First Resurrection, is it of Time Place or Rank?

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, transmogrified said:

I'm not sure what you mean here...was there something I said that was not scriptural?

 

5 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Of course we are to listen to what Jesus says...but he sent apostles and prophets as well and this is the foundation we are to build on...the foundation is:

1) Apostles

2) Prophets

3) Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone...

So it is not just Jesus we are to listen to, but also to the apostles and prophets...I was referring to the two witnesses in Revelation...this was recorded by John who an apostle...and in other posts I was referring to what Isaiah said who was a prophet...and when talking about the resurrection on the last day I was referring to what Jesus said in John 6

Paul the apostle spoke about those who sleep in Jesus...Jesus spoke about Lazarus sleeping...where Jesus appeared to his disciples after his resurrection in another form was written in Mark 16:12...the analogy of a butterfly was an illustration of what 'morph' means ...which means to transform or change something from one form to another...

I don't like some of the things you are posting and I have to let you know the reasons why.

One of the problems is that you are all over the place. 

Jumping from one place to another from the old to the new, bringing things into the picture without discipline. 

You always say "he said that and he said that", we need to study the scriptures and see what they try to tell us.

No all at ones, but one at a time. 

Please tell me which one you want to discuss first...and please try just try not to bring things into the scripture that are not there, unless they are suggested.

Example "this is my only son in whom I am well please "

Suggesting that he did not have no one else before, which it can be said in other words that he was still childless till the time Jesus was born.

Or that Jesus is the first man who came from above.

And this is what Jesus kept saying repeatedly. 

 

5 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Blessings to you- Gary

[transmogrified]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Please tell me which one you want to discuss first...and please try just try not to bring things into the scripture that are not there, unless they are suggested.

Did you want to look at the first resurrection? We don't have to but that was the opening statement...'First resurrection, is it of time, place or rank?'

The resurrection is probably one of the most misunderstood things when it comes to discussing the rapture...and the resurrection is one of the foundational doctrines of Christ so it is important to be building on the foundation Paul laid..

So anyway, the first thing it says 'The first resurrection -is it of :

1) Time or

2) Place or

3) Rank 

Would you like to start with one of these?

 

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Did you want to look at the first resurrection? We don't have to but that was the opening statement...'First resurrection, is it of time, place or rank?'

The resurrection is probably one of the most misunderstood things when it comes to discussing the rapture...and the resurrection is one of the foundational doctrines of Christ so it is important to be building on the foundation Paul laid..

So anyway, the first thing it says 'The first resurrection -is it of :

1) Time or

2) Place or

3) Rank 

Would you like to start with one of these?

 

 

 

Please do not put your self in the box of the title.

Which it meant to stimulate conversation. 

You want to discuss the resurrection, the resurrection, that's ok.

Please do not bring the (raptured) into the conversation, for many reasons....

We start with the resurrection and with Jesus, and we take it from there. 

Do you want to say something about to what Jesus said when he spoke about himself and said: I am the resurrection. 

The disciples were there and they heard it more than ones.

And that's what they preached without any doubt. 

Let's start with that, one thing at the time....stay with Jesus. 

And why we look into that we keep in mind about what is the resurrection and what is the meaning of the first resurrection. 

And we can try to discern from there as to who and why someone is the first resurrection meaning his name is written in the book of Life, as per the relevant scriptures in the book of revelation.

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[Diaste]

On 4/11/2022 at 9:23 AM, DeighAnn said:

NEW COVENANT -  this is where the 'no delay' is found

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 3:18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

1Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

1Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

1Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

1Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1Peter 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

1Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


 

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

You're mistaking the eternal soul for an eternal body. Once born again we have passed from death to life immediately in the spiritual sense of our soul is now assured a place with our Father in our Father's house. Our body does not need to die for this to be true. We don't need a spiritual body for this promise to be sure and unending.  

On 4/11/2022 at 9:23 AM, DeighAnn said:

1Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

WHAT IT DOESN'T SAY IS 

FOR IF CHRIST RISE NOT, THEN IS NOT CHRIST RAISED

IT SAYS IF THE DEAD,  THE DEAD WHO ARE SLEEPING THE DEAD WHO ARE IN THEIR GRAVES  IF THE DEAD DON'T RISE THEN CHRIST IS NOT RAISED

CHRIST ISN'T RAISED IF THE DEAD DON'T RAISE. 

IF THE DEAD WAIT TO RAISE THEN CHRIST MUST ALSO WAIT TO RAISE.  
 

This is gap filling. Paul is using rhetoric in his arguments to show the proposition the dead do not rise as invalid. The idea here is the dead rise if Christ is risen, and He is, so the dead do rise; but it's not proof of when and it's not proof the dead rise immediately upon death.

There has to be the trump and the shout which calls up the body to be remade spiritually and immortal. Jesus has to return in the clouds. These are the facts surrounding the risen dead in Christ and must be in evidence. 

To me this idea you have is unscriptural. 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

You're mistaking the eternal soul for an eternal body. Once born again we have passed from death to life immediately in the spiritual sense of our soul is now assured a place with our Father in our Father's house. Our body does not need to die for this to be true. We don't need a spiritual body for this promise to be sure and unending.  

This is gap filling. Paul is using rhetoric in his arguments to show the proposition the dead do not rise as invalid. The idea here is the dead rise if Christ is risen, and He is, so the dead do rise; but it's not proof of when and it's not proof the dead rise immediately upon death.

There has to be the trump and the shout which calls up the body to be remade spiritually and immortal. Jesus has to return in the clouds. These are the facts surrounding the risen dead in Christ and must be in evidence. 

To me this idea you have is unscriptural. 

If you please, you need to elaborate more and more specifically, because there is a lot of scriptures and of course comments. 

A lot of scriptures, few comments. 

Please point what is suppose to be unscriptural. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

You're mistaking the eternal soul for an eternal body

No, I am not 'mistaking' eternal soul for eternal body as the body/soul/spirit is one. The 'body' may change but they don't 'separate'  EVERY SEED A BODY. 

Any possibility  your belief NEEDS TO CHANGE to fit WHAT IS WRITTEN?

 

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Once born again we have passed from death to life immediately in the spiritual sense of our soul is now assured a place with our Father in our Father's house.

100% agreed.  

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Our body does not need to die for this to be true. We don't need a spiritual body for this promise to be sure and unending.  

 AND yet GOD GAVE us ONE!!!
 

 

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

This is gap filling. Paul is using rhetoric in his arguments to show the proposition the dead do not rise as invalid. The idea here is the dead rise if Christ is risen, and He is, so the dead do rise; but it's not proof of when and it's not proof the dead rise immediately upon death.

YOU YOURSELF HAVE NO PROBLEM with the SOUL rising IMMEDIATELY do you?

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE  EVERY SEED A BODY........

I assure you it ISN'T BECAUSE OF WHAT IS WRITTEN 

It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

AM I 'GAP FILLING' OR ARE YOU 'GAP CREATING'? 

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

'THE DYING of the first one BRINGS LIFE to the other.  WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT HEAVENLY BODY IS MADE ALIVE AT THAT POINT FOR???  TO MARK THE DECOMP?

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

We BOTH have the SOUL rising  but BECAUSE I BELIEVE

the one dies which makes the other alive and that every seed a body

I AM THE ONE MISTAKEN AND GAP FILLING?





 

[Anne2]

On 4/1/2022 at 5:19 PM, DeighAnn said:

When Christ returns the planet earth has

those who have endured to the end - the alive and remaining

those who have taken the mark of the beast

those who are dead (unsaved) in the dust/grave/hell/ of the earth

WHICH do you consider to be HIS?


