Angels

[Starise]

The word comes from  Greek translations of the Bible . The meaning for the word is messenger, however that word has a stronger meaning in other languages. A highly regarded or high ranking messenger. Since we know one of their primary functions are as helpers in various capacities, I believe we need to dig into more 

Angels are a whole class of beings that has sub classes with different appearances, different functions and different operations within God's kingdom.

Some descriptions of angels in the bible affirm they can look just like human beings when they come into our realm from the spiritual realm. There are sometimes debates on whether or not the Bible is describing God, angels or men at different times when a man or men are mentioned.Examples include Jacob wrestling with the angel in Genesis 32: 22-32 and the three 'men' who visited Moses in Genesis 18.

We know the angels who visited Sodom were mistaken for men by the residents. I think we can say with certainty that God also extends Himself into seeming human form at times or maybe even extends Himself through  His other creations. I see it similar to the way a Christian can be "filled" with the Holy Spirit for His work. God can dedicate other purposes for His work by literally extending Himself through other beings like a hand in a glove. While we don't see this happening very often in the physical realm, we know it happens in the spiritual realm. It may be happening more in the physical realm than we realize because it is so well cloaked we don't notice it.

By far the angels  steadfast for the purposes of Yahweh are greater in number and force than the angels of the other side who fell away. If we think about the logistics of it we see the good angels are at  much great advantage for obvious reasons.

• Fallen angels left their main home, they left the place they once worked out of. They left their support structures so they had to re organize in a much less desirable location. Remember they were 'kicked' from their heavenly abode. They did not go willingly.
• Fallen angels had to attempt to thwart the plans of the Lord in a vain last ditch effort to save themselves from utter destruction.
• Fallen angels are in a battle that has already been decided and won. Whether they are all aware of it or not is debatable since they are still fighting maybe with a glimmer of false hope they will succeed.

This is where in the end of their reasoning, the end justifies the means, so fallen angels are now resorting to some of the most odd and unorthodox ways to wreak havoc on earth including misrepresenting themselves to blinded men in order to accomplish their goals, sharing knowledge that was probably not intended to be known by men until later. This has all amounted to a mountain of lies intended to use men as shills for their evil purposes which includes the destruction of men. Not to be confused with demons. These are often high order angels who fell and have dedicated themselves to the last war they will ever fight.

While it's these fallen ones that often get much of the attention, it is undeserved and I think we would do better to not be led into their evil world at all for any reason EVER. The good angels are the most effective for our well being and God's myriad of other purposes He uses them for. While  angels help men. It ain't all about us as they have other duties.

The idea that all men have at least one guardian angel isn't something you will find in the bible. This is not to say we as men are not protected many times by them. In fact, the bible seems to say we are all observed by a heavenly host. That one should really put us on our toes!

I have to ask a few questions when I see certain things that originate in the spiritual realm and end up as a physical manifestations. I tend to think that maybe the fallen angels are taking ideas and concepts that were heavenly and attempting to adapt them to their purposes. They have the tools they took from heaven but they are re purposing them. Let's take the Babylonian mystery religion significance of the pyramid. I'm not so sure the pyramid wasn't something that was originally a heaven concept. I think there may be some significance to the pyramid in heaven and in creation. The fallen ones want to say the all seeing eye is their God Lucifer, Satan or ha satan. They don't call him that. That concept could be an original heaven concept hey robbed from Yahweh. How about all of the New Age Gobbledy Gook  about 'vibrations' 'frequencies' and dimensions? Once again I think this is 'them' attempting to ape something superior that may have had concepts in God's circles. These things can only be effective in a limited way for them and for men because they are misusing it without God's blessing.

The side we are mainly concerned with, they follow the rules laid our for them. These are followers of Yahweh same as us.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Starise

[luigi]

Hi Starise, I agree with your concept that fallen angels are here to deceive us with their false messages. This is confirmed in 2  Corinthians 11:14 where the spirit of Satan masquerades himself as an angel of light, thereby deceiving the whole world according to Revelation 12:9. They are fallen in that they promote the carnal perspective rather than the spiritual perspective of God and His angels.

 

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[Starise]

45 minutes ago, luigi said:

Hi Starise, I agree with your concept that fallen angels are here to deceive us with their false messages. This is confirmed in 2  Corinthians 11:14 where the spirit of Satan masquerades himself as an angel of light, thereby deceiving the whole world according to Revelation 12:9. They are fallen in that they promote the carnal perspective rather than the spiritual perspective of God and His angels.

