Interesting passage gives insights into Predestination and Foreknowledge

[Selah7]

11 hours ago, Marathoner said:

There is nothing too great for our God. I did indeed choose Him in that moment, and life as I knew it was over... and then it began! The life He gives to us is worth everything, and He does as He pleases with me. I wouldn't have it any other way.

HalleluYAH 

[B-B]

I’m still a fence sitter/still chewing over these issues… however I’m Curious to know how those folks who are confident about their interpretation of Scriptures, explain Jesus words below..
 

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, (but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6

 

In conjunction with:

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. 

Romans 8:29-30

Edited April 21, 2022 by B-B

[Dennis1209]

18 hours ago, George said:

... and in this free choice ... also at times changes the mind of God!  Think of Jonah!

Jon 3:2  “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and call out against it the message that I tell you.” 

Jon 3:3  So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, three days' journey in breadth. 

Jon 3:4  Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's journey. And he called out, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

What happened?

Jon 3:6  The word reached the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 

Jon 3:7  And he issued a proclamation and published through Nineveh, “By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything. Let them not feed or drink water, 

Jon 3:8  but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them call out mightily to God. Let everyone turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 

Jon 3:9  Who knows? God may turn and relent and turn from his fierce anger, so that we may not perish.” 

Jon 3:10  When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.

God changed His mind! Based on the FREE WILL decision by the people of Nineveh's actions -- REPENTANCE!

Nothing is predetermined ... and the free will of men and their actions can literally changed the mind of God!  

Amazing -- the God we serve!

May we expand a little more on Jonah as a type and a shadow? What do you think?

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Except for Matthew Henry, most of the commentaries I checked are silent on this question. Did Jonah remain alive in the fish (whale) belly for three days, or did he die, and the Lord resurrected him?

On a side note, and in hindsight: I think we may have had our Nineveh moment with the Twin Towers (among other warnings) and the astonishing election of Donald Trump. Directly after both, our nation reverted, worse than ever.

I can only view Trump's election as divine intervention and providence. There is a pattern in the appointment of the kings of Israel & Judah. Is there a pattern with the placement of the U.S. Presidents for the plan and purposes of God?

Daniel 2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, B-B said:

I’m still a fence sitter/still chewing over these issues… however I’m Curious to know how those folks who are confident about their interpretation of Scriptures, explain Jesus words below..
 

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, (but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6

 

In conjunction with:

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. 

Romans 8:29-30

Omniscient, predestination, foreknowledge, free will, and choice are difficult concepts to grasp, at least for me. Right or wrong, the following is how I understand this complex concept.

The Bible explains itself. In this thread, George brings up a couple of biblical examples of how to understand this concept the best, and I will reiterate them.

There is nothing the Lord does not know; He is infinitely wise. He knew us before we were in the womb, and he knows the number of hairs on our heads.

With that foreknowledge of our thoughts and actions from beginning to end. What that dash entails and represents between our birth date and the expiration date on our tombstone.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God so loved the preordained. No, that is not what it says or implies, and salvation is available to all of us.

To reiterate what George said:

Foreknew: The Greek word used here, proginōskō, means “to know in advance” or “to choose beforehand.” It speaks of God’s awareness of the actual and potential future (Acts 2:23; 26:5; Rom 8:29; 11:2; 1 Pet 1:2; 2 Pet 3:17). The word means “foreordained” (Acts 2:23; 1 Pet 1:20), Those whom God foreknew, He also loved and ordained to be conformed to the image of His Son. Even with ‘free will’, the Lord knows all the possible choices.

Example:

1 Samuel 23:10 (KJV) Then said David, O LORD God of Israel, thy servant hath certainly heard that Saul seeketh to come to Keilah, to destroy the city for my sake. 11. Will the men of Keilah deliver me up into his hand? will Saul come down, as thy servant hath heard? O LORD God of Israel, I beseech thee, tell thy servant. And the LORD said, He will come down. 12. Then said David, Will the men of Keilah deliver me and my men into the hand of Saul? And the LORD said, They will deliver thee up. 13. Then David and his men, which were about six hundred, arose and departed out of Keilah, and went whithersoever they could go. And it was told Saul that David was escaped from Keilah; and he forbare to go forth. 14. And David abode in the wilderness in strong holds, and remained in a mountain in the wilderness of Ziph. And Saul sought him every day, but God delivered him not into his hand.

David wisely inquired and made use of the Lord’s foreknowledge. The Lord knows every outcome based on our free will, choices and decisions.

It is perhaps not possible for us to fully comprehend this concept, and my view may not be the correct one.

[JohnR7]

19 hours ago, George said:

Nothing is predetermined ... and the free will of men and their actions can literally changed the mind of God!  

In Psalm 139:16 God writes the book of our life at or before our conception. He works in our life to forfill His plan and His purpose. I always wonder about the time when God told Moses to get out of the way and let Him destroy the people. 

"I have seen these people," the LORD said to Moses, "and they are a stiff-necked people. Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation." But Moses sought the favor of the LORD his God.

[B-B]

10 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

It is perhaps not possible for us to fully comprehend this concept,

I think I agree with you here@Dennis1209 … so appreciate your response 😊

[Alive]

The key here is those things that George brought up speak of earthly choices and not that which is Godward for a true believing faith.

That is where regeneration by the hand oand will of the Father enter the stage.

[JohnR7]

2 hours ago, angels4u said:

I'm so sorry to hear you lost your daughter..

Someday there will be a very happy reunion and by the way this world is going that day might not be too far away..

I had a very vivid dream about her and I am still learning from that dream. In the dream there were maybe 50 or 60 toys or gifts that people had given her. But they were all new in the box. She did not open any of them to play with them. They were all given to her by people that she was related to. She wanted to keep them in new condition as a reminder of the person that gave it to her. She wanted to know why I did not bring her a gift. When she found out that I was her father she was very excited. She told all her friends about it. They were all happy for her because some of them have fathers that are not going to make it there. 

I use the April 13, 2029 and the Apophis asteroid as a marker. Then the day of Pentecost would be 50 days after that.  We do not know for sure when the first Pentacost was when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the church. The year 29 is as good of a guess as any. So it has been almost 2,000 years and we are very close to the beginning of the third day. People say: What if nothing happens? Well then we can buy a cake and celebrate the 2,000 year anniversary or birthday of the Church. 

 

[B-B]

3 minutes ago, Heaven_Bound said:

If we must work out our own Salvation with Fear and Trembling, it goes beyond what the Father has given to the Son.   It falls directly onto the Individual to Believe, to use their Free Will, and to accept the Invitation.

This process is presented to every human being.

Sadly, only but a Few will choose to Follow.

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Philippians 2

[B-B]

 

Hi @Heaven bound 😀

My understanding of the Scriptures from Philippians 2, for Believers, is as follows:

Work out your own Salvation - Believers actively pursue obedience in the process of being sanctified. (btw - Its not  referring to salvation by works). 

Fear & Trembling - Believers will have a healthy fear of offending God

God working in us - it is the Lord Himself who produces any spiritual fruit/good works in a Believers life. He influences the Believer (by the Indwelling Holy Spirit), through their desires/actions. His power enables Believers to desire to live godly lives.

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by B-B