Who is Resurrected, and When?

[FreeGrace]

26 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

ALL THE DEAD who rise receive an incorruptible body.

[double click failed.  Where do you get your information?  Only believers receive a resurrection body like Jesus'.  When you say "all the dead" that would obviously include unbelievers, and we KNOW that their resurrection body will certainly die AGAIN since the LOF is also called the second death.  

If your claim were correct, no unbeliever would die again.]

IN FACT the reason the lake of fire is the second death is because ONLY GOD is in charge of the 2nd death.

[But you just claimed that "all the dead"will receive an incorruptible body.  That would mean all unbelievers cannot die again.  Your views are conflicted.]  

CAN we be SURE there will be no more DEATH except by the lake of fire once we are changed?

[What does the resurrection of believers have to do with 'no more death'?  I believe what Jesus Christ said about those He gives eternal life:  they shall NEVER perish.  John 10:28.  Your question is rather questionable.] 

YES because it is written
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,

Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

[Are you really unaware that Paul was ONLY referring to saved people in 1 Cor 15?  He wasn't referring to "all the dead".]

So WHERE would anyone 'killed' GO if there is NO MORE STING OF DEATH?  Where if there is no more victory of the GRAVE?

[Huh?  Everyone who is killed (and even just died from illness, injury, etc) go to the appropriate place:  saved go to heaven, unsaved go to Hades.  The method of death is irrelevant to where people go at death.]  

That's right, the lake of fire.  HENCE no more corruptible bodies.  We will be like the angels in heaven.

[Huh again?  All unbelievers will go to the LOF but only after appearing before the GWT judgment.  And again you are contradicting yourself here.] 

DID you know there were BAD ANGELS in heaven?  They got CAST OUT WITH SATAN.

[Sure do know that.  But what is your point in saying this?] 

Showing that ANGELIC BODIES/spiritual bodies/ heavenly bodies/celestial bodies don't have to be IMMORTAL as there are angels in darkness in chains reserved for the lake of fire,

[What is your point here?  It is obvious that fallen angels will exist forever, because the LOF was prepared for them.  Matt 25:41.]

Did you know there are no HUMANS aka dust of the earth men in heaven?

[If you are referring to physical bodies, yes, that is true.]

  That's right, just as angels.  Do you think the 'rich man' in paradise was in his flesh body?  NO, cause the BLOOD which was the life of his earthen body had ceased to pump hence no life in that body SO THE ONLY ONE LEFT would be the spiritual one.

[We call that the soul.  Yes, the rich man's soul went to Hades.]

  BUT if and/or when someone CANT discern between the carnal and the spiritual, it just doesn't compute on any level and the same thing just keeps getting repeated over and over while the things that show it to be untrue keep getting skipped over.

[No idea what point you are trying to make here.  It is clear from 1 Cor 15 that the "spiritual body" that Paul mentioned is the resurrection body, and hopefully you are aware that Jesus' resurrection body was OBVIOUSLY physical.]

  BUT HEY, if you have some verse that says
CARCASSes will be coming back to life

[I use the word to mean mortal physical body.  Sorry if that confuses you.  And you can be sure that all unbelievers will be raised to life back into their mortal physical body, which will die again when they are cast into the LOF.  Do you understand any of this?]

as opposed to what is written about them going back to the dust of the earth, I am all ears.  

The phrase "back to the dust of the earth" is a reference to our physical bodies decaying after death, which everyone understands.  

However, God is fully able (omnipotent) to regather EVERY molecule and atom of everyone's bodies at the resurrection of unbelievers.

But believers get a glorified "upgraded" body, just like the one Jesus has.

[FreeGrace]

8 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

  FreeGrace said: 

 Their human spirit is "made alive" or "born again"WHY

WHAT?

Those who have NOT been born again, have a human spirit or they would be in the grave.

[double click failed.  The terms "made alive" and "born again" ONLY APPLY to saved people, NEVER unsaved people.  It seems you remain very confused about that differentiation.  If so, no wonder your questions are so confused.  And unbelievers do NOT have a human spirit that is alive.  It is DEAD from birth. That's WHY unbelievers need to be "born again".]

   Our human/carnal/flesh spirit is what animates our bodies, no spirit no life so THAT doesn't make any sense at all.