 

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Apparently, when the fallen angels were cast to the earth from  what most call heaven, their abilities remained intact. It does not appear they lost anything of their gifts and abilities which I think they plan to use to full effect and are using even now.

We could say the battle is both a deception in the mind and a physically manifested deception. You indicate the ways in which men are deceived by drawing them in their natural carnal direction which is preferable to most men over seeking a spiritual direction. The CARNAL person looks for signs and miracles and will confuse them as giving validity to those doing them.

The Spiritual believer will TEST the spirits. Since Jesus has been watered down by the world already as only a good man or a prophet, the door is wide open to pretty much anything else because anything goes when the ship has lost the rudder.

[Justin Adams]

Luke 10:18.

18 So He told them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you".

The cross nullified the previous powers of the holy ones (sons of God). Psalm 82: "...you will die like men and fall like any [human] prince".

The triumph of the cross equated to the death of the gods.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Justin Adams

[Dennis1209]

We could get into an extended discussion on this topic. Jacob wrestling an angel and winning is a long discussion in and of itself. I agree with most of your thoughts, so this is only an apples-to-apples analysis.

I would first like to lay the foundation of my beliefs before commenting on my thoughts about angels. The Lord is omnipresent, omnicompetent, omnipotent, and omniscient; He does not need anything but desires and wants.

Human government originated from the Lord, a pattern of Heaven like many other things on earth. Can it be argued the Lord is not legalistic?

With that said, the Lord has a human and spiritual agency carrying out His plan and will. At the conclusion of the millennium at the Throne judgment, multiple books are opened; present are those being judged and sentenced out of those legal books, according to their works. These books are written, recorded, official documents, and witnessed records of one’s entire life; the good, bad, and the ugly.

I suspect one of some messenger class angels' assignments is to observe, witness, and record one's actions their entire lives. I guess this legal doctrine is ageless:

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

Would it be fair and equitable for Hitler to receive the same punishment as a mother, Terresa, known for her good works?

As snowflakes, planets, the entire universe, and humans are created unique and one of a kind, I suspect angels are created unique also. As you mentioned, it appears there are different classes of spiritual beings with varying powers and abilities, additional responsibilities, job assignments, and tasks.

The power of one angel is unfathomable, killing 100,000+ in a single night, and the death angel in Exodus. The angel sent to Daniel was withstood 21 days and needed Michael’s help to get God’s message to Daniel.

There was war in Heaven: Angels are created eternal, meaning they cannot be killed, can they be wounded? We know angels can be delayed, stopped, confined, and imprisoned but not eradicated. That being said, I have wondered how heavenly war is waged? I am familiar with the only concept of war as human war and strategy.

If fallen angels or otherwise, do transform themselves in appearance exactly as flesh and blood humans, eat and breathe, and perform other biological functions. Why is it so challenging to take Genesis 6:1-4 as a literal rendering? The opposition always points to:

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

These are heavenly angels spoken of that did not rebel. It does not say they did not or cannot marry (sexual relations).

Yes, in several places in the Bible, men and angels are used synonymously and interchangeably. I, too, have wondered about this relationship and description.

Daniel 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

When this terminology is applied, I suspect it is the transformed spiritual being in 3D human form? Same way with the men outside of Jesus’s tomb. That I also suspect might be Moses & Elijah, the Two Witnesses. Hearsay is not allowed in witness testimony; somebody must witness events firsthand in real-time.

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Estate: ἀρχή (archē), ῆς (ēs), ἡ (hē): n.fem.; ≡ DBLHebr 8031, 8040; Str 746; TDNT 1.479—1. LN 68.1 beginning, initiate an action, process, or state of being (Mk 1:1); 2. LN 67.65 beginning, a point at the beginning of a duration (Jn 1:1; 2Th 2:13 v.r.; Rev 1:8 v.r.); 3. LN 89.16 first cause, the origin (Rev 3:14+).

I take estate to imply leaving their natural spiritual domain and taking on flesh to marry (procreation). To thwart and contaminate the genealogy and bloodline of the coming Messiah. A plan B if the genocide of the Jews was not successful. A precise rendering of this verse shows that Satan and his minions have seed and produce offspring.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I suspect the coming Antichrist is the physical seed of Satan. Interesting topic, thanks for starting it.

