Adam- Gentile or Jew

[Your closest friendnt]

"ADAM-GENTILE OR JEW"

This thread is asking that prove that Adam was not a Jew and then that will make Adam a Gentile...

Or the other way around.  

Then someone sets to study the scriptures and he finds out that Adam was not a Jew...

In the scriptures he finds that Judah was the Patriarch of the Jews, the tribe of the Jews...Judah was one of the twelve children of Jacob...

Jacob was the grandson of Abraham through Issac. 

Jacob was from the bless seed of Abraham and he was in the Covenant of Circumcision. 

Did not matter what a descendant of Judah was doing or believing or worshiping because to be a Jew he had to be a descendant of Judah and be Circumcised on the eight day.

At that time the baby became a Jew, a descendant of Judah and Abraham without his will. 

We must have other people to do all those things to the infant...and we must have Abraham in the Covenant of Circumcision and in the Imputed righteousness. And the promises of God upon him. 

And we must have the infant born from a woman...having been incubated for the gestation period of nine months in the womb of his mother...we must have the mother....and we must have other people who were not descendants of Abraham, the Patriarch Abraham. God had made Abraham the Patriarch of his people, and he did that by giving him imputed righteousness because Abraham believed in God's promises to him that he will bless him with children to numerous...Gen 15:. 

God told him Abraham that he is the Patriarch of his people and that he is the first one to make this promise to him...and he will be his God not only while he lives but also he will be his God after he died. 

This had never happened before, this was the beginning of something new. No one had this blessing before, no one, Abraham was the first one....and his chosen children and their children were included....those without the Law and those with the Law...till the time when the change will take place with the coming of the Messiah who will bring something new. Or till the time when the Covenants were nullified with the death of the enforcer of the Covenant of Sinai. 

So that make it impossible for Adam to be a Jew...

***So what about Adam, was he then a Gentile? 

Adam was made in the image of his creator and he was the one who gave him life...

Was his creator a Gentile? Because Adam took from his Creator...

Adam had fellowship with the Lord God, who was close to him, and he nourish him like a parent nourish their children...

Even after the fall God was with them and he was with his children and accepted worship from him and his children and he was with all the upright descendants of Adam through Shem...

And we have Noah starting something new...God fellowship with Noah....

We now that God considered the Gentiles to be in BDELYGMA polluted cut off from him..and he can not fellowship with them...and there was no sacrifices for forgiveness of sins till the Law was given and that was only for the seed of Abraham and those who abide by the requirements of the Law...

Noah had fellowship with God also for that matter he cannot be a Gentile.  He was not rejected from God Judged to live without any hope of having God as his God...

Lost and aliniated from God at the time of Abraham and there after and without any hope of having contact with God...and without fault of their own and without any hope....the Gentiles, without forgiveness of their sins, and without having God as their God not only while they lived but also after their death.  

The world had a hope before God choose Abraham and at that time their hope was gone...because they were not included in Abraham...

People without any hope to have God as their God called Gentiles because of their birth outside Abraham...

They can believe in God and be righteous and have nothing to do with Idols but God inspite of that he refuses to be their God, he hides his face from them, they are rejected because they are not from the clean seed of Abraham to be eligible to be included in the Covenant of Circumcision and or if they lived before Abraham they were a accepted by God because of their own righteousness if they were from the clean seed of Adam and then Noah...

But no one was given imputed righteousness...and the blessing to run to their children through the Covenant of Circumcision at eight days old, without their consent. 

Adam had fellowship with God and the Lord was his God and he was the Lord's without imputed righteousness, and the fact that after his death he was taken away from God that does not make him a Gentiles.

And the fact that at death he did not have the same blessing Abraham had, which blessing was to have imputed righteousness and at death  he continued to be God's people and be separated from the rest of the world and the God of the dead being off limits to them, having nothing to do with them. 

Adam was not in the blessings of Abraham and he was not in the judgment of the Gentiles...

He was not a Gentile because he was not in the judgment or the standing of the Gentiles. 

If he was a Gentile then he was the father of the Gentiles  

And he would be in disfelowship with God and cut off from God.  Rejected by God, God not accepting his worship and to fellowship with him. 

