Remember when- now shaking dust

[B-B]

Just now, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

you should be able to answer questions,

I am able..😊 but I exercise my right to not answer your incessant questions.

[Starise]

In addressing kwik's OT.

Yes there is a time to shake the dust off of our feet and move on. 

The context was instruction to the disciples carrying the word to outlying cities. If they refused to hear it they were to move on. Additionally of importance to me is they took swords. If it became necessary they fought.

I am reminded we don't fight against flesh and blood or men, but against the invisible powers of darkness. How do we defeat them? Through the armor of God and prayer.

These powers of darkness routinely work through men, so it may seem it's the man when it's really a demonic influence behind the man. THIS is what needs to be prayed against and battled.

I have seen disturbances come though men and women at times in an attempt to thwart God's work. Anything that disrupts or attempts to stop the word going out is of the evil one.

Pray against these evil entities when you pick up they are present. Pray they would be powerless to stop the word getting out through the power of Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying people can't be difficult. I think we all know better. The spiritual battle though, is fought in the Spirit and ONLY through the power of God.

We are the branches. We are ONLY the branches.God is the vine.

The enemy can't stand against a nourished branch from the vine who has the power of God.

 

[JohnD]

Yes, I remember those nicktie-grabbing collar-pulling days of early evangelism...

Have you heard the Good News?!

I miss the enthusiasm in one sense and in another I see that very few people are effective at that kind of evangelism.

I am not at all about hiding one's faith (unless under tyranny, and as far as we've slid down the slope of worldliness in this nation, we are not under that kind of tyranny yet).

But I have abandoned the notion that I can convince anyone about anything.

1. It has to be the prompting of the Holy Spirit to them and to me
2. It is not about earning a notch on one's belt or a spiritual work
3. It has to be in love and / or compassion
4. It cannot be about one's own (my) experience or feelings but theirs and that of the Holy Spirit

I found a really big evangelism / winning / seed-planting tool is not to judge them but love them into the Kingdom.

Sinner! You are going to hell! Or your lifestyle God hates!  Just doesn't cut the mustard.

Love conquers all.

And while it was from what I perceived of as love in the beginning, was love for the Lord who just saved me of course, but not his agape love for his lost sheep. That and I was sure people could be easily convinced at what an eternally great deal salvation is.

People have to have choice.

It's what makes our choice meaningful to God:

John 16:27 (AV)
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

 

[Jayne]

I think it is best just to let the Bible speak on this.  Endless circles of repetitive debate/argument is not of God and He said that it destroys the listener.

[1]  2 Timothy 2:14 - "Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen."

Note, he said, the ones who "listen". I've been on several Christian/Bible message boards for 20 years and there is far too much arguing and debating that "ruins the listener" as God says.

I have no halo on my head in saying this.  I've been guilty of it.  I shudder to think any "lurkers" I may have influenced for the worse who may have read my going back and forth for pages and pages and same thread after thread.

I've had more "arguments" about the Trinity, salvation, being reformed, women's issues, and interpretation of scripture than I care to think of.  And it's ALL about getting the other person  - NOT to understand you, but to prove that you are right and they are wrong.  Sometimes there is a sincere desire for the other person to come to a mature understanding of the Word and to reject false teachings or to just grow in Christ.

But sadly, the endless argument, which God does not condone as evidenced by the above scripture - buries that and the listener is damaged.  I didn't make that up.  God said  it.

As I said, I've been there and am ashamed.

To be frank, this just sucks people in.  It's like a toxic drug that fuels our dopamine and adrenaline levels.

After reading this thread - and I just read the first page or two - I have to ask myself:

[1]  Do I spend as much time in prayer, Bible study, and work for the LORD as I do with my rear end in a chair on the computer?

[2] Is it pride that drives me to post what I do or am I legitimately trying to help someone and further the gospel? 

[3] Am I trying to further the Kingdom of God, fellowship with other,  or am I just on an endless and mindless loop of a soapbox.  

Edited May 18, 2022 by Jayne

[Starise]

Not directly addressing anyone here.

Big difference between helping people and fighting the enemy.

Devils don't recognize 'nice'.

True, we are told to overcome evil with good. How exactly is this done? You are fighting a spirit eternally damned that only has an interest in disrupting the work of the Lord.

Evil- sin

Good-Truth and righteousness. Truth trumps lies. Righteousness trumps evil. Love trumps hate

There is a time to shake the dust off.

Most importantly knowledge of what we are dealing with helps us to identify the enemy. A person has hope so long as they are alive on this earth.

Devils have no hope and no remorse, no intention to reason unless it advances their cause. The invisible enemy has no empathy. He enjoys a fight for the sake of a fight. It's really the fight he is after, not necessarily the subject.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings

Starise, yes indeed tis the enemy who is relentless, stirs in strife- causing arguments & division like a dog with a bone... Theres nothing nice about a demon, thr oppressed are under strong delusion.... So Gods Word Says " Do not repay evil with evel" He Also Says " Resist the devil & he will flee"   

Appropriate application for the Forums when one relentlessly stirs the pot- dont debaand forth, RESIST by not entertaining, dont reply - who will the enemy badger if none reply?

 Jayne- I started this thread because all the argumentative, contentious nonsense Ive been reading lately reminded me of when I didnt know when to shut my big mouth and I thought I knew everything, lol.  After 2 , 3 pages of watching it get derailed Im pretty disgusted myself- it was worthy of interesting replies refrencin Scripture as the msjority have contibuted although headinh off Topic

Alive, I do agree & do if this off Topic nonsense continues the thread will be shut down!

[Alive]

1Pet. 4:8 (NAS20S) Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. ⁹ Be hospitable to one another without complaint. ¹⁰ As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the multifaceted grace of God. ¹¹ Whoever speaks is to do so as one who is speaking actual words of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving   by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

[Marathoner]

Wonderful topic, @kwikphilly. When we say, "When I was a babe in Christ..." this does not mean we are also declaring, "I have arrived, yep, sure have, I'm all grown up now, you know it and I know it, so shush your mouth!"

Hardly. We amend the above to say, "I'm growing up and maturing in the Lord, learning when I ought to speak and when I need to shush my mouth."  

I wrote elsewhere about the discipline of the Lord and how He is faithful to teach us His ways. So...

"When I was a babe in Christ" = Wide-eyed and rather clueless
"Growing up and maturing" = Being disciplined by the Lord

I'll share a babe in Christ story with you all. Like many of us were (or are right now), I was zealous to a fault following my baptism. I wasn't a match on fire, I was a walking and talking inferno of tie-grabbing, wide-eyed hollerin'! My brother in Christ and old friend Paul, the man who introduced me to the scriptures and who taught me about our Lord and Savior, took me aside one day and delivered a gentle word.

Paul: "So, you're pretty zealous. As in, 'bop them on the head!' zealous."

Me: "What do you mean by that? I haven't hit anyone upside the head. I would never do that."

Paul: (he laughed) "I'm not referring to using objects to smite others, brother. I'm referring specifically to smiting others with your words."

Me: "Oh?" (something happened that day to spur this discussion) "I was just speaking the truth. What could possibly be wrong about that?"

Paul: "Remember the lesson from James? The apostle writes, 'be slow to speak, quick to listen, and slow to anger for the wrath of man does not serve the righteousness of God.' So, that's what we do. Instead of figuratively seizing someone else by the throat and bashing them on the head, filled with the certain knowledge that we are right, we remain quiet and carefully measure our words and deeds."

Me: "Isn't being right all that matters?"

Paul: (sighing) "Not always, but you'll learn one day. The Lord will bop YOU on the head and you'll come to understand the value of controlling the tongue."

I'm on my way there, yep, sure am, yes indeed, the Lord is faithful to discipline me so I might walk in the words of the apostle one day.  

[OneLight]

6 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Brothers& Sisters

Most of you can remember when, as a Newborn Babe in Christ, you wanted to shout from every rooftop that you are SAVED! Having been Freed you.wanted to Save the world so they too could Receive Gods Grace.We didnt know much back then, all too often we were so excited to Deliver the Good News that we actually could talk people deaf! We talked sooo much that we could not hear!

Sorry for the length, but these are my thoughts after going through the very same desire, with not so good results.  Over the years I have given this much thought and here they are ...

Yes, the new love we have for God is overwhelming when we are first saved.  The message is simple enough that we wondered why it took so long for it to sink into our wee little brains, but now that it has, we have this great desire to share with others!  So, off we go to save the world from their sins.

