those Jews in modern Israel do in passover, that deny Jesus as the Lamb of God. The Sabbath is one of the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Do YOU understand this?

The Ten Commandments

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall make no idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10.You shall not covet.

John 14:15 through 17 - 15If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.

And the Biblical definition of the Love of God is found in:

1 John 5:3 - "This is the love of God, that we keep His Commandments, and His Commandments are not burdensome."

People wrongly assume that keeping God's Law applied only to the Old Testament believers and today, in the New Testament and under the Covenant of mercy and grace, we are not required to obey the Commandments of God.

So by your logic, we can murder and steal since we don't keep the Sabbath (which is the 4th Commandment by the way).

Better Follow the early disciples rather than becoming Acute theologians. Okay... I hope you'll do the same!

An example is found in Acts 13…

    Acts 13:13 – Now when Paul and his party set sail from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia; and John, departing from them, returned to Jerusalem. 14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Men [and] brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.”

So here is another example where Paul and the other disciples came to the Synagogue in Perga to attend the Sabbath Service.

A little later in the chapter, after Paul shares Yeshua with them we see that the Gentiles were quite interested.

    Acts 13:42 – So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

    Acts 13:43 – Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of YeHoVah 44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of YeHoVah.

So here is the fifth time that the disciples attended a Sabbath service on the day that YeHoVahh sanctified at creation. Again, the seventh day is called “the Sabbath” in this passage.

Here is another example in Acts 16…

    Acts 16:11 – Therefore, sailing from Troas, we ran a straight course to Samothrace, and the next [day] came to Neapolis, 12 and from there to Philippi, which is the foremost city of that part of Macedonia, a colony. And we were staying in that city for some days. 13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met [there].

It was the custom of the Jews of that day for the rabbi to shut down the synagogue if there were not at least 10 men that would show up for the Sabbath meeting. This could very well be why there were women meeting by the riverside for prayer. Nevertheless, we see that the disciples sought a place to meet for the Sabbath and they did. Again, the seventh day is called “the Sabbath Day” in this passage.

    Acts 18:1 – After these things Paul departed from Athens and went to Corinth. 2 And he found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla (because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to depart from Rome); and he came to them. 3 So, because he was of the same trade, he stayed with them and worked; for by occupation they were tentmakers. 4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

So we see that he worked on the other days as a tentmaker, but on the Sabbath He was not. Does this not demonstrate that He was keeping the Sabbath, as he had done his entire life?

Here again we see that both Jews and Greeks are in the synagogue and on the Sabbath. Paul among them, attending the Sabbath services. The interesting thing about this verse is that instead of the scripture saying that they attended only one or three sabbath services, it says that he was there every Sabbath persuading both Jews and Greeks.

Again, the seventh day is called “the Sabbath” in this passage so we know that we can at least count one. Let’s do that..

Now if Paul was in Corinth and was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath, all we have to do is find out how long he stayed in Corinth to discover how many Sabbaths he actually attended.

Let’s look further..

    Acts 18:5 – When Silas and Timothy had come from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit, and testified to the Jews [that] Yeshua [is] the Messiah. 6 But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook [his] garments and said to them, “Your blood [be] upon your [own] heads; I [am] clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” 7 And he departed from there and entered the house of a certain [man] named Justus, [one] who worshiped God, whose house was next door to the synagogue. 8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Master with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized. 9 Now the Master spoke to Paul in the night by a vision, “Do not be afraid, but speak, and do not keep silent; 10 “for I am with you, and no one will attack you to hurt you; for I have many people in this city.” 11 And he continued [there] a year and six months, teaching the word of Elohim among them.

A year and six months!

Finally the ruler of the synagogue was converted to believe in Yeshua and Paul was there a year and six months! So the scripture says that Paul was there every Sabbath and that he was there for a year and six months. If we counted this by the Gregorian calendar that would give us 52 Sabbaths in a year plus 26 Sabbaths in the following six months, giving us a a total of 78 Sabbaths! Now lets add this to our present total:

So we can see that the disciples attended a Sabbath service 85 times in the book of Acts alone. Again, the seventh day is called “the Sabbath” in this passage.

 

 

It was expedient for Paul and other Jewish believers to "be as a Jew to convert the Jew", and not to give offence unnecessarily.  Remember that Peter was a Jew who lived as a Gentile.  Being all things to all people in order to convert some.

 Jesus said " until everything was accomplished"....so when was everything accomplished....on the cross when He said, "It is finished".  Hebrews says since there has been a change of the priesthood (our High Priest is not of Levi, but Judah) there has also been a change of the Law.

N.B.  I wouldn't teach anyone not to "keep" the Sabbath anyhow.   I might share the deeper meaning of what the Sabbath was a shadow of, but also say do according to your own conscience.

[Heleadethme]

Mat 12:1-7

At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Heleadethme

[Walter and Deborah]

3-26-23

Hello you all, And thank you.

Love, Walter and Debbie