The flood when?

[other one]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

Keep in mind, that prior to written language, the stories were passed down through the generations, until they were finally written down. So while you are correct that God did promise to never destroy the earth again by flood; I have to wonder if it is the world of Noah that is completely destroyed by flood, or if it is the world of the generation at the end times described in the book of Enoch that is destroyed by flood.

I do not question the Bible over Enoch.    

[luigi]

24 minutes ago, other one said:

I do not question the Bible over Enoch.    

Data from the book of Enoch appears in the New Testament, and so the book of Enoch is Bible.

[other one]

40 minutes ago, luigi said:

Data from the book of Enoch appears in the New Testament, and so the book of Enoch is Bible.

So does data from a lot of other places, but that doesn't make them cannon.  But I do think everyone should read Enoch and learn the overall story there.  It adds a lot of context to the Bible, but it's not all accurate.

 

[luigi]

Since the data in the book of Enoch appears in Jude and Revelation, I believe the Lord in part used the books of Jude and Revelation to show us the validity of the book of Enoch. 

[The_Patriot21]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

Keep in mind, that prior to written language, the stories were passed down through the generations, until they were finally written down. So while you are correct that God did promise to never destroy the earth again by flood; I have to wonder if it is the world of Noah that is completely destroyed by flood, or if it is the world of the generation at the end times described in the book of Enoch that is destroyed by flood.

There is zero room for wonder in the Bible as to what that promise refers to-God promised never to flood the earth again. Period. The earth of noah is the earth we live in. 

And your argument about the surreality of the book of enoch is the reason it wasnt accepted as cannon is patently false, and this conversation shows exactly why.

See, while the book of revelation contains a lot of similar language, none of it contradicts scripture anywhere else. In fact a lot of it can be found elsewhere in scripture. Add into that theres a lot of solid evidence of who actually authored it.

Now there are books in the Bible where the author is unknown or unverified...but again, none of them contradict scripture.

The book of enoch contains not just one or two...but many contradictions. The flood example is one of many. It is a direct contradiction, they both cannot be true. If the Bibles version is true then the book of enoch is heresy. If the book of enochs version is true, then the Bibe is heresy, because if you discredit one part, you discredit the entire book. (A book cannot be divinely inspired if it contains even one error)

So if you believe enochs version over the Bibles, then what God do you serve, the God of the Bible, or Enoch? I daresay you dont respect the authority of scripture as you are trying to make the Bible say something it does not, just to defend your favorite extra-biblical "book"

[luigi]

21 minutes ago, The_Patriot21 said:

There is zero room for wonder in the Bible as to what that promise refers to-God promised never to flood the earth again. Period. The earth of noah is the earth we live in. 

And your argument about the surreality of the book of enoch is the reason it wasnt accepted as cannon is patently false, and this conversation shows exactly why.

See, while the book of revelation contains a lot of similar language, none of it contradicts scripture anywhere else. In fact a lot of it can be found elsewhere in scripture. Add into that theres a lot of solid evidence of who actually authored it.

Now there are books in the Bible where the author is unknown or unverified...but again, none of them contradict scripture.

The book of enoch contains not just one or two...but many contradictions. The flood example is one of many. It is a direct contradiction, they both cannot be true. If the Bibles version is true then the book of enoch is heresy. If the book of enochs version is true, then the Bibe is heresy, because if you discredit one part, you discredit the entire book. (A book cannot be divinely inspired if it contains even one error)

So if you believe enochs version over the Bibles, then what God do you serve, the God of the Bible, or Enoch? I daresay you dont respect the authority of scripture as you are trying to make the Bible say something it does not, just to defend your favorite extra-biblical "book"

The book of Enoch precedes New Testament literature. As such, if the book of Jude quotes the book of Enoch, then the book of Enoch is valid. Likewise, if the book of Revelation paraphrases the book of Enoch, then the book of Enoch is valid.

The alternative is to also discount the books of Jude and Revelation, which corroborate the book of Enoch.

