Daniel 12:7, is that time now ?

[Jinto]

"It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." 

I think the angel here is referring to how we humans as a whole will finally make an informed choice of taking God's side or rejecting Him, similarly to the Israelite in Exodus 32.

Jesus's return and judgement day isn't after such or such sign happened but after everyone made up their mind about what they do with Jesus.

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Jinto said:

"It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." 

I think the angel here is referring to how we humans as a whole will finally make an informed choice of taking God's side or rejecting Him, similarly to the Israelite in Exodus 32.

Jesus's return and judgement day isn't after such or such sign happened but after everyone made up their mind about what they do with Jesus.

No sir, this is about Israel only after the Rapture, during the 70th week.

The 1260 (Time, time & half [time], the 1290 and 1335 are all tied into ONE EVENT(Second Coming) that describes what they all are. The Angel asks the Man in Linen (Jesus preincarnate) in Daniel 12:6 HOW LONG until all these WONDERS END (The things Daniel saw in Dan. 11:36-45 are THESE WONDERS) and he answers in verse 7 by swearing that from the time the holy peoples (Israel) are conquered until ALL THESE WONDERS (Dan. 11:36-45) END, there will be 1260 days. Well, what ends these wonders?

The second Coming of Jesus of course, he breaks the stronghold of the Anti-Christ via killing him by the presence of his coming. Then he throws Satan in the bottomless pit for 1000 years. So, why do people not get that the 1290, and 1335 have the EXACT SAMY SYMMETRY? I do not know, but in verse 8 Daniel asks the Man in Linen the exact same question the Angel asked in verse 6. 

Dan. 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

So, Daniel asks the exact same question, what will be the end of {Daniel 11:35-45} these things? And thus the answer has to be the exact same thing, the Second Coming of Jesus ends the 1260, the 1290 and 1335, thus each number is AN EVENT, with that many days until the Second Coming ends all of the wonders Daniel had been shown in Daniel 11:36-45, which is the Anti-Christ. Thus the 1260 is Israel getting conquered 1260 days before Jesus returns, the 1290 is AN EVENT that happens 1290 days before the 2nd Coming, and the 1335 is AN EVENT that happens 1335 dats before the 2nd Coming. Now, all one has to do is figure out what those events are. And I did that long ago. Thus the 1335 comes first, it is further away from the 2nd Coming etc. etc.

The 1335 = The Two-witnesses showing up 1335 days before the 2nd Coming to turn Israel back unto God as we can  see in Malachi 4:5-6 and in Zechariah 13:8-9 and Zech. 14:1-2.

The 1290 =  The False Prophet (a Jewish High Priest) who stops the 3-5 million Jews who REPENT from openly worshiping Jesus in the Temple of God, he then places an IMAGE (Rev. 13:11-15 says so) in the Temple (AoD).

The 1260 = the Anti-Christ conquering Israel/Jerusalem, this happens 30 days after the 1290 event, thus the Jews will have 30 dats to flee Judea unto the Jordanian Mountains/Petra/Bozrah. 

The ABOVE is why the Two-witnesses DIE BEFORE the Beast DIES, even though both have 1260 day Ordained Offices so to speak on this earth. The Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe, the Beast dies at the 7th Vial. 

[AdHoc]

17 hours ago, Jinto said:

"It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." 

I think the angel here is referring to how we humans as a whole will finally make an informed choice of taking God's side or rejecting Him, similarly to the Israelite in Exodus 32.

Jesus's return and judgement day isn't after such or such sign happened but after everyone made up their mind about what they do with Jesus.

Hi Jinto - and welcome. I hope you have a profitable time on this Forum.

Of the three numbers given at the end of Daniel, only one is explained by the rest of scripture. So, while we are allowed to speculate, we cannot be dogmatic. Added to this, the Book of Daniel was to be locked up until the end. Finally, the prophecies of the second half of Daniel are writen to "Daniel's People". They can not and do not pertain to the Church.

I agree with you that our Lord's judgment is not after some sign. The decision on Jesus is based on the gospel, not a sign. A sign is also something that confirms God's Words. But the Church is a People who must live by faith. We should never seek for a sign.

So let's speculate.

(a)  11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days (Da 12:11)

The Beast will be the consummate politician. His greatest achievement will be to negotiate a third Jewish Temple alongside the Al Aqsa. Once the Temple is in place, Israel can keep the Law again. And this is the covenant that the Beast "strengthens" (lit. Heb.) - the Covenant of Law. But Daniel says that in the middle of the week the Beast will break this arrangement and set up worship of himself. The time when God's wrath burns against men for worshiping the Beast is 1260 days. And Matthew 24 says that this Tribulation will be set off by the Abomination of Desolation. Here's the Maths;
Abomination of Desolation 1260 days
But to set the landscape for the Abomination of Desolation, Beast needs to cancel the daily oblation. This he does a month, or 30 days earlier. So from the cancellation of the Covenant (and the daily oblations) to the end of the Tribulation would be 1290 days.

