How do we define born again of the spirit

[JohnR7]

On 7/23/2022 at 10:56 AM, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

it hit me like a bolt of lightning,

When I got saved it was as if the roof of the building had been blown off. Later on I found out that there was a portal open to Heaven so my family, friends and loved ones in Heaven could see that I was saved and they rejoiced. 

[Sower]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:07 PM, Waggles said:

A person must repent and submit to the full gospel and be baptized in water confessing their faith for the forgiveness of their sins AND also be baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues [praying in the Holy Spirit].

"AND also be baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues [praying in the Holy Spirit]."

This is what my bible says;
"Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

Based upon your definition/understanding of what a person must do to be saved (born of the spirit), my entire family, kids, spouses, grand kids, members of my church, and most Christians I know, would be lost.
Are you confident, knowing what you are saying, Waggles, in your understanding of scripture to make such a bold statement?
I do not intend to stray from the OP with a debate.

[Mike Mclees]

Sower mentioned speaking in Toungs. There are certain Pentecostal denominations that that teach that speaking in toungs  is the evidence you have recieved the Holy Spirit. I was taught this but do you believe the is a true teaching?  

[missmuffet]

New birth, being born again, is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the person who believes (2 Corinthians 5:17; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-4, 18). John 1:12, 13 indicates that being "born again" also carries the idea of "becoming children of God" through trust in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

Only those who are born again have their sins forgiven and have a relationship with God.

[Waggles]

19 hours ago, Sower said:

Are you confident, knowing what you are saying, Waggles, in your understanding of scripture to make such a bold statement?
I do not intend to stray from the OP with a debate.

YES because this is scripture and the birth of the Christianity is Pentecostal.

Pentecostal Christians of today enjoy the same gospel as the first church - repentance from dead works; water baptism by full immersion with a confession of faith for the forgiveness of past sins; and baptism in the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues. Same today as it was in the beginning.

Acts 11:13  and he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house, and saying, Send to Joppa, and fetch Simon, whose surname is Peter; 
11:14  who shall speak unto thee words, whereby THOU shalt be saved, and all thy house. 
11:15  And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, even as on us at the beginning. 
11:16  And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John indeed baptized with water; but YE shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:45  And they of the circumcision that believed were amazed, who came with Peter, because that on the nations also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit. 
10:46  For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 

Also in the operation of the voice gifts in our church meetings [done in full accordance with 1Corinthians 14] tongues followed by interpretation, and also up to three gifts of prophecy - God himself explains much about the spiritual language [tongues] that is given when a convert receives His Spirit and the purpose of this powerful prayer language that avails much.

1Cor 14:2  For who speaketh in a tongue speaketh not to men, but to God; for no one heareth; but in spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Jesus himself said that signs would follow believers and that they would speak in tongues.

[Waggles]

8 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

Sower mentioned speaking in tongues. There are certain Pentecostal denominations that that teach that speaking in tongues  is the evidence you have received the Holy Spirit. I was taught this but do you believe the is a true teaching?  

Yes it is true in scripture and in real evidence by those who believe and are converted.

"The truth shall set you free" is the testimony of Pentecostal Christians who are able to give witness to the dramatic changes in their lives and circumstances from when they received the Holy Spirit and spoke forth in tongues.

For myself that very Sunday afternoon when I was praying to receive the Holy Spirit I burst out in tongues and I received a mighty revelation about Jesus being my God and Saviour and that the word of God that I had believed is truth.

Also instantly without any withdrawal pangs I was miraculously healed from decades of cigarette and marijuana addiction, along with being set free from my intravenous use of amphetamines [speed]. God healed my kidneys from their bleeding and went on to heal my smoker's lungs. When I understood that continuing to drink alcohol was a stumbling block I let go of this and Jesus healed me from any desire to drink any alcohol.

To pray in tongues is to pray in the Holy Spirit and to yield unto God. Our carnal minds are set aside and the Spirit of God prays with our human spirit directly to God, to the throne of grace, without hindrance or limitations of our limited thoughts and honesty. When I pray in tongues the Spirit prays the whole truth about my walk, my 'hidden' sins, my circumstances and needs. Nothing is not revealed to God.