ALL of those who received the gift of SALVATION, the 'saved' NEVER DIE,

so they can't be AMONGST the 'dead' who are in the dust of the earth/in hell/hades/graves/in death/dead 


because they are already risen.

 

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

(((1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and WITH WHAT BODY DO THEY COME? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die  37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, AND TO EVERY SEED HIS OWN BODY)))

 

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ: whom He raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. (WHAT BODY DO THEY RISE WITH?)

1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits

of them that slept. (WHO was 'dead'/in the dust/in the grave when Christ rose? those who had been UNDER THE LAW, the law that could not forgive but NOW with the New Covenant we have A SAVIOR.  Saves us from DEATH.  The death that came upon ADAM BUT now Christ's blood washes us clean)

1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death,(of the flesh body)

by man came also the resurrection of the dead.(of the spiritual body)

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;
(but every man in his own RANK, Christ KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, every other man as Generals, Lieutenant General, Major General, Brigadier General, Colonel etc.

afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.

Who is already with HIM?  

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

So all who have died with the Gift of Salvation are with HIM ALREADY.  So who would be HIS?  


 

So then baptism, we are buried with him and raised (resurrected) in newness of life?

The first death being dead to sin in baptism?

The second death being the death we die in Adam? Which is the one death all men die and then after the judgement

Which Judgement does not hurt us because we have already been 

judged, dead and raised in Christ already.

Both being raised in the second resurrection have already been judged. The Just and the unjust.

We have been justified in Christ already?

Have you all considered the first death is our baptism into Christ?

Edited April 13, 2022 by Anne2

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Anne2 said:

So then baptism, we are buried with him and raised (resurrected) in newness of life?

The first death being dead to sin in baptism?

The second death being the death we die in Adam? Which is the one death all men die and then after the judgement

Which Judgement does not hurt us because we have already been 

judged, dead and raised in Christ already.

Both being raised in the second resurrection have already been judged. The Just and the unjust.

We have been justified in Christ already?

Have you all considered the first death is our baptism into Christ?

So then baptism, we are buried with him and raised (resurrected) in newness of life?
Yes, I believe that is a resurrection, though some do not.  I believe this is THE FOUNDATION of those of the FIRST RESURRECTION,  and I think it is what Jesus is saying

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?


The first death being dead to sin in baptism?
The death of living by the lust of the flesh,  and rising up living by the leading of the SPIRIT which in baptism we proclaim, coming to faith, accepting the gift of Salvation

The second death being the death we die in Adam? Which is the one death all men die and then after the judgement

The SECOND death is by GOD in the lake of fire of both body and soul.  The death we suffer from Adams sin is death of the flesh body having been cut off from the tree of life AND Your closest friend posted in this thread a VERY eye opening post on a deeper level I highly suggest reading.  

Both being raised in the second resurrection have already been judged. The Just and the unjust.

THIS RESURRECTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LIVING, JUST THE DEAD

All who come to the Lord while living are of the FIRST RESURRECTION and are never among the dead. NOT IN THE EARTH NOT IN JUDGEMENT


THE SECOND RESURRECTION comes to 'the dead that rise' when Christ returns who will be JUDGED AT THE GWTJ AND FOUND IN THE BOOK OF LIFE

 

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


THE REST OF THE DEAD WHO DON'T RISE IN THE RESURRECTION OF THE JUST AND THE UNJUST

in 1000 years  AND THE DEAD LIVED NOT FOR 1000 YEARS

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

No, I am not 'mistaking' eternal soul for eternal body as the body/soul/spirit is one. The 'body' may change but they don't 'separate'  EVERY SEED A BODY. 

Any possibility  your belief NEEDS TO CHANGE to fit WHAT IS WRITTEN?

 

A seed can lay dormant for years.

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 AND yet GOD GAVE us ONE!!!

Sure. Not disputing this. But is it 'gave' or 'will give'? The only timing I see for this:

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothedf with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."

At the last trump is when the change comes. Not before. And... "we will all be changed".