Lord: Rise Now and Judge the World

[angels4u]

3 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false, he warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Quote

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false, he warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

If many people believe this ,please don't call it false,just tell people you diagree? It's not a false gospel..

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, angels4u said:

If many people believe this ,please don't call it false,just tell people you diagree? It's not a false gospel..

It's my "opinion" the teaching is false or wrong, it could be my "opinion" its true or correct

Words used in every day english communication expressing "opinions"

At no time have I claimed the teaching of a Millennial Kingdom, is part of or related to the gospel as you suggest

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Edited February 6, 2022 by truth7t7

[transmogrified]

5 hours ago, Keras said:

22 hours ago, transmogrified said:

When do you think the 7th Trumpet will sound...at the end of this age, or at the end of the millennium? 

During the final 3 1/2 years of this age; before Jesus Returns.  The Seven Trumpets are the first part of the Great Tribulation, culminating in the Seventh Bowl - when Jesus destroys Satan's armies at Armageddon.  Revelation 16:16-18

Hello again-

Good to talk with you....

Yes, the 7th trumpet sounds during the final 3.5 years of this age. The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord at the 7th Trumpet as it states:

"And the 7th angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of  this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.."

It then goes to describe some other things that happen at the sounding of the 7th Trumpet at the end of the 3.5 year tribulation:

1) The nations were angry and thy wrath is come

2) And the time of the dead that they should be judged

3) And that thou shouldest give reward to thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, both small and great...

One of the events is 'the time of the dead that they should be judged...' Of course before God will judge 'the dead' they have to FIRST be resurrected...as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment..."

It is at the sounding of the 7th trumpet that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ...the saints have to be resurrected and judged and rewarded to then rule and reign with Christ for the 1000 years...they can not be resurrected and judged and rewarded at the end of the 1000 years and also reign with Christ for 1000 years for they would have been still dead the entire time.

So at the 7th trumpet the saints are specifically  judged and rewarded...but this is not just for those killed during the tribulation as it states:

"...and that thou shouldest give reward to thy servants the prophets....(Abraham, Isaiah, Jeremiah, John, ect...) and to the saints, ('the saints' meaning all the saints) and to them that fear thy name both small and great..." So no one is excluded...the those who were killed by the beast, Abel, Moses, Peter James, John, to the widow who gave her mite....

So at the last trumpet is when we are all changed, or in other words, when this corruptible shall put on incorruption, and this mortality puts on immortality as it says in 1 Cor. 15: 54-55

"So WHEN (at the last trumpet) this mortal shall put on immortality....THEN shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, 'death is swallowed up in victory...'

The saying that 'Death is swallowed up in victory' is taken from Is. 25:8 where the time context is the 2nd Coming, and the great feast he makes for all nations at that time:

"And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined...And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God shall wipe away all tears from off all faces...and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth.."

The context at the end of the 1000 years is a completely different scenario as what is described in the above scripture...there is no feast unto all nations...rather the nations are deceived by the devil and are gathered around the camp of the saints where they are all destroyed, in contrast to the second coming when the vail would be removed from all nations...the rebuke of his people is not removed at the end of the 1000 years but rather at the 2nd Coming. 

But it is at this time that Paul is saying the scripture will be fulfilled that death will be swallowed up in victory, but the fulfillment of this verse only pertains to the believers who will be changed at the last trumpet...the nations that are converted after Christ returns with the saints will not be in that number...The saints come with Jesus to the earth from heaven in glorified bodies, those on the earth at that time are still in natural bodies.

Remember, Jesus does not destroy everybody on the earth at his coming...the (existing) kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord...he comes and rebukes the nations and then it says they beat their swords in to plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks...they repent and continue to live on the earth under the dominion of Christ and the saints.

This group repents at the second coming, but they are not given glorified bodies...it says those that are left will go up from year to year to worship the Lord in Jerusalem, but they are still mortals who are subject to death...

Some of the people who live during the 1000 years will die in their sins and some will die in righteousness, and this is who the GWT judgment is for...those who live and die during that 1000 year period...

John 5:28 states both the wicked and the righteous are resurrected at the same time and so the time frame must be understood.

The wheat and the tares are both judged and rewarded at the same time, called the harvest in Matthew 13. But this event must not be confused to mean something that happens at the end of the 1000 years, for it specifically states 'So shall it be at the end THIS age...he did not say the harvest would be at the end of the NEXT age, but at the end of this age, which is of course the 2nd Coming.

It is also clarified in the good and bad fish analogy...the net is lowered one time when it is full of BOTH good and bad fish...when it is full it is drawn ONE TIME to the shore and then the good are separated from the bad...