[No such thing as a "human/carnal/flesh spirit".  God created man with a physical body, an immaterial soul and a human spirit with which to be able to worship God, as Jesus told the woman at the well in John 4:24.

When Adam rebelled, what died "on THAT (specific) day" was his human spirit.  Which is why he hid when the Lord came calling.  The death of his human spirit broke relationship with the Lord.  But he WAS able to communicate when the Lord spoke to him.  The solution to having a DEAD human spirit is to be "born again" or "made alive" again.  That is accomplished by faith in Christ.]

It is our SPIRITUAL SPIRIT that is born FROM ABOVE so that God can dwell within us.  That is what makes us a NEW CREATURE.  

It is our human or flesh spirit that is at enmity with God, that what we kill in order to let our spiritual spirit take over the desires of our flesh/human spirit. 

You are confused about "spirit".  There is no such thing as "our SPIRITUAL SPIRIT".  That's just double talk.  Believers have a human spirit and a soul.  In 1 Cor 14, Paul differentiated between the believer's spirit and soul (which he calls the "mind") in v.14 - For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind (soul) is unfruitful.  

This shows that believers have a human spirit with which to worship God.  And is separate from the soul.  And Heb 4:12 proves that they are separate:  "For the Word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any double edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow, and is a judge of thoughts and attitudes of the heart (soul).

And there is no such thing as a "human or flesh spirit".  There is a soul, that all humans possess.  But only believers have a human spirit, having been "made alive" or "born again" at the moment of saving faith.

[DeighAnn]

10 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

The phrase "back to the dust of the earth" is a reference to our physical bodies decaying after death, which everyone understands.  

However, God is fully able (omnipotent) to regather EVERY molecule and atom of everyone's bodies at the resurrection of unbelievers.

But believers get a glorified "upgraded" body, just like the one Jesus has.

THAT BEING THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT IS WRITTEN.

Show us - regathered for UNBELIEVERS
Show us - 'upgraded' anywhere
Show us - GOD DOING WHAT YOU SAY rather than


WHAT IS WRITTEN IS

And what you sow, NOT THE BODY THAT WILL BE YOU SOW,

but a bare grain,

if it may be of wheat or of some of the rest

But God gives it a body

as He has willed

and to each of the seeds

its own body


GOD being ABLE and GOD DOING are two different things.  How does one decide they should DISCARD WHAT IS WRITTEN in favor of what man concludes?
 

[Selah7]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

No, there are more events as a matter of FACT the first thing we read of WHEN CHRIST RETURNS IS the destruction of those destroying the world FROM KINGS ON DOWN TO SLAVES.  Death takes place FIRST.  


Yes, the ORDER in which things will take place remains the same but THEY AREN'T the only things that take place.  You have to give ROOM for more KNOWLEDGE in the verses.  


Yes, the dead are going to rise BUT FIRST THE DEAD HAVE TO BECOME DEAD.  

Does that CHANGE the dead rise and we are changed?  NO, it just ADDS the death of the dead before the dead rise.  Remains JUST AS TRUE, but we have to BUILD upon the foundations.  That is the miracle of Gods words.  They are true AS WRITTEN, and even when you ADD other events spoken of in the CORRECT order they STILL remain true, just not on the level you learned them.    

 

nd I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings,

Kings, the highest rank of humans

and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them,

those who faithfully serve them

and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

those they RULE over down to the lowest of men

NONE OF THEM SAVED FROM DESTRUCTION THROUGH THE GIFT OF SALVATION

 

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

What else do we read?  The tares are gathered to be burned AND THEN the rest are gathered to be with the Lord.  

DOESNT change that the dead rise first and the alive and remaining are changed, we have just added detail.  HOW can we know this comes first?  Because the DEAD don't rise twice when Christ returns so the MARKED have to have their FIRST DEATH as they HAVE NOT BEEN SAVED FROM IT.  



CHRISTIANS would be wise to make the DISTICTION between the DEAD and the LIVING.  

  Until you can find it written some other way, THIS is what should be believed. 

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


IF you believe WE FOLLOW HIM, they you HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BELIEVE

WE ARE RAISED UP IN A SPIRITUAL BODY. 




because here is what ISN'T written

it is sown a natural body, it is raised WITHOUT A BODY but will return for one.  