And when I finally do get around to confessing my wrongdoings, my shortcomings that I have become lazy about, I pray in the power of the Holy Spirit and these issues are miraculously cleansed from me and I am 'recalibrated' or reset back to being diligent in my walk with God.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Waggles

[Sower]

39 minutes ago, Waggles said:

20 hours ago, Sower said:

Are you confident, knowing what you are saying, Waggles, in your understanding of scripture to make such a bold statement?
I do not intend to stray from the OP with a debate.

YES because this is scripture and the birth of the Christianity is Pentecostal.

 

So then, please answer yes or no, Waggles, based on your beliefs,
is it possible for me to be a born again Christian who has never spoke in tongues?....
It is a very simple yes or no question. Thanks for your reply.
 

[debrakay]

This is wonderful! I am currently doing a study on the Holy Spirit. I can only tell my story.

I was raised in Christian churches. Baptized when I was 12. Walked away as a teenager. Came back and said the sinners prayer from my heart in 1975. Still sinned. Was baptized in the river in 1981 and filled with the Holy Spirit. I knew this because for the next year I cried through every church service (3 times a week) because the Lord was speaking directly to me through the pastor’s teachings, the praise and worship, and scripture. The Holy Spirit was moving in me, teaching me, and revealing everything he could to me. I was like a sponge! Fast forward 41 years I am still learning, still growing, still walking with him but still have to repent daily. Not the sin level I was once at but my mouth still gets me in hot water and a few other things. Hey! I’m a way better person than I once was! 

I do have a prayer language that came to me about 30 years ago but he and I only share it when I pray. Though I have rebuked the devil a couple of times using it. I think all who are filled with the Spirit of God have a prayer language (other tongues) but our human minds get in the way. There are many gifts he gives but many times we think we’re not worthy to have them or use them.

It’s so amazing when you come to the full realization that it is truly a spiritual relationship with him and that he is right with you and in you in spirit. He breathes into us and there he is in our earthly vessel. 

It’s not about which church or which denomination we belong to. It’s not about how good we are or how much we do or what we know or don’t know. It’s a one on one spiritual relationship with God who is Father, Son and Spirit. We can say we’re Christians but unless we are Christ Followers who are born of the Spirit we are not. 

“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Most that have been walking with him for decades can attest we seek him daily and are still learning but our spiritual hearing is much improved.

It’s a beautiful walk!

[Waggles]

9 hours ago, Sower said:

So then, please answer yes or no, Waggles, based on your beliefs,
is it possible for me to be a born again Christian who has never spoke in tongues?....
It is a very simple yes or no question. Thanks for your reply.
 

What does scripture, the word of God, teach us all ??

John 3:5  Jesus answered, Amen, Amen, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 
6  What is born of the flesh is flesh; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 
7  Marvel not that I said to thee, Ye must be born from above. 
Joh 3:8  The Spirit breatheth where he willeth, and thou hearest his voice, but knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one born of the Spirit.

Mark 16:15 And he [Jesus] said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
16 Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that have believed: in my name shall they cast out demons, speak with tongues;

Acts 2:4  And all were filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10:44  While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all that heard the word. 
45  And they of the circumcision that believed were amazed, who came with Peter, because that on the nations also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit. 
46  For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 
47  Can anyone forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?

Acts 19:1  And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper regions came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples: 
2  and he said unto them, Whether ye received the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether there is a Holy Spirit. 
3  And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into the baptism of John. 
4  And Paul said, John baptized a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe unto him that should come after him, that is, unto Jesus. 
5  And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 
6  And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 

1Cor 14:2  For who speaketh in a tongue speaketh not to men, but to God; for no one heareth; but in spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Cor 14:14  For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

[Sower]

2 hours ago, Waggles said:

11 hours ago, Sower said:

So then, please answer yes or no, Waggles, based on your beliefs,
is it possible for me to be a born again Christian who has never spoke in tongues?....
It is a very simple yes or no question. Thanks for your reply.
 

What does scripture, the word of God, teach us all ??

John 3:5  Jesus answered, Amen, Amen, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 
6  What is born of the flesh is flesh; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 
7  Marvel not that I said to thee, