Is there anything WRITTEN stating 'FLESH' rises or will be raised at any time? (besides Christ's, of course)

[DeighAnn]

58 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Next, you turn to "them that slept". What is then sleep - if not DEATH? But you have a problem. In a previous posting you deny David is in the grave. But now you have men coming out of the graves. Why should they come out of the graves when they already believed and died. Have you not consistently said that they leave this body behind and ascend in a spiritual body?

Yes, it was DEATH.  

I have NEVER denied that DAVID died and was buried and his tomb was still on earth.  WHAT I DO DENY IS that HE, he being his spirit/soul/spiritual body IS IN THAT TOMB.

THE ONLY THING IN THAT TOMB IS A DEAD CARCASS.  There is no part of David waiting to be RESURRECTED.  He went to heaven long ago.  


Yes, I have contended over and over and over that the CARCASS is left behind and goes back to dust NEVER TO BE USED/resurrected/seen AGAIN.  The only thing that the dead carcass provided was a 'seed' 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Next, you hold to a half-verse "they shall never die", but those of Matthew 27 died BEFORE Jesus did. What did they believe that had not yet occurred? And if they believed, why did they die? Why does scripture record Stephen as "giving up his spirit". James 2:26 says that the body without the spirit IS DEAD.

Yes, THE EARTH BODY WITHOUT a SPIRIT is a CARCASS.  Can't tell one carcass from another.  They all are decomp and dust and whatever other gross things they become.  

ALL WHO DIED BEFORE CHRIST are a part of the 'them that slept' whos' GRAVES were opened and ascended to heaven when Christ did.  


EVERYONE WHO DIED UNDER THE LAW, UNLESS THEY WERE PERFECT under the law, DIED and went into the dust of the ground (what couldn't the law do?  it couldn't FORGIVE SINS so that those under the law were considered 'in sin' if they had so much as a trespass and SIN = DEATH)

UNLIKE 

Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living:

ye therefore do greatly err.

READ IT CLOSELY because

Abraham was NEVER LEFT IN THE GRAVE,

neither was Isaac,

neither was Jacob

because EVEN BEFORE  JESUS WALKED THE EARTH they came to GOD IN FAITH.  And even being UNDER THE LAW, because of their FAITH, their sins were forgiven at death and they went to be where HE IS. 

RESURRECTION is not of 'A' time and place.  There are many.  

TRUTH,  there are TWO very distinct 'GROUP' ones those being

the 'last day' of the old covenant and

the last day of this age for THE DEAD. 

Other than that it is on going.  

 

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: (and the graves were opened)

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this? (and the New Covenant came into play)



 

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Next, you say that all who are NOT SAVED still die. Stephen died, James too. Were they believers?

Their flesh bodies DIED.  Their carcasses stayed in the dirt.  Their spirit/soul/spiritual bodies went to be with the Lord in heaven.  

[ayin jade]

54 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Please, if you could, tell me how 'with the whole world being deceived and taking the mark of the beast' 

(IF THE TIME were not shortened EVEN GODS ELECT would be deceived, telling us IT IS EVERYONE except those who overcome and endure to the end,  that receives the mark) 

 

Matthew 24

24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders; so much so that, if it were possible, they would deceive even the elect.

 

Im pretty sure I know the source of some of your beliefs, and if Im correct, that person is not a good teacher. His teachings are in serious error.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

And then you say that in this group of men who took the mark of the Beast there are "just and unjust". How so? The criteria you have been adamant about is BELIEVING - not just works. Then, among the just and unjust are those who have OVERCOME and ENDURED to the end will not die. But John 11:25, the second half which you constantly quote, does not consider OVERCOMING and ENDURING. It is based on BELIEF!

IT isn't just those who have taken the mark of the beast.  There are all those who have DIED NOT HAVING BEEN SAVED,  who are still in the dust of the earth waiting for the Lord to return to 'raise the DEAD'.   

Possibly SOME of those who took the mark of the beast and SOME of those who were in the graves WILL RISE UP when Christ returns.  NOT ALL THE DEAD will rise when Christ returns.  

ALL of the Just will and some of the Unjust will.  

WHY WOULD SOMEONE WHO IS JUST BE AMONGST THE DEAD?  

Because they DIDN'T receive the gift of salvation for what ever reason.  THEY never came to FAITH.  They are GREAT HONEST giving caring lovely people probably nicer than many Christians, but THEY DIDN'T 'come to faith'.  SO they COULDN'T rise up.  They will be taught the words of God throughout the Millennium by those who will rule and reign with Christ and IF at the end of that day their names are found in the book of life THEY WILL GO FROM BEING DEAD TO BEING MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST.  BUT only then.  Who are the UNJUST?  


ONLY GODS ELECT will overcome and endure to the end.  There is not a question about where they stand.  They are the MOST JUST people EVER as they will make it through the tribulation of Satan without ever becoming unfaithful to GOD.  