(b)  12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days (Da 12:12–13).

Here, unlike the verse 11 above, there is a double blessing attached. (i) Blessing upon he would is present at an event, and (ii) this event is connected with Daniel standing in his lot. And so it is. From the Abomination of Desolation to the end of the Tribulation is 1260 days and this event is 75 days later than Christ's return (1335 minus 1260). Matthew 24:31 predicts Christ bursting out the clouds.This is not the rapture for there we are caught away to Him. Added to this, this coming is seen as lightning, and those that see Him are the ones who pierced Him - the Jews. Finally, only the Jews were scattered to the four winds, so the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 is the same as Ezekiel 37 - the resurrection and gathering of scattered Israel.

The prophecy is to Daniel's People and ends in blessing for some. But there are reasons why this could not end in blessing for all Israelites. Daniel 12:1-3 says; 

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever

There are two reasons why a Jew who is resurrected and returned to his Land might be less than happy.
(1) He was not circumcised. If a seed of Abraham was not circumcised he was to be "cut off from his people". That is, he may have no part, nor portion of the Land. "Cut off" is very strong and  we have to admit that it most likely means that the uncircumcised is driven out of the Land of Canaan, or he becomes a slave to his own people.

(2) He was judged by Christ to be evil. Let me put forward king Solomon. Here is a man endowed with all that a man could want. God was with him. He was wise beyond imagination. He was wealthy beyond measure. He had peace his whole life. A visiting Queen said that even the wildest stories of him were only half the truth. He had it all - and then he broke nearly every Law that God had given. He had 700 wives and 300 concubines. He married foreign women and imported their gods. He took Israel back to Egypt. He absolutely cared NOTHING for God's things. What do you think? Will he be "blessed" when he is resurrected.

75 days is enough time to judge Israel. And some will be blessed with God's and the Law's blessings, and some NOT.

What do you think?

[WilliamL]

8 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I agree with you that our Lord's judgment is not after some sign.

It is after some sign:

Matt. 24:30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

8 hours ago, AdHoc said:

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days (Da 12:11)

This is a mistranslation, albeit a common one. (Translators parroting translators.) Here is the correct meaning:
 

Daniel 12:11 And from the time the daily/continual service has been caused to be taken away and/even to the placing of an abomination of desolation: 1290 days. Blessed/happy is the one who earnestly waits, and comes/attains to 1335 days.

Fully explained here:

29. The 1290 and 1335 Days of Daniel 12:11-12

Presents a more literal and accurate translation of Daniel 12:11-12, and explains what this prophecy reveals about the sequence of End Time events.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1440-the-1290-and-1335-days-of-daniel-1211-12/

 

Key excerpt from the above:

The 1290 Days

Keeping these things in mind, letʼs go now to the 1290 days of the End Times, which equal 3.53 solar years. We read in Dan. 11:41 that early on, the King of the North “shall enter the Glorious Land, and many shall be enfeebled/overthrown…” Following this, “he shall stretch out his hand against lands, and the land of Egypt shall not escape…also the Libyans and Cushites…” 11:42-43

An unspecified number of months or years later,

Dan. 11:44 …news from the north and the east shall trouble him; therefore he shall go out with great fury… 45 And he shall plant the tents of his pavilion…at the glorious holy mountain… 12:1 And in that time Michael shall stand up [cf. Rev. 12:7]…and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was…

– which is the same wording Jesus used in Matthew 24:21 to describe the Great Tribulation.

So to sum it all up: if the Latter Day King of the North “takes away” Daniel 12:11ʼs “daily services” when he first “enters the Glorious Holy Land,” through subverting its political and/or religious leaders – “many shall be enfeebled/overthrown” (Dan. 11:41) – then the 1290 days would begin at that point, and conclude with the Abomination of Desolation some 3½ years later. The subjection of “lands” – Egypt and Islamic North Africa – could easily take that long, prior to the final crisis. Just as Antiochus was successful in first subverting many of the priests and people, and subsequently succeeded in his original invasion of Egypt, a number of years before he committed his utter defilement and desolation of the Temple in 168 B.C.

This sequence seems to me to be the most likely fulfillment of Daniel 12:11. Whether or not it is how things will play out remains to be seen. So this is something to watch out for: the acts of the King of the North when he (or his men) first enter Jerusalem. Those acts should reveal whether or not this understanding of the 1290 days is valid.