[Omegaman 3.0]

Well, redundant information no doubt, but it just so happens that a recently did a short (long by posting standards) blurm on Angels in the Bible 365 Club Glossary, from which I now quote:

Angel - The word actually means "messenger".  It is used several ways in the Bible, and it is generally the context that helps us to discern in which sense it is being used, sometimes we do not know for certain. 
Technically, an angel could be merely a human messenger. If a verse says: "When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem" you can be pretty certain it is not talking about a human messenger.
There is the term "the angel of the Lord". Theologians disagree whether this is a specify messenger send by God for a purpose, or a preincarnate manifestation of God's Son, or both.
There is a verse that seems to imply that children perhaps have their own angels, sometimes people refer to guardian angels, but these things do not really have much Biblical foundation.
Some angels (as in the spirit being type) are sent to do certain tasks such as deliver messages to people, destroy some form of evil, bring understanding to a prophet or person specially chose for some purpose, etc. The term is used in Revelation, as some sort of person (not necessarily human) who represents a specific church.
There are certain kinds of angels, for example seraphim or cherubim, these may be treated later in their own categories in this glossary.
The term archangel exist. It means chief angel, one is specifically mentioned by the name "Michael". Michael is a name that asks the question "Who is like God?" Some people (erroneously I think) believe his name is making the statement that Michael is one who is like God!. 
Another angel is named in the Bible, his name is Gabriel. His name means "God is great!" Gabriel seems to be an angel of significant importance, sometimes tasked with bringing messages or announcements to people.
Gabriel and Michael engage in battle against other angels. Not all angels are good.
The Bible uses the phrase "the devil and his angels". It seems possible, if not likely, that the devil has cohorts who sided with him in rebellion against God. Many believe that these 'angels' are also known as demons, certainly a possibility.
In appearance, angels seem to be able to manifest themselves as human in appearance. Satan is said to ne able to appear as an angel of light. It seems, that from the reactions of people who have encountered angels in the Bible, they can also be quite terrifying.
Angels are usually referred to with a masculine pronoun, never a feminine pronoun. However, Jesus said that in the resurrection, people are not married, but will be like the angels, possibly indicating that angels are genderless, at least as we think of gender.
The book of Hebrews asks us a rhetorical question: "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"
There is more of course, but I am already running long is writing details about angels.

[missmuffet]

Angels have the ability to appear in human form. When an angel does appear to someone in a human form which is very rare it is called a spiritual epiphany. Angels always appear as male. There are only two kind of angels that have wings which are the cherubim and seraphim. Otherwise angels do not have wings. Angels do not need wings to fly they are spiritual beings and not bound by the laws of the physical universe. 

[Starise]

I'll throw out what I see to be a few inconsistencies in some interpretations that are at odds with one another.

Often there is bible support for both views until further context is achieved.

• The idea that Satan and all fallen angels are locked up in chains, yet we have other indications Satan and his angels are active in a world wide deception NOW.
• The idea that fallen angels will die like humans when God made an eternal place to punish them.

The human/angel dilemma. Are angels similar to humans or can angels become human? Big difference between these differing views. 

I'll bring up a few more dynamics- The fact that humans are tempted of their own carnal lusts AND by outside forces.. How much a part do fallen angels play in this? None, some, or a lot? When you are tempted can you tell if it's your nature or something else trying to impose a thought on you? God held both Satan and Eve accountable. Adam was different in that he was not directly tempted by Satan, yet both Adam and Eve sinned.

If we say angels have significant influence in the temptations of men, we could infer good angels could have a good opposite effect on men's minds if the Lord allowed it.

In other threads the serpent connection was raised when a study of Satan or angels comes up. Some make the connection to something evil and vile, but apparently they had this characteristic, this maybe appearance before the angels fell. Some think the serpent appearance was a temporary incarnation.

 

Ezekiel 28:13-15

You were the seal of perfection,
    full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
    the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
    carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
    topaz, onyx and jasper,
    lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings[c] were made of gold;
    on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
    for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
    you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
    from the day you were created
    till wickedness was found in you

This is clearly not a reference to a worldly king or leader even though the "King Of Tyre" is reference earlier.

I believe much of the confusion surrounding this subject has to do with humans trying to parse earthly ideas when we are not referring to earthly creatures. They do not have earthly traits and they don't respond in earthly ways. They seem to have capabilities while on earth that are far beyond our own, yet this isn't their origin. They have a certain command of this earthly environment. To what extent I don't know.

 

[Riverwalker]

Okay then I have a question about Jude

I have no problem that 1/3 of the angels fell, I am just not sure they are free to mess with men, as Satan is

Jude seem to suggest they are not

 Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

[Anne2]

Malachi Speaks of the priests as angels of the Lord also.

Mal 2:1   And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.
2  If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
3  Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it. {corrupt: or, reprove } {spread: Heb. scatter } {one … : or, it shall take you away to it }
4  And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
5  My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.
6  The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.
7  For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
8  But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.