Who is Resurrected, and When?

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Destroyed Them All"

LUKE 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

When Christ returns, all FLESH AND BLOOD must be destroyed because we are entering into ANOTHER REALM.  The presently UNSEEN spiritual realm in which NO FLESH AND BLOOD BODIES CAN EXIST.  

Flesh and blood bodies don't LIVE in the HEAVENLY REALM.  They don't live for 1000 years.  

Why do you think there is a resurrection OF THE DEAD??  

How many bodies do we have?  2

DO WE KNOW THE DEAD are resurrected when Christ returns?  Yes

Do WE go right to the GWTJ when Christ returns?  NO

Does Satan get bound for 1000 years when Christ returns?  YES

Is Satan released at the end of 1000 years?  YES

Is a day as a 1000 years?  YES

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 

13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The TIME OF THE DEAD is when they DO THEIR WORKS SO WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPENED, THEY MIGHT RECEIVE THEIR IMMORTALITY.  THEIR 'RESURRECTION' WAS OF 'THE JUST'.

CHRIST RETURNS AND 

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27And last of all the woman died also.

28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


So the FIRE comes to burn up the elements and cleanse the earth but many of the DEAD are raised up incorruptible but REMAIN MORTAL till the dead, 1000 years later stand in judgment.  
 

Christ can't come to rule with a rod of Iron if God is coming to put them in the lake of fire.  How could any of THE DEAD get their names in the book of life BASED ON THEIR WORKS, if they are given no time to do any works?  

THESE AREN'T JUST WORDS.  They are LIFE.  

These are the CONFLICTS that need to be addressed and put into proper place.  EVERY thing must be accounted for.  If you CANT then it is that CANT that tells you there has been a step taken off the narrow path.  

I understand you don't see past Jesus coming in fire 'the end'.  To PROVE your belief TAKE all these verses that we are placing during the MILLENNIUM and show us IN ORDER how they fit where they fit BECAUSE WE CAN'T, IT IS YOUR BELIEF that needs to be explained with ALL the facts, not just what you believe 'the end' means.  We got 'the end'.  We know it ends.  So SHOW the SCRIPTURES used somewhere else.  Not in belief but in the TRUTH in GODS WORDS not yours.  

[DeighAnn]

Greek order of words

1 Cor 15:13
If however a resurrection of dead not there is neither Christ has been raised

14 if then Christ not has been raised void then also the preaching of us void also the faith of you

15 We are found then also false witnesses of God because we have witnessed concerning God that He raised up Christ, whom NOT He has raised if then dead NOT are raised

16 If for dead not are raised, NEITHER Christ has been raised

(Neither, nor, not even -- neither (indeed), never, no (more, nor, not), nor (yet), (also, even, then) not (even, so much as), + nothing, so much as.)

17 if then Christ not has been raised futile the faith of you is, still you are in the sins of you

18 Then also those having fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

the SAVED NEVER DIE, NEVER PERISH, THEY FOLLOW HIM, TO BE WHERE HE IS WITH THE GOD OF THE LIVING AND NOT THE DEAD

19 If in the life this in Christ having hope we are only more to be pitied than all men we are

20 Now however Christ has been raised out from dead, firstfruit of those having fallen asleep

21 Since for by a man death, also by a man resurrection of dead

22 For as indeed in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive

JUST AS ALL DON'T DIE AT THE SAME TIME,
ALL ARE NOT MADE ALIVE AT THE SAME TIME,

they just will ALL be made alive. 

CAN WE BE SURE?  ARE WE EVER TOLD IT IS NOT ALL AT THE SAME TIME?

23 Each however in the own order: firstfruit Christ, then those of Christ at the coming of Him

WHO ARE CHRISTS AT HIS COMING? 

THOSE WHO HAVE ENDURED TO THE END AND OVERCOME AND HAVE NOT TAKEN THE MARK OF THE BEAST.  


THE DEAD WHO WILL BE RAISED UP HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN JUDGED YET. 
THEY WON'T BE JUDGED TILL THE END OF THE LORDS DAY AT THE GWTJ, SO WE CAN'T KNOW IF THEY ARE CHRISTS OR NOT TILL THEN.  NOT TO MENTION THOSE WHO ARE RAISED FROM THE CORRUPTION REMAIN MORTAL
 

24 then the end when He shall hand over the kingdom to the God and Father when He shall have annulled all dominion and all authority and power

25 It behooves for Him to reign until that He shall have put all the enemies under the feet of Him

26 The last enemy to be abolished is death

27  All things for He has put in subjection, under the feet of Him when however it may be said that all things have been put in subjection, evident that is excepted the {One} having put in subjection

28 When now shall have been put in subjection to Him all things then also Himself the Son will be put in subjection to the {One} having put in subjection to Him all things so that may be God all in all

 5293. hupotassó 
Strong's Concordance
hupotassó: to place or rank under, to subject, mid. to obey
Original Word: ὑποτάσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hupotassó
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-ot-as'-so)
Definition: to place or rank under, to subject, mid. to obey
Usage: I place under, subject to; mid, pass: I submit, put myself into subjection.
HELPS Word-studies
5293 hypotássō (from 5259 /hypó, "under" and 5021 /tássō, "arrange") – properly, "under God's arrangement," i.e. submitting to the Lord (His plan).

to subject, put in subjection
From hupo and tasso; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey -- be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Let's think about this for just a sec.  Seems you think v.30 means that when Jesus comes ALL unbelievers will be destroyed.

