Interesting passage gives insights into Predestination and Foreknowledge

[George]

Share in love... I cleaned some of this thread... I will be banning some people from this discussion if it continues to go down a path that is not edifying. 

[Alive]

Just now, Heaven_Bound said:

I want a Biblical example of this:

 

Show me Scripture for Show me where God's Grace [[MAKES ME]] Choose Him and goes against my Free Will? Because the Bible says God's Word is Truth and man is a Liar!

^

Show me where we find this example in the Bible?

 

SHOW ME WHERE GOD IS FORCING SOMEONE TO FOLLOW HIM!!

You keep repeating this. God does not have to violate my will in order to regenerate me. Its a Gift He bestows on the elect. Irresistable Grace is not a violation.

You aare arguing a strawman. Calvinists do not believe that. Study up.

[kwikphilly]

 

Just now, Heaven_Bound said:

You said it was His Will.

I asked did you submit?

 

I ask again, did you submit, or did His Will make your will choose Him?

For some reason there is a lack of communicating here & perhaps it is simply how it was explained(verbage?)

   I Believe Was Rosie Jack is talking about is being Called out.....n ow we can all agree that the Word of God Says that no one will have an excuse in the end(God Does Reveal Himself & the choice is yours to pursue Him) as for the Elect,those Who are Called out by Him its almost the same except that in regards to this topic,God Already Knows Who Will Receive His Word(Jesus) & who will not.....but God most certainly tugs on our hearts(Conviction),softens our hearts & draws us unto Himself-still,the Bile Says,we have free will.......... Better?

    RosieJack is describing as best she can when her heart felt God tugging at it,she wanted more of Him and opened her heart to Receive Him because she had a softened,repentant heart  She never said God made her Receive Him,He Called her out as He Did you &I ?

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Heaven_Bound said:

I am asking where in the Bible do we see God doing this to someone for you to believe in it?

Like most every doctrine, what is required is a consideration of all scripture and what all scripture has to say on a subject.

Regarding this particular discussion, it helps much to grasp the implications of and the breadth and depth of what the fall did to Adam's race. All of it teaches us of Christ, and the need for God to have gone to such drastic measures to bring about redemption. Much confusion results when we don't clarify, 'free will' and how utterly bound that will became since the fall, when that will is applied 'Godward' salvifically. Adam's race became so anti-god in terms of the required righteousness, that God needed to step in--for His elect. This is just as much true before the Cross as after.

How God manages this, we don't fully know----yet.

Adam's race became so utterly seperated from God's requirement of righteousness, that no act or will of him can affect any change or rescue from that state.

God's steps in.

[kwikphilly]

6 minutes ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

I am now leaving this topic, as I’ve repeated my self, so many times it’s like flogging a dead horse...God Bless you Heaven Bound And May you find the truth that you are looking for, in Jesus Name...Amen!..🙏

Please dont leave @Rosie1jack2pauline3

      I know it gets frustrating when you ae trying to explain something & i is just s frustrating for the one who is not understanding(& visa versa).....lets try to communicate better maybe rearrange our words a little and maybe take a peak from each others eyes.......

    We dont always have to agree but I do believe we must really try(as difficult as it is) to understand why someone is asking & I'm not just talking to you.....most certainly ot,Heave_Bound as well

    You both contribute so much here at Worthy and you both are probably on the same page (nearly,lol) ....remember the eney wants division,lets not give him that!!!!            With much love,your Sister in Christ,Kwik

[kwikphilly]

18 minutes ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

I am now leaving this topic, as I’ve repeated my self, so many times it’s like flogging a dead horse...God Bless you Heaven Bound And May you find the truth that you are looking for, in Jesus Name...Amen!..🙏

Please dont leave @Rosie1jack2pauline3

      I know it gets frustrating when you ae trying to explain something & i is just s frustrating for the one who is not understanding(& visa versa).....lets try to communicate better maybe rearrange our words a little and maybe take a peak from each others eyes.......

    We dont always have to agree but I do believe we must really try(as difficult as it is) to understand why someone is asking & I'm not just talking to you.....most certainly ot,Heave_Bound as well

    You both contribute so much here at Worthy and you both are probably on the same page (nearly,lol) ....remember the eney wants division,lets not give him that!!!!            With much love,your Sister in Christ,Kwik

[kwikphilly]

1 minute ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

Kwik, I’m not very good at explaining, you and Alive are brilliant at explaining.... I was rubbish at school,😂😅...i May be back later, I know what I want to say, but can’t get the darn words out,😂..I hope “ darn” isn’t a rude word, if it is let me know and I will delete..💗🙏

Clearly you are our Sister in Christ,as clear as Heaven_Bound is as well.....take a breath,take your time & do come back ......we all have our own very unique,intimate & personal experience -that can be pretty "darn' hard to describe 

   But we must ALL be patient with one another no matter how many obstacles come our way....let us all pray the heart & mind of Christ and rely on Him to help us do better....in LOVE

                With love in Christ,Kwik 

[Alive]

The following is my testimony, as I have shared before. Listen carefully, please.

When the Lord spoke to me as clear as a bell in that moment (ya NT stuff, I know)

:-)

There was no yes, that sounds good, ya I believe that. I just knew! I knew! I heard Him speak to me and I knew--and the adventure began. Some very drastic things took place in the following days.

The Father had already regenerated me before I heard that scripture quoted in a perfect answer to my cry heavenward. I had been living in a very deep debauchery and wanted mystical powers. I had lots of money through drug sales and such--sex and money. The change in that instant was absolute! I gave it all away and ceased all activities and began to devour scripture. God made me something very different in that instant. I did not choose--it just happened.