So what I am getting at is there is a resurrection for BOTH the good and bad fish at the end of this age, which is at the second coming...but it must be realized that the good fish, or the wheat, are not just those killed during the tribulation, but rather the wheat are described as 'the children of the kingdom..' not PART of the children of the kingdom and another part will be later harvested...and it is also important to realize the tares, who are also harvested and judged AT THE SAME TIME, are called the children of the devil. 

So realize the tares are not harvested at the end of the 1000 years, neither are the righteous harvested at the end of the 1000 years, but both groups are resurrected and rewarded at the Second coming...This pertains to all people from Adam to the Second Coming, both good and bad.

Of course the scripture is true that you quoted, that 'the rest of the dead lived not until the 1000 years was finished.' But it does not trump the other scriptures such as the judgment and rewarding of all the saints that happens at the 7th trumpet, nor other scriptures such as the wheat and tares, good and bad fish, sheep and goats...ect.

So the question must be addressed...who are the rest of the dead? 

So zoom in on what Jesus told Caiphas in Matthew 26:64 He said 'Hereafter shall ye see the son of man sitting on the right hand of power and coming in the clouds of heaven..."

How will Caiphas, a wicked man, see Christ coming in the clouds of heaven if he is not first resurrected? He wouldn't. But we are not just talking about Caiphas, for it says he comes with clouds and 'every eye shall see him, even those that pierced him..' How would every eye see him when he comes in the clouds unless they are all resurrected? They wouldn't. But because John 5:28 states 'all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth,' then everyone will be resurrected, including the wicked and would see him.

But look closer at what Jesus told Caiphas...he said that he would see him when he comes in the clouds of heaven... So note that he is not with them that are coming with Jesus to the earth, but rather he sees Jesus coming in the clouds...meaning he is on the earth and sees him coming down to the earth with his saints.

So lets zoom in a little closer and think of the time frame in which this is happening...the saints are all resurrected for they are all coming down with  Jesus from heaven to the earth...the wicked dead are also resurrected for Caiphas is seeing this take place...but where is Jesus and the saints going? They are going to Armageddon where the slaughter of the kings and mighty men will take place...

So in summary Jesus is returning with the saints who have been resurrected, and the wicked dead have also been resurrected, as it states, he cometh with clouds and every eye shall see him, even those who pierced him. So both groups have been resurrected, but now on this very day, Jesus and the saints are descending to Armageddon where many wicked people will be slain...so in context, on this very day, all have been already resurrected, but now there is a massive slaughter of wicked people who are killed.

The thing to note here is that those at Armageddon were killed AFTER the resurrection of the wicked had already taken place..so these are those who will not live again until the 1000 years are finished, when the next resurrection at the end of that time period will take place.

This is stated also in Isaiah 24:21 concerning Armageddon and those slain there:

"And it shall come to pass in that day (Armageddon) that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth...(the great feast that he calls the birds of the air to eat the flesh of mighty men...) And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit (bottomless pit) and after many days (1000 years) shall they be visited.."

It is at the GWT that death and hell will give up the dead that are in them...this is when all these slain at Armageddon will be resurrected and judged and also all the others who lived and died during the 1000 years.

So to easily understand the resurrection of the righteous is where it says 'We shall not all sleep, but we shall ALL be changed, in a moment, in a twinkle of an eye...at the last trump."

It is crucial to see that Paul is stating that ALL will be changed at the Last Trump...

This means there will not be just those killed during the tribulation changed at one time and then the rest of the saints changed at another time...No. ALL the saints are changed at ONE TIME, and this one point in time is not at the end of the 1000 years but AT the last trump, in other words, at the second coming.

 

Blessings to you- Gary

 

 

 

[Keras]

16 hours ago, transmogrified said:

It is crucial to see that Paul is stating that ALL will be changed at the Last Trump...

The Last Trump, has to be after the Millennium, unless trumpets are banned during that time?  Only then will everyone who has ever lived, be brought together to stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

Your contention that Revelation 11:13-19 happens on earth is wrong: those prophesies are made in heaven and will be fulfilled on earth in the sequence as given in the rest of Revelation.    Thinking they all happen at that time, creates a Biblical anomaly and is a contradiction of many other prophesies. 

[truth7t7]

3 hours ago, Keras said:

The Last Trump, has to be after the Millennium, unless trumpets are banned during that time?  Only then will everyone who has ever lived, be brought together to stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

Your contention that Revelation 11:13-19 happens on earth is wrong: those prophesies are made in heaven and will be fulfilled on earth in the sequence as given in the rest of Revelation.    Thinking they all happen at that time, creates a Biblical anomaly and is a contradiction of many other prophesies. 

Gods words clearly teach in Revelation chapter 11, that shortly after the two witnesses are raised the 7th Trump takes place, yes this is the time of Final judgement (The End) as seen in verse 18 below 

Revelation 11:15-18KJV

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Edited February 7, 2022 by truth7t7

[transmogrified]

On 2/6/2022 at 1:00 PM, Keras said:

On 2/5/2022 at 7:51 PM, transmogrified said:

When do you think the 7th Trumpet will sound...at the end of this age, or at the end of the millennium? 