Either you take the mark of the beast and are destroyed

or 

you endure to the end, overcome by NOT having taken the mark of the beast


The time had to be shortened or EVEN GODS ELECT would have been deceived


HE deceives the whole world


that leaves all 'unbelievers' destroyed.  THEY have to be destroyed because 

HEAVEN IS COMING TO EARTH.  The UNSEEN is becoming the seen and flesh and BLOOD can not inherit that kingdom


The DEAD have to be destroyed because the DEAD have to die their first death and they have to be RAISED FROM THE CORRUPTION of the earth to make sure they remain MORTAL.  

 

[Keras]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

The position you're taking is that of Replacement Theology. You are ASSUMING that "Christian peoples" are so much better than the ORIGINAL children of Israel were and are, that they've become the NEW "House of Israel!"

Simple fact is; we Christians ARE the Israelites of God. Those people who falsely claim to be Israel, but who reject Jesus and even God, in over 50% 0f the population, are not 'circumcised of the heart', Romans 2:29

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:50-55 is a prophecy for after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7, is undeniable; ONLY in the new heavens and earth, in Eternity, will Death be no more. 

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

If Paul didn't mean ALL believers in 1 Cor 15:23 he would have made that clear, such as "some of those" or some other wording to make clear not every believer.

But he didn't do that.  So the phrase "those who belong to Him" obviously refers to ALL believers.  Why wouldn't it?

Isn't it right to use definitive scripture to clarify any contentious and unclear scripture?   In this case Paul says Christians will be raised when Jesus Returns. He doesn't say which ones, or why they will be.  We get that information from Revelation 20:4-6 - They will be the martyrs killed during the 42 month time of world Satanic control. 

Any ideas of a general Christian resurrection, when Jesus Returns, is in conflict with the specific details of Rev 20 and also it does not fit with the many descriptions of the Millennium age; of continuing mortal existence.

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

IT IS OF THE DEAD.

The resurrection when Christ returns IS OF THE DEAD. 


GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING AND NOT THE DEAD SO ANYONE WHO WAS RAISED UP TO HEAVEN IS LIVING.  NOT DEAD


Put THAT FACT into the words of GOD and watch them flow.  Watch ALL CONFLICT DISAPPEAR.  

Do you really believe THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN LIVING WITH GOD ARE RENDERED DEAD TO RESURRECT AGAIN?   THEY HAVE ALREADY RISEN. 

IF THE LIVING RETURNING WITH CHRIST 'BECOME' A PART OF THE DEAD AT THAT TIME THEN 

WHO KILLS THEM?  


Do you know who IS NEVER WRITTEN OF AS RESURRECTING when Christ returns?  

Those who have NEVER DIED.  

Those who are RETURNING WITH HIM

Those who have been RAISED UP ALREADY

Those who KNEW THE LIFE

Those who KNEW THE WAY

Those who KNEW THE RESURRECTION

Those who FOLLOWED HIM TO BE WHERE HE IS

Those who WERE RAISED IN THEIR SPIRITUAL BODY

Those who WERE RAISED IN GLORY ALREADY

Those who JESUS PAID THE RANSOM FOR

Those who received the gift of Salvation WHICH KEEPS US FROM DEATH, THE GRAVE, HELL.

FROM BEING THE DEAD


Have you ever given thought to those who 'didn't' rise, who didn't hear His voice when Christ lead the captivity to heaven when the graves opened?  Those who died either under the law or not but for whatever reason were left there? Those who are no doubt ALREADY at home with their 'god'?  

Since that day we have those who have died and been buried because they never heard the words of God.  Many of the dead are 'just' souls, JUST NOT SAVED.  Many of the souls are UNJUST, but maybe they are unjust because THEY NEVER DID HEAR THE WORDS OF GOD. 

Just saying there are A LOT OF DEAD SOULS 'DEAD' not through anything they did or didn't do ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE of GOD. 

I think at the VERY LEAST you should TRY to read the words of God with the LIVING RETURNING to rule and reign

AND THE DEAD RISING to HEAR AND LEARN GODS TRUTH AND WILL BE RULED AND REIGNED OVER BY THE LIVING

and see where it leads.  IF IT DOESN'T WORK THE WORDS OF GOD WILL TELL YOU BY WAY OF CONFLICT THAT CAN NOT BE RESOLVED

just like they are telling you NOW WITH conflict that cannot be resolved BY MAKING THE LIVING THE DEAD. 



The DEAD are not the LIVING    








 

You suggest that a resurrection has taken place already?