Isn't that what you are saying?

Bye. 

[FreeGrace]

13 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I said:

"

The phrase "back to the dust of the earth" is a reference to our physical bodies decaying after death, which everyone understands.  

However, God is fully able (omnipotent) to regather EVERY molecule and atom of everyone's bodies at the resurrection of unbelievers.

But believers get a glorified "upgraded" body, just like the one Jesus has."

THAT BEING THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT IS WRITTEN.
Show us - regathered for UNBELIEVERS
Show us - 'upgraded' anywhere
Show us - GOD DOING WHAT YOU SAY rather than
WHAT IS WRITTEN IS

[double click failed.  I've already pointed out your confusion about resurrection bodies, and that Paul ONLY referred to BELIEVERS in 1 Cor 15, yet you STILL think 1 Cor 15 refers to ALL resurrection bodies.  Until you clear that up in your mind, you will continue to be unable to comprehend any of this.]

And what you sow, NOT THE BODY THAT WILL BE YOU SOW,
but a bare grain,
if it may be of wheat or of some of the rest
But God gives it a bodyas He has willedand to each of the seedsits own body

[All of this comes from 1 Cor 15 and refers ONLY to believers.  Not ALL resurrections, as it seems you presume.]

GOD being ABLE and GOD DOING are two different things.  How does one decide they should DISCARD WHAT IS WRITTEN in favor of what man concludes?
 

Never discard wha is written.  Rather UNDERSTAND and DISCERN the difference between categories of subjects.

Why would Paul include the resurrection of unbelievers in 1 Cor 15 when that would have been totally WRONG?  They don't get immortal bodies, as you previously claimed.  If they did, the LOF couldn't be called the second death.

Remember, souls are immortal and will exist forever.  The believers will live with God forever, called eternity, and the unbeliever's soul will exist (call it living if you want) in the LOF forever, called eternal condemnation.

btw, my conclusions are straight from the Bible.  But it takes some discernment to see the differences, which you seem unable to do, even though I have explained over and over.  But you remain STUCK on your presumptions.  In spite of help.

If you can't/won't see the difference between the resurrection of believers and unbelievers, you will ALWAYS remain confused.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Yes, the dead are going to rise BUT FIRST THE DEAD HAVE TO BECOME DEAD.  

This is an example of your confusion.  

Can you explain HOW "the dead" become "dead"?  Because that's basically what you are saying.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

[double click failed.  Where do you get your information?  Only believers receive a resurrection body like Jesus'.  When you say "all the dead" that would obviously include unbelievers, and we KNOW that their resurrection body will certainly die AGAIN since the LOF is also called the second death.

Please do me a favor and put the 'double click failed' where you put your comments and don't add them to my postings please.  


I get my information from what is written.   

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Though WE MAY BE IN CORRUPTIBLE bodies, the LIVING do not descend into the corruption, LIKE THE DEAD SOULS DO.

The dead carcass of ALL souls go back to dust,

but it is about where the souls themselves go, where they begin their life in the next realm.  In heaven or hell


"But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption." Acts 13:37 KJV

"Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." Acts 13:35 KJV

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." Acts 2:31 KJV



When SOULS go to hell their spiritual BODIES see CORRUPTION

When SOULS go to heaven their spiritual bodies don't see corruption.

Who all thinks that those in hell are STILL IN THEIR EARTHEN VESSELS? 

Who all thinks that those in heaven are STILL IN THEIR EARTHEN VESSELS?

I PRAY NO ONE.  I PRAY THAT IS SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED AT LEAST


SO NONE OF THE DEAD BEING RAISED UP FROM HELL BECOME IMMORTAL/RECEIVE THEIR IMMORTALITY, BUT THEY HAVE LONG BEEN IN THEIR SPIRITUAL BODIES.  THE DEAD have been in the CORRUPTION OF THE EARTH, IN THEIR SPIRITUAL BODIES SEEING THE CORRUPTION.



while the LIVING FOLLOWED HIM TO HEAVEN, IN THEIR SPIRITUAL BODIES, RAISED IN GLORY AND RETURNING WITH HIM TO RULE AND REIGN AND WILL SEE THE DEAD RISE FROM THE CORRUPTION, AND WILL SEE THE ALIVE AND REMAINING CHANGED AND JOINED UP WITH THEM



Just shrinking down the capitols so I don't have to rewrite everything again but to be sure, not yelling




 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

[But you just claimed that "all the dead"will receive an incorruptible body.  That would mean all unbelievers cannot die again.  Your views are conflicted.]  