Was Adam created a Gentile, was his Cteator a Gentile? 

Because he was made in his image. 

@Starise, am I addressing the question at hand or am I answering some other question? 

[missmuffet]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:59 PM, enoob57 said:

Jews came out of gentiles... God chose out of gentiles a chosen people that would be called Israel starting with Abraham...

I will agree with that. 

[Your closest friendnt]

Ephesians 2:11-13

 11. Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called (AB)the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember (AC)that you were at that time separated from Christ, (AD)alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to (AE)the covenants of promise, (AF)having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were (AG)far off have been brought near (AH)by the blood of Christ.

That's how Paul described the Gentiles...

Does Adam fits that description? 

[JohnD]

On 5/26/2022 at 7:04 PM, Golds and Blues said:

Thankyou for referencing 2 kings 16;6.

Help myself and the readers here find the word jew or judite in the cited hebrew text.

I'm aware of all the English translations so please focus on the hebrew. 

Blessed are the poor...."

ani midaberet ivrit

[Hopefully]

“You were all baptized into Christ, and so you were all clothed with Christ. This shows that you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Now, in Christ, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Greek, a slave or free, male or female. You are all the same in Christ Jesus. You belong to Christ, so you are Abraham’s descendants. You get all of God’s blessings because of the promise that God made to Abraham.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭

[Your closest friendnt]

56 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

“You were all baptized into Christ, and so you were all clothed with Christ. This shows that you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Now, in Christ, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Greek, a slave or free, male or female. You are all the same in Christ Jesus. You belong to Christ, so you are Abraham’s descendants. You get all of God’s blessings because of the promise that God made to Abraham.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭

This one I don't get it...

What about Abraham? 

You belong to Christ, how about Abraham, did he had to believe in Jesus Christ to belong to Christ...

Is Abraham with Christ or did Abraham needed the righteousness of Jesus Christ like anyone else who puts his hope in Jesus Christ.  

Does he needs the blood of Jesus Christ? 

I am in Christ Jesus why do I need to be in Abraham? 

[Starise]

This is probably leading into yet another thread on the Jews. 

I have several subjects tied to this I'm looking into more. There are lots of "ifs" I feel I need to answer in order to look into it more.

Dennis had some interesting thoughts, among many others here. I did read though all of the posts and i appreciate the answers. I'm singling him out because he looked at why we call Jews Jews and what he feels are some of the differences with a few historical examples. How some look at them through different lenses. To know what a Jew is we need to define a Jew.

Throughout history I see a constantly failing people that God chose to love and use. IOW they were not selected for their ability or their faithfulness, but only because God chose them to help fulfill His purposes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Starise]

God always has a purpose. The OT tends to paint a picture something like this for me:

-God takes one man(Abram) and fashions a people for His purposes. This man was from Ur. Not a place associated with worship of either a tripartate God or one monotheistic god. I believe they had many gods. Abram was right in the thick of it. Things might be much deeper than the superficial reasons we can see for the PURPOSE of God. Abram seems to be the beginning of what we can see for the Jews, yet as far as we know he was just a gentile man like any other. Why God chose him is a mystery. Abram was the beginning of the Jewish legacy.

- The purpose of the Jews as a people after they were established was to be a people close to God. They were the only ones given temple and sacrifice instructions.

-God carved out a place for the Jews commanding them to destroy many local tribes. This was for purity sake to have them be separate from the world as a people. I believe at that time God had a very close relationship with the Israelites.

-Many see the ultimate consummation  purpose for the Jews as the eventual birth of Jesus, even though it can't technically be claimed Jesus was of Joseph's bloodline. Jesus was born of Mary minus anything from Joseph. We might trace bloodlines through Mary.

I see many exceptions to what look like rules

-Bloodline purity for Jesus. Rahab who was a gentile woman became part of Christ's bloodline. EXCEPTION- If we are guarding bloodlines here this seems a little sloppy.

-Israelites as called out people chosen for God and charged with upholding God's requirements. EXCEPTION- They fell many many times into worship of false gods. 

-To uphold a priestly responsibility through the Levites. EXCEPTION- The priests became corrupt. Later on they added many rules which were never original to God's requirements and demanded the people observe all of it.