There will be one future resurrection of all that have lived, this takes place at the second coming on the last day, that will be the end of this physical world

Edited January 29, 2023 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

35 minutes ago, Keras said:

1 Corinthians 15:50-55 is a prophecy for after the Millennium.

Your claim is "False"

The event of the resurrection seen in 1 Corinthians Chapter 15 takes place at the Lord's return, "Then Cometh The End" when the last enemy death is swallowed up in victory

You falsely believe and teach Jesus returns to start a Millennium on this earth, scripture teaches Jesus returns "Then Cometh The End"

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

 

 

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Edited January 29, 2023 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Oh, excuse me.  You really do misunderstand.  The Bible uses "fire" to refer to judgment.  See 1 Cor 3.  When King Jesus returns and sets up His earthly kingdom, you can be sure the Bema (Judgment Seat of Christ) will be a judgment of believers.

Seems you are having difficulty discerning what is literal and what is a figure of speech.

Let's think about this for just a sec.  Seems you think v.30 means that when Jesus comes ALL unbelievers will be destroyed.  

Listen to some translations of v.30

New International Version
“It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.
New Living Translation
Yes, it will be ‘business as usual’ right up to the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
English Standard Version
so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
Berean Standard Bible
It will be just like that on the day the Son of Man is revealed.
Berean Literal Bible
It will be according to these in that day the Son of Man is revealed.
King James Bible
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
New King James Version
Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

This is from an on-line commentary:

 

17:30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed" This context asserts several things about the Second Coming:

1. that it will be visible and public (cf. Luke 17:23,24)
2. that there will be normal social life (cf. Luke 17:27)
3. that it will be sudden
4. that it will be unexpected

This same truth is described in Matt. 16:27; 24:29-44; 1 Cor. 1:7; 1 Thess. 4:12-18; 2 Thess. 1:7; 1 Pet. 1:7; and Rev. 11:15-19; 19:1-21.

Again, Rev 20 is to clearly literal that it is absurd to deny the reality of it.

Just as the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by literal fire and brimstone, same will apply when Jesus is revealed, simple and very easy to understand 

You can deny literal fire all you want, it's not changing the words of God's truth before your eyes

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

[DeighAnn]

7 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

You suggest that a resurrection has taken place already?

Not me, the words of God.  

Jesus speaking in the temple tells of it
16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

 

The graves were opened
50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,


Many bodies were even seen

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

When He ascended He led the captivity captive
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Firstfruits of them that slept 
17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23But every man in his own order....

 

 

The dead heard His voice and followed Him

24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Who WAS DEAD, being held in bondage to death, captive of the grave? 

Those who had died under the law. 

Where was Christ going?  Into the grave for 3 days.  

Where was He going afterwards?  Heaven

Which 'other' captives would He have led, if not them that slept?

 

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Either you take the mark of the beast and are destroyed
or 
you endure to the end, overcome by NOT having taken the mark of the beast
The time had to be shortened or EVEN GODS ELECT would have been deceived

[None of this supports your theory.  And ignores very clear Scripture.]

HE deceives the whole world

[Yes, and has been doing so since the first 2 humans.]

that leaves all 'unbelievers' destroyed.  THEY have to be destroyed because 

HEAVEN IS COMING TO EARTH.  The UNSEEN is becoming the seen and flesh and BLOOD can not inherit that kingdom

[Well then, you have a problem with Scripture.  Jesus comes back at the Second Advent and resurrects ALL the saved.  1 Cor 15:23 is clear about that.  Yes, Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron.  Why would you think saved mortals would need to be "ruled with a rod of iron"?  That doesn't make sense.  It does make sense for unbelievers, and by doing the "math" of Rev 6:8 and 9:15, the present population of 8 B would be reduced to about 4 B.  Today, unbelievers FAR outnumber believers, so those "who are alive and remain" and are "changed" when the Lord comes won't be much of a number at all.  So what do you do with 4 B mortal unbelievers?  They are NOT all wiped out as you opine.  You are dishonoring the King and His rule by your opinion.]

The DEAD have to be destroyed because the DEAD have to die their first death and they have to be RAISED FROM THE CORRUPTION of the earth to make sure they remain MORTAL.

[Easily explained.  There will be 4 B people to enter the Millennium.  They, being mortal, will re-populate the earth during the 1,000 years.  It is at the end of the MK that all the living unbelievers will be destroyed by fire from heaven.  Rev 20:9 says so clearly.  So, there's your "first death" of unbelievers that lived through the MK.  No problem.]  

 

[FreeGrace]

52 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Just as the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by literal fire and brimstone, same will apply when Jesus is revealed, simple and very easy to understand

[But you can't prove your theory.  Why not try to refute the commentary I provided?  It makes perfect sense.  If you are correct, it should be easy.] 

You can deny literal fire all you want, it's not changing the words of God's truth before your eyes

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Sure.  Go ahead and quote it over and over.  Doesn't change a thing.  I'll be looking for your attempted refutation of the commentary I provided.