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

And then you base your theory that believers will not die. But let us look at the verse.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

So Martha was wrong. She maintains the resurrection at the last day, not when a Christian dies. Who is correct? You or Martha?
Jesus does not correct Martha. But He points to Himself as the resurrection. But then He says; "He that BELIEVES in me, though he were DEAD, yet shall he live!". So there is DEATH for the believer! And "shall" is future tense!

WHY DO YOU STOP THERE?  'SHALL' WAS FUTURE TO THEM BUT NOT THAT FAR FUTURE.  WHAT DID HE SAY AFTER THAT THAT APPLIES TO US UNDER THE NEW COVENANT?  

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?


YES, MARTHA WAS right as far as the OLD COVENANT, BUT WRONG as far as THE NEW COVENANT.  She was born and raised under the OLD but she would die under the NEW.  

Jesus DOES NOT confirm what Martha says but GIVES MARTHA THE TRUTH THAT WILL BE IN EFFECT ONCE HE HAS DIED/SHED HIS BLOOD/BROUGHT IN THE NEW

AGAIN, those who DIE before Christ are 'dead' (unless they were of faith or perfect under the law) but who WILL LIVE when their graves open up because THEY HEARD THE GOOD NEWS and were washed clean and so death could no longer hold them.  


What takes place at the FIRST ADVENT?  

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,

 

Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto Him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Luke 4:20 And He closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

Luke 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.



WHAT TAKES PLACE AT THE 2ND ADVENT

and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Now we come to your half verse which you have quoted consistently without its context or the rest of the sentence. "And whosoever liveth ... ". Who does He speak of here? He speaks of those alive at the last day. The word "Whosoever" pegs a specific TIME because a man lives for 70 or so years and death is guaranteed. That is what Martha alluded to and He (Jesus) enhances by revealing that resurrection is not a special power only, but the embodiment of the Triune God in a Man. Verse 25 and 26 are set "at the last day". And when the "Last Day" dawns there will, as 1st Corinthians 15:51-52 and Thessalonians 4 says, be THE DEAD and "those who are ALIVE and remain". The LIVING BELIEVER at Christ's return is unique. He will never die. He overthrows 1st Corinthians 15:22 and Romans 5 which say that death passed on to all men. They form a select group which needed to be explained in the light of death being the portion of EVERY MAN.

THE LAST DAY IS NEVER SPOKEN OF AGAIN ONCE CHRIST IS RISEN. 

Only man 'keeps' trying to make it a future day.  


The word 'whosoever' tells you WHAT?   I did not know we could just pick out words and assign them new meanings and specific times.  Silly me, just going by what is written. 

1 Corinth 15 

Are you saying the words of God are written so that AT THE very end END of telling us all about DEATH AND RESURRECTION, and the order of things that Paul brings up the MYSTERY OF THE LAST DAY, SO WE ARE TO  take that information and make it all retroactive?  TALK ABOUT putting forth CONFUSION. 

He gave that info at the end because it was about a day when Christ returns and souls are still alive and what takes place on the final day of this age.  






 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Put your thoughts down in coherent order, with scriptures that have the same  words as you have, to show this deep doctrine of men who go to heaven without their bodies in a special spiritual resurrection.

Not sure how many times you will be twisting my words but HERE GOES AGAIN.  

 

1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

I AM THE ONE WHO SAYS THAT SOULS/SPIRITS NEVER GO WITHOUT A BODY.  NEVER.  2 BODIES.  

YOU WILL NEVER FIND ME SAYING ANYTHING DIFFERENT.  NEVER.   YOU READ OR HEARD THAT FROM SOMEONE ELSE OR IT IS YOUR OWN BELIEF.  

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

But I have said enough. Throughout this thread, and the other one, you have hardly commented. Why not set forth a page or two to build a case from plain scriptures that dead men go to heaven. You have displayed a talent for much writing. Put your thoughts down in coherent order, with scriptures that have the same  words as you have, to show this deep doctrine of men who go to heaven without their bodies in a special spiritual resurrection.

HOW does my hardly commenting get twisted into being a doctrine of men?  That makes no sense.  All I put forth are GODS WORDS and you call that a doctrine of men?  Do you see what I mean?  I already commented on the 'to heaven without bodies NEVER being something I have ever put forth.  

 

[DeighAnn]

49 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

Matthew 24

24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders; so much so that, if it were possible, they would deceive even the elect.

 

Im pretty sure I know the source of some of your beliefs, and if Im correct, that person is not a good teacher. His teachings are in serious error.

Please, show me what isn't written that I put forth as truth.  

The 'source' of my beliefs are 'what is written in the words of GOD' and the leading of the Holy Spirit, my teacher,  and a really good one at that.  Unless you show me where they are in error I would have to say HIS teachings are decidedly NOT in error.  I had a teacher who taught me HOW to read the bible on my own, but we didn't agree on quite a few things, but that was long ago.  


Just a couple verses above 24 it is written

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

So what chance has anyone who isn't one of Gods elect?  
 

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.