Later, there were many choices.

______________________________

I am the way, the truth and the life and none can come to the Father but by me.

 

That is the first scripture I heard resound in my heart. I was 18 years old and a seeker. I was studying eastern religions and such things and preparing to leave to live in an Ashram in California with a guy named Paramahansa Yokananda—an Indian mystic. One day while standing outside waiting for a ride, I found myself looking up to heaven and crying out--"God, whoever you are, I want to be aligned with truth".

A couple minutes later a guy I knew from our HS came walking down the sidewalk toward me. He invited me over the next night to play guitars and sing songs. I did to find out it was a bible study--a bunch of Jesus Freaks. LOL

John was my friend's name--he read the above scripture and I heard the Lord speak to me as audible and clear as can be--"I am the Truth". He did not say, one of the truths. He answered my cry which, I am convinced was the result of regeneration. A was as far from Christ as anyone. He was not on my radar.

Before the Father placed me into Christ as a free gift by His Grace---I was like every other sinner member of Adam's fallen race of men.

This is a fact of history. There was nothing in me of righteousness.

In one moment, Christ spoke to me and said, "I am the Truth". In that moment, He put faith in my heart to believe Him.

This too, is a fact of history. It happened.

Miraculously, in that same moment, the Father placed me 'into' Christ and at that moment everything that the Father accomplished 'In Christ' on the cross, the resurrection and the ascension became true of and for me, as well.

He relocated me from the 1st Adam to the 2nd Adam. How could I possibly have accomplished this on my own?

John 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

That moment was my Damascus. Every one born from above had the same experience.

[kwikphilly]

19 minutes ago, Heaven_Bound said:

Amen!

I knew this.   But in that tugging Moment, we also Submit to God.   I was merely asking if she submitted.

Of course she did......only she had diffuculty explaining that so that you would understand & she was not understanding your question either because  it came across like an attack(imo)..... I understood your question & you were simply looking for a yes or a no but believe me,our "tone" (if thats even possible in a post,lol) can throw someone for a loop...... patience Beloved,gentler,softer,kinder......it helps alot!!! btw,I love you!

 Our Sister in Christ<kwik

[enoob57]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:24 PM, Anne2 said:

How does this work?

21  Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22  But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23  And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
 

God is saying we are responsible to the revelation God gives us! It is revealed here in Scripture

Luke 12:48 (KJV)

[48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

On 4/21/2022 at 9:28 PM, George said:

How does what work?  Basically, those towns saw the miracles ... and yet, didn't believe.

More was given them so more was required of them... We have been given The Holy Spirit within ... considering this think about our responsibility level ...

 

 

On 4/22/2022 at 11:34 AM, Anne2 said:

 I am not trying to be difficult, or argue here :-) but.....

Being true or not, he still raised him up for that very purpose. 

Another question here, this story is much similar to Joseph and his brethren right?

Pharoh, the most powerful of that time in ruling, could have chosen either way and God would have gotten His Glory from him either way... he, Pharoh, just chose to be the enemy of God yet God received His glory by destruction of His enemy...

 

 

1 hour ago, Alive said:

THere is a misunderstanding of what regeneration is--being given a new heart---it is only after this, that a process of submitting to God can begin. He gives us a new heart, we are born from above and begin the adventure of sanctification. An ongoing process, by which He is working in us and we are changed from one degree of glory to another.

The evidence of this is the fruit of the Spirit and a increasing expression of Love toward others. Of extending the same Grace and Mercy, that we learn we very much need ourselves.

As to date I have no one shown me a verse where regeneration precedes faith?

 

 

1 hour ago, Alive said:

What she is describing is referred to as irresistable grace. It does not violate our will as it is a Gift that God provides for the elect. He is irresistable in that He is God and will have those who He gives the Son.

He first regenerates us. Gives us the new heart. This is wehre 'election' comes in. Then and only then are we able to say 'yes' through the gift of saving faith which is entirely by Grace--not through any power or mechanism that we can bring to bear.

It is all God. Before His reaching down, we are all in a deep dark hole impossible to crawl out of. That hole is a very very dead death.

Click on 'Salvation is Relocation' in my signature below. It may help.

You said "it does not violate our will" in calvinsim you don't have a will! It's all God's Will...

 

45 minutes ago, Alive said:

OK--let's try this shall we?

What is Jesus, the Creator of all that is, saying here.

Does it sound like God makes the first move?

Yes or no, please.

John 6:44 (NAS20S) “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

 

God made the first move by The Cross

John 12:32 (NASB)

[32] “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

 

 

27 minutes ago, Alive said:

Like most every doctrine, what is required is a consideration of all scripture and what all scripture has to say on a subject.

Regarding this particular discussion, it helps much to grasp the implications of and the breadth and depth of what the fall did to Adam's race. All of it teaches us of Christ, and the need for God to have gone to such drastic measures to bring about redemption. Much confusion results when we don't clarify, 'free will' and how utterly bound that will became since the fall, when that will is applied 'Godward' salvifically. Adam's race became so anti-god in terms of the required righteousness, that God needed to step in--for His elect. This is just as much true before the Cross as after.

How God manages this, we don't fully know----yet.

Adam's race became so utterly seperated from God's requirement of righteousness, that no act or will of him can affect any change or rescue from that state.

God's steps in.

total depravity, corpse like dead,  is not a Biblical supported doctrine...