Revelation Chapter 13 -

[OneLight]

Thanks OneLight . . . was just trying to keep up . . .

You're welcome. Hope you can do a better job then me on keeping up!

[Massorite]

Ive heard 2 ideas on this. One will be that he will be the leader of the EU. The other I have heard is that the beast will come back disguised as Pope John Paul 2.

Then counting this one . . . if you read it, make's 3

Exactly! Ideas alone, and speculation. Is that a good thing? I would venture to say no?

Speculation is not a problem. Believing such speculation is a problem.

[Massorite]

Ive heard 2 ideas on this. One will be that he will be the leader of the EU. The other I have heard is that the beast will come back disguised as Pope John Paul 2.

Then counting this one . . . if you read it, make's 3

Exactly! Ideas alone, and speculation. Is that a good thing? I would venture to say no?

That's the problem. Speculation based on the incorrect assumption that the book is primarily about future events. It isn't. It's primarily about PAST events, specifically the punishment of Jerusalem double for her sins and the destruction of the Temple and the ushering in of the Meesianic Age.

Revelation 4:1

After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying,

[Stephen1]

Agreed,

Preterism is a bankrupt theology with no answers for future exegesis of the prophetic scriptures .... in fact those who hold this position are in the classification of the scoffers of the last days [2Peter 3:3-4]

Here is the first beast of Revelation [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1; 17:8] .... he is a fallen angelic who will do satan's bidding on the earth during the coming tribulation period

[BlindSeeker]

Ive heard 2 ideas on this. One will be that he will be the leader of the EU. The other I have heard is that the beast will come back disguised as Pope John Paul 2.

Then counting this one . . . if you read it, make's 3

Exactly! Ideas alone, and speculation. Is that a good thing? I would venture to say no?

That's the problem. Speculation based on the incorrect assumption that the book is primarily about future events. It isn't. It's primarily about PAST events, specifically the punishment of Jerusalem double for her sins and the destruction of the Temple and the ushering in of the Meesianic Age.

Revelation 4:1

After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying,

[Stephen1]

AC was either confused, or attempting to deceive

The temple in Revelation 11:1 is the Lord's temple in heaven just as all of Revelation's references to the temple

The court on the earth is the top of the temple mount ..... the court "without" the Lord's temple which was destroyed long ago

It is the temple mount on the earth that will be controlled [overrun and occupied] by the beast and his followers for 42 months during the last 1260 days of the 70th week decreed for Israel

[BlindSeeker]

AC was either confused, or attempting to deceive

The temple in Revelation 11:1 is the Lord's temple in heaven just as all of Revelation's references to the temple

The court on the earth is the top of the temple mount ..... the court "without" the Lord's temple which was destroyed long ago

It is the temple mount on the earth that will be controlled [overrun and occupied] by the beast and his followers for 42 months during the last 1260 days of the 70th week decreed for Israel

Now we have your opinion as well as Adam Clarke's . . . and . . . maybe you are the one attempting to deceive

[Stephen1]

Maybe I am not

Seek the Lord and His Word with proper motive and He will lead you into all truth

[nebula]

In Daniel, the beasts are representative of nations-kingdoms.

Why should the rules change in Revelation?

[lekh l'kha]

In Daniel, the beasts are representative of nations-kingdoms.

Why should the rules change in Revelation?

Exactly

And in Daniel, a "mountain" also represents nations-kingdoms. "The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits."

Five had fallen by the time John received the Revelation, one existed at the time John received the Revelation, and the other had not yet come. Each "mountain" had its own king, and the beast that rises from the abyss is the 8th king, but is "of the seven".

Does this tell us that the beast that rises from the abyss is a king? Well, the Revelation says he is a king. Perhaps the fact that we are told that the 8th king is "of the seven" means that the 8th king will rule over the seventh kingdom, and that there is therefore no 8th kingdom (or at least, the 8th kingdom will be the Kingdom of Christ, whose resurrection from the dead on the 8th day is recorded in the 8th division of Matthew's gospel, and of whom the Greek gammatria of His name is 888)?

Perhaps the 8th king from the abyss is an antichrist, an impostor, but is "of the seven" kingdoms?

The 8th king ASCENDS from the lowest place - the abyss - and is destroyed by the true 8th King who DESCENDS from the highest place - the throne of God in the third heaven.

The coming of the one from the abyss is with miracles, power and lying wonders?

The coming of the One from heaven is with real miracles, signs and wonders.

Faith in and worship of the one from the abyss results in judgment for sins and eternal condemnation (Revelation 14).

Faith in and worship of the One from heaven results in forgiveness for sins and eternal life.

Etc, etc, etc.