But, what else is happening that we give very little thought about, if it even crossed our minds in the first place?  Here we are, a new Christian, with the love from God and a desire to be obedient and share the Good News!  So, what's lacking?  A true understanding of scripture and maturity in Him is lacking.  Yet, armed with what little knowledge and maturity we do possess, we head for the front line, ready to do battle for the Lord so that the world would be saved.  (Take the time to picture a baby wearing the full armor of God.  It does not fit at all, nor can it fit until they become mature enough to wear it.)

So, what else is going on?  The enemy is encouraging us to go out and represent God without taking the time to really know Him enough to be a true representative or being mature enough to handle the truth as it needs to be handled.  The enemy knows all too well that our attempt to sound like we know what we are saying will discourage those with whom we will attempt to save, causing the lost to look at us, a representative of God, and conclude that Christians are really clueless, without knowledge or understanding, so why listen.

Instead of taking the time to just tell people they have just accepted Christ and how He is changing them, too many try to sound like they have all the answers to the worlds problem.  Their zeal to save the world blinds them to the truth of their immaturity and how little they really understand.  What is needed is real discipleship where one can grow in knowledge and understanding, learning how to communicate and feed others.

Remember how it felt when you had your first conversation with a baby who looked into your eyes and out came gibberish!  How cute was that!  They wanted to tell you something, but didn't know how to use words yet.  How about watching a baby first learn to feed themselves!  How we would laugh when the food went in their hair, all over their face, clothes, highchair and floor, with very little, if any, reaching the mouth!  Same thing happens when a newly born Christian tries to feed the sinners the words of life.  They have not learned how to feed themselves yet, but they feel like they can feed the world, and the enemy knows this and encourages them to "do their best".

There is a difference between telling others what happened to you and telling others you have the answer to their problems.  For those who are new to Christ, seek discipleship before trying to step into adult shoes.  Take the time to grow and mature, before trying to put on the whole armor of God.  God has a plan for your life, but be patient and wait until it is His time.  Don't come off with some sort of "special knowledge and understanding" without learning what He has already spoken to us through scripture.  Remember, God gave us two eyes and two ears but just one mouth.  Use them proportionately!

 

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Yes, I remember those nicktie-grabbing collar-pulling days of early evangelism...

Have you heard the Good News?!

I miss the enthusiasm in one sense and in another I see that very few people are effective at that kind of evangelism.

I am not at all about hiding one's faith (unless under tyranny, and as far as we've slid down the slope of worldliness in this nation, we are not under that kind of tyranny yet).

But I have abandoned the notion that I can convince anyone about anything.

1. It has to be the prompting of the Holy Spirit to them and to me
2. It is not about earning a notch on one's belt or a spiritual work
3. It has to be in love and / or compassion
4. It cannot be about one's own (my) experience or feelings but theirs and that of the Holy Spirit

I found a really big evangelism / winning / seed-planting tool is not to judge them but love them into the Kingdom.

Sinner! You are going to hell! Or your lifestyle God hates!  Just doesn't cut the mustard.

Love conquers all.

And while it was from what I perceived of as love in the beginning, was love for the Lord who just saved me of course, but not his agape love for his lost sheep. That and I was sure people could be easily convinced at what an eternally great deal salvation is.

People have to have choice.

It's what makes our choice meaningful to God:

John 16:27 (AV)
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

 

An excellent word, John. 20+ years followed that discussion with my brother Paul until we spoke again. After some catching up, we both shared what the Lord was doing in our lives. 

The Lord took everything away from me during those intervening decades. Speaking with Paul was my first real "test" after acquiring the ability to speak fluently again, only it was different this time. I measured my words carefully instead of blurting it out in a rapid-fire manner. 

At the end of our phone call, Paul repeated something the Lord imparted to me when my healing and restoration was complete. "As for you, it is your place to give the encouraging word. As the Lord encourages you, so you will encourage others. He will bless your words when you do so, brother. Focus upon Life and the blessing, not death and the curse."

Loving the brethren is the same as loving our neighbor as ourselves. The encouragement the Lord gives me is not reserved for my brother or sister, it's also for those who are lost in the darkness of this world.