During the final 3 1/2 years of this age; before Jesus Returns.  The Seven Trumpets are the first part of the Great Tribulation, culminating in the Seventh Bowl - when Jesus destroys Satan's armies at Armageddon.  Revelation 16:16-18

The above quote states the 7th Trumpet sounds at the end of this age...at this 7th Trumpet sounding it says it is the time of the dead that they should be judged and that God would reward all his saints, the prophets, and them that fear him small and great...

At the sounding of the 7th trumpet the saints will be judged and rewarded at the end of this age...seeing they must be resurrected before they are judged then the dead in Christ must be resurrected at the end of this age.

This is the last day spoken of by Jesus at which time he said he would raise up all those that believe on him in John 6. 

Who does the scripture say is included in this resurrection at the 7th Trumpet?

Blessings to you- Gary

[Keras]

3 hours ago, transmogrified said:

The above quote states the 7th Trumpet sounds at the end of this age...at this 7th Trumpet sounding it says it is the time of the dead that they should be judged and that God would reward all his saints, the prophets, and them that fear him small and great...

But for those things to happen at that point, directly contradicts the rest of Revelation. The prophesies given at the Seventh Trumpet have to refer to the GWT Judgment; at the end of Gods 7000 year Plan for mankind. 

Revelation 11:15 shows how Jesus was given the Sovereignty of the world, when He Ascended. As per Revelation 5:12. 

Then; Revelation 11:16-18 is parenthetical, praising Him for His Day of wrath has come and He will bring rewards to His faithful people; at His Return. Matthew 16:27.   He does Judge the dead, too; by keeping the Book of Life up to date. 

[transmogrified]

7 hours ago, Keras said:

But for those things to happen at that point, directly contradicts the rest of Revelation.

All the saints rule with Christ during the 1000 years...in order for them to rule and reign, they have to be first resurrected...the part about those killed ruling and reigning for a 1000 years is true, of course, but those killed during the tribulation are in the group called the 'dead in Christ...' And 1 Thes. 4 states 'the dead in Christ shall rise first...' 

The problem lies in the misunderstanding that only those killed will rule and reign during the 1000 years...It would be like quoting Rev. 11 and saying, yes, it states that he will give reward to his saints, and them that fear him, small and great...but it didn't say those that were killed by the beast were rewarded so they aren't included...That would be foolish, for it is acknowledged when he says, the saints, and them that fear his name, small and great, that those that were killed by the beast would be included even though it didn't specifically say 'those that were killed by the beast.'

Likewise when it says 'the dead in Christ' it is acknowledged that those killed by the beast would be in the same group as those that died in Christ before the tribulation...they are all 'the dead in Christ.'

Look at the wheat and tares and ask if the harvest is at the end of the millennium or at the Second Coming...

Here is the wording:
 

The harvest is the end of the world...or age

Let both grow together UNTIL the harvest...or until the end of the age

As therefore the tares re gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of THIS age..   It is specifically spelled out here that BOTH wheat and tares are judged and rewarded at the end of this age...not the next age.

He shall cast them into a furnace of fire...

AND THEN, (not 1000 years later) shall the righteous (not just those killed by the beast) shine forth in the kingdom of their father.

So the time frame is explicitly spelled out that the good seed, i.e. the children of the kingdom, which includes more that just those slain by the beast), are rewarded at the end of THIS age...

So who are the wheat that are resurrected and judged at the end of this age?

Blessings to you- Gary

[Keras]

2 hours ago, transmogrified said:

The harvest is the end of the world...or age

Let both grow together UNTIL the harvest...or until the end of the age

As therefore the tares re gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of THIS age..   It is specifically spelled out here that BOTH wheat and tares are judged and rewarded at the end of this age...not the next age.

He shall cast them into a furnace of fire...

AND THEN, (not 1000 years later) shall the righteous (not just those killed by the beast) shine forth in the kingdom of their father.

So the time frame is explicitly spelled out that the good seed, i.e. the children of the kingdom, which includes more that just those slain by the beast), are rewarded at the end of THIS age...

So who are the wheat that are resurrected and judged at the end of this age?

The end of the world and of the age of mankind, is after the Millennium. As described in Revelation 20:11-15 and 21:1-7   THAT is when the fiery furnace for the wicked happens. 

I reiterate: Revelation 20:4 says that ONLY the GT martyrs will ne resurrected when Jesus Returns. 

[transmogrified]

7 hours ago, Keras said:

I reiterate: Revelation 20:4 says that ONLY the GT martyrs will ne resurrected when Jesus Returns. 

Will Caiphas see Jesus when he comes in the clouds?