-Israel told to exterminate all ungodly heathen nations. Not just their armies, all of them men, women and children even going so far as to call for the animals of these people to be destroyed( which Saul ignored and was judged for). EXCEPTION- Nineveh, one of the most cruel ungodly evil nations on earth were given a chance to repent.

All of these things cause me to scratch my head when I look for a pattern in the way God works. Since He is the same yesterday today and forever.

God clearly made an exception for Nineveh. This wasn't the Jewish nation God sent a prophet too. What can I glean from all of this? God Makes exceptions sometimes.

[Your closest friendnt]

On 5/26/2022 at 1:08 PM, Starise said:

Adam was the first man. The man all other men came from. Jesus was called the last Adam. Since Jesus was Jewish does this mean Adam was Jewish? If Adam was Jewish, then where do the Gentiles come from?

Adam was the first man, we find this in Genesis.

Adam was created from God, he was not born from a woman, or he did not experience life in the womb. He was not  carried in the arms of a mother...he was never an infant and experienced the circle of growing up the way anyone else has, besides Eve who also had similar experiences with Adam...not experiencing life in the womb. 

To be a Jew is a blood line...jews were the descendants of Judah one of the twelve Sons of Jacob...

The jews were one of the twelve tribes...that made up the israelites...

We cannot have Jews if we we did not have Tamara. TAMARA was the wife of one of the sons of Judah. 

Tamara husband died without having any children.

As the custom was Judah the Patriarch gave her his other Son for Husband and he also died without having any children with Tamara...then Judah to protect his other son the youngest from having the same fate as his other two sons he refused to give Tamara his younger son for husband, but lo and behold Judah's younger son died. 

And Judah did not get married. And he had no  children and no grand children...This is it a Patriarch without any offsprings. 

The great grandfather of Judah was Abraham who was clean and unpolluted from the worship of Idols, the same with Sarah his wife..

ABRAHAM was a descendant of Noah, everyone was a descendant of Noah, there were no descendants of Cain after the flood, but there were descendants of Noah who had turned to worshiping Idols, as not every descendant from Noah remained faithful to God.

The sons of Noah had witnessed the worship of Idols and this does not sound strange, that even God had foretold to Noah that those things were in the heart of Man and they only men that were around who had witnessed those things were Noah and his children at that time. 

Abraham was from a family line who had kept themselves unpolluted from Idols, this is what are taught from scripture. 

The Lord God was in fellowship with him...

After many centuries and after Israel had establish it self as a nation and after the rain of David and Solomon the kingdom of Israel was divided in two, the south consisting of the tribe of Judah and the Lord also gave them the tribe of Benjamin...the Temple was in Jerusalem in the tribe of Benjamin. 

This was the Kingdom of Judah or the kingdom of the Jews...because it was consisting of the tribe of the Jews and ruled buy the Jews. 

The northern kingdom was call the Kingdom of Israel which was consisting from the other ten tribes...

Eventually the kingdom of Israel was totally destroyed by the Syrians and never to raised again, totally gone...

The only kingdom that was left was the kingdom of the Jews who had the Temple, and eventually learn to obey the Law and Jerusalem was the Holy city...and because we did not had a kingdom of Judah anymore, the people of God were known to be the Jews...the Jews the people from the tribe of Judah who kept the Law and the worship of the Temple....were the people of God...

So the term "Jew" became synonymous with the meaning of the people devoted to God and obedient to observing the Law and the worship in the Temple...

They did not had a Kingdom, and the reference to "Jew" it included more than being from the tribe of Judah but rather a people who were devoted to the bone to the keeping of the Law... 

This is why we have the reference Jew, or Greek (Gentile).

Jews the only people of God descendants of Abraham who kept the Law of Moses with strict devotion and the remants of the other tribes as the Galilean joint them in the annual celebrations  because they were in charge of the Temple, so to speak...

So the word "Jew" became synonymous to the remaining people of God. The keepers of the Sinai Covenant, to whom Jesus said: if you do not believe in me you will die in your sins.. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[Hopefully]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am in Christ Jesus why do I need to be in Abraham? 

I am a woman I don’t teach men. When someone posts a verse I don’t understand I usually go read the entire chapter and believe exactly what it says.