 

[AdHoc]

17 hours ago, WilliamL said:

It is after some sign:

Matt. 24:30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

This is a mistranslation, albeit a common one. (Translators parroting translators.) Here is the correct meaning:
 

Daniel 12:11 And from the time the daily/continual service has been caused to be taken away and/even to the placing of an abomination of desolation: 1290 days. Blessed/happy is the one who earnestly waits, and comes/attains to 1335 days.

Fully explained here:

29. The 1290 and 1335 Days of Daniel 12:11-12

Presents a more literal and accurate translation of Daniel 12:11-12, and explains what this prophecy reveals about the sequence of End Time events.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1440-the-1290-and-1335-days-of-daniel-1211-12/

 

Key excerpt from the above:

The 1290 Days

Keeping these things in mind, letʼs go now to the 1290 days of the End Times, which equal 3.53 solar years. We read in Dan. 11:41 that early on, the King of the North “shall enter the Glorious Land, and many shall be enfeebled/overthrown…” Following this, “he shall stretch out his hand against lands, and the land of Egypt shall not escape…also the Libyans and Cushites…” 11:42-43

An unspecified number of months or years later,

Dan. 11:44 …news from the north and the east shall trouble him; therefore he shall go out with great fury… 45 And he shall plant the tents of his pavilion…at the glorious holy mountain… 12:1 And in that time Michael shall stand up [cf. Rev. 12:7]…and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was…

– which is the same wording Jesus used in Matthew 24:21 to describe the Great Tribulation.

So to sum it all up: if the Latter Day King of the North “takes away” Daniel 12:11ʼs “daily services” when he first “enters the Glorious Holy Land,” through subverting its political and/or religious leaders – “many shall be enfeebled/overthrown” (Dan. 11:41) – then the 1290 days would begin at that point, and conclude with the Abomination of Desolation some 3½ years later. The subjection of “lands” – Egypt and Islamic North Africa – could easily take that long, prior to the final crisis. Just as Antiochus was successful in first subverting many of the priests and people, and subsequently succeeded in his original invasion of Egypt, a number of years before he committed his utter defilement and desolation of the Temple in 168 B.C.

This sequence seems to me to be the most likely fulfillment of Daniel 12:11. Whether or not it is how things will play out remains to be seen. So this is something to watch out for: the acts of the King of the North when he (or his men) first enter Jerusalem. Those acts should reveal whether or not this understanding of the 1290 days is valid.

 

Most interesting. I'm going to spend some more time with it. Thanks.

[Charlie744]

On 6/26/2022 at 1:07 PM, Jinto said:

"It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." 

I think the angel here is referring to how we humans as a whole will finally make an informed choice of taking God's side or rejecting Him, similarly to the Israelite in Exodus 32.

Jesus's return and judgement day isn't after such or such sign happened but after everyone made up their mind about what they do with Jesus.

@Jinto this is a terrific question and based on the responses it appears the answer is / will be found at the end of times. If I read them correctly, AND almost all of today's accepted interpretations regarding this particular time element, it has been interpreted as 3.5 DAYS or YEARS.

Before I ask my question I would like you to understand I can not speak at all to Revelation, however, I can speak somewhat about Daniel. And this is why I am responding. Unless you tell me otherwise, the time element of the "time, times, and 1/2 time" is the one and same found in Daniel 7:25 (and you will note I have included vv. 23 -25 below with certain verses hi-lited and bold).  If Daniel 7:25 IS THE SOURCE for this time element, then it must not conflict or contradict with the meaning  within 7:25.

So, if it is a completely different "time element" and does not refer to 7:25, then just please let me know the source for it.

If it has its source in  Daniel, then these 3 verses will / should determine the meaning of the "time element" of "time, times, and 1/2 time". And in order to interpret the true meaning it is necessary to identify those verses below that are hi-lited and made bold.

Therefore, in your opinion, who are:

1) the 4th beast of Daniel's chapter 2 metal man image referenced in 7:23,

2) the  "other one" (little horn), referenced in 7:24,

3) who - speaks pompous words, attempts to change "times and laws", persecute the saints, and where these same saints will be under their (his) power for a period of "time, times, and 1/2 time".

I hope you might agree that if one fails to identify these 3 actors there is no possibility of having the true interpretation.  Once again, it your "time, times and 1/2 time" is NOT connected to Daniel then you would not need to address any of these questions. From my study of Daniel (and not Revelation), the answers to these 3 questions not only address Daniel's interpretation, but they SHOULD carry forward to Revelation.

Thanks, Charlie

 

Daniel 7:23“Thus he said:

‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.

24The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.

25He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[j] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.