[The_Patriot21]

12 minutes ago, luigi said:

The book of Enoch precedes New Testament literature. As such, if the book of Jude quotes the book of Enoch, then the book of Enoch is valid. Likewise, if the book of Revelation paraphrases the book of Enoch, then the book of Enoch is valid.

The alternative is to also discount the books of Jude and Revelation, which corroborate the book of Enoch.

Actually no its not. Thats putting the book of enoch over scripture...based upon some pretty big assumptions...number one, that jude quotes the book of enoch we have today-and revelations paraphrases the book of enoch. 

Fact is we dont know the book of enoch jude quotes is the same one we have today, and even if it is, it doesnt make it scriptural. 

And ive read revelations and the book of enoch neither are paraphrases of the other. Revelations correlates to several old testament books, especially daniel. There are some similarities in the book...but all that shows is the authors of both books had access to OT scriptures-which we know that John did, and most likely the author of the book of enoch did.

Your assumptions dont overrule the dozens of blatant contradictions found between the two books. Revelations has zero contradictions with any other book in the Bible. The book of enoch contradicts many books in the Bible...including revelations.

Theres some good, accurate information in the book of enoch. But theirs a lot of flat out lies, as well. Its not canonical because its obviously not divinely inspired. 

I dont know the intentions of the author. He may have been a false teacher, or he may have had the best of intentions, i dont know, but i do know he wasnt divinely inspired and that he certainly wasnt enoch...which means that the former theory is far more likely. Lying about who you are is a strong indicator your priorities arent pure. 

Keepnin mind satan loves to mix his lies in with the truth. Makes it easier to deceive people. Its literally the oldest trick in the book as it is what he used to trick eve in the garden.

[teddyv]

27 minutes ago, luigi said:

The alternative is to also discount the books of Jude and Revelation, which corroborate the book of Enoch.

Both of those were nearly cut from canon.

[kwikphilly]

24 minutes ago, luigi said:

The book of Enoch precedes New Testament literature. As such, if the book of Jude quotes the book of Enoch, then the book of Enoch is valid. Likewise, if the book of Revelation paraphrases the book of Enoch, then the book of Enoch is valid.

The alternative is to also discount the books of Jude and Revelation, which corroborate the book of Enoch.

Again, as Patriot just finished saying.... The book of Enoch has some truths & many Contradictions with the Word of God..... Theres not much else to say regarding anything that mixes in anything that opposes Scrioture, doesnt matter when it was written or by whom it was written

 Typical of the enemy to mix in lies with some truth, hes done it since the beginning( before the Torah was Written and we are told he is the father of lies...... The book of Enoch is NOT Scriptural- readers be wise!

[luigi]

50 minutes ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Actually no its not. Thats putting the book of enoch over scripture...based upon some pretty big assumptions...number one, that jude quotes the book of enoch we have today-and revelations paraphrases the book of enoch. 

Fact is we dont know the book of enoch jude quotes is the same one we have today, and even if it is, it doesnt make it scriptural. 

And ive read revelations and the book of enoch neither are paraphrases of the other. Revelations correlates to several old testament books, especially daniel. There are some similarities in the book...but all that shows is the authors of both books had access to OT scriptures-which we know that John did, and most likely the author of the book of enoch did.

Your assumptions dont overrule the dozens of blatant contradictions found between the two books. Revelations has zero contradictions with any other book in the Bible. The book of enoch contradicts many books in the Bible...including revelations.

Theres some good, accurate information in the book of enoch. But theirs a lot of flat out lies, as well. Its not canonical because its obviously not divinely inspired. 

I dont know the intentions of the author. He may have been a false teacher, or he may have had the best of intentions, i dont know, but i do know he wasnt divinely inspired and that he certainly wasnt enoch...which means that the former theory is far more likely. Lying about who you are is a strong indicator your priorities arent pure. 

Keepnin mind satan loves to mix his lies in with the truth. Makes it easier to deceive people. Its literally the oldest trick in the book as it is what he used to trick eve in the garden.

Enoch I:9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgment upon all, And to destroy the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

If you cannot see that Jude 1:14-15 derives from Enoch I:9, then there is really nothing more for me to say.

Edited February 22, 2022 by luigi