No, you just wont take the time to see.  

All the dead will receive an incorruptible body,  meaning MEN will not be able to kill men, but GOD can and will destroy EVEN and INCORRUPTIBE BODY in the lake of fire.  Just because one has not come to that understanding does not make it false.  Like you said, albeit at the wrong time, GOD is OMNIPOTENT.  

OBVIOUSLY, God is AWARE the first body has DIED, right?  SO, we KNOW He must be referring to the 2nd body, right?   There are 2 bodies, right?  As we have born this one we will bear the next one, right?  I don't need to give Scriptures for any of that, right?

28And fear not them which kill the body,

1ST BODY DEAD

but are not able to kill the soul:


2ND BODY

but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


You have to give it to GOD in writing things in such a way as to not be MISUNDERSTOOD, unless some 

'doctrine' has the brain going in a different direction.  THEN it becomes all unclear and confusing and needs explanations and what is written is called into question as to its truth.....I'll stop

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

[What does the resurrection of believers have to do with 'no more death'?  I believe what Jesus Christ said about those He gives eternal life:  they shall NEVER perish.  John 10:28.  Your question is rather questionable.] 

I am not talking about the resurrection of the believers, but the resurrection of the DEAD when Christ returns.  

YOU KNOW, those who DIDN'T FOLLOW HIM because they didn't know THE WAY.

Those who didn't FOLLOW HIM because they didn't know THE RESURRECTION.  

Those who didn't FOLLOW HIM because they were in bondage to death.  

Those who didn't follow Him because they were never SAVED FROM DESTRUCTION.

I'll stop

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

[Are you really unaware that Paul was ONLY referring to saved people in 1 Cor 15?  He wasn't referring to "all the dead".]

Are you really unaware that is just another conclusion of man and I don't let mans doctrines dictate how Gods word is read?

I believe in the leading of the Holy Spirit and I don't allow the doctrines of man get in the way.  SO you are going to have to TRY to make that dictate what you believe without me.  

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

[Huh?  Everyone who is killed (and even just died from illness, injury, etc) go to the appropriate place:  saved go to heaven, unsaved go to Hades.  The method of death is irrelevant to where people go at death.] 

UNTIL the KINGDOMS of this world BECOME HIS.  

We have to move with the story line.  We don't get to just randomly decide this goes here and that goes there. Gods word has to tell us the where's when's and who's etc.

 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

[Sure do know that.  But what is your point in saying this?] 

My point is you do not have to be SAVED to be in a spiritual body...."Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." Matthew 22:29 KJV



 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

[I use the word to mean mortal physical body.  Sorry if that confuses you.  And you can be sure that all unbelievers will be raised to life back into their mortal physical body, which will die again when they are cast into the LOF.  Do you understand any of this?]

It doesn't confuse me.  The confusion comes when one can not accept that MORTAL also comes in the spiritual body, which is also physical body. 

Again, you IMPLY I don't believe the spiritual body is physical.  WHY IS THAT?  Who does that again and again KNOWING because they have been told over and over again?   Someone who has no other recourse I would assume.  Maybe that is why I don't do those things and when I do, which would be by mistake, I apologize.  



 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

[We call that the soul.  Yes, the rich man's soul went to Hades.]

Hopefully you grasp that HE WAS IN A SPIRITUAL BODY and not the body that had ALREADY suffered the first death and it will be that SPIRITUAL body that is raised up when Christ returns.  
 

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

[I use the word to mean mortal physical body.  Sorry if that confuses you.  And you can be sure that all unbelievers will be raised to life back into their mortal physical body, which will die again when they are cast into the LOF.  Do you understand any of this?]

Yes, the spiritual one.  The one of the realm of the KINGDOM of Heaven come to earth.  The one that can only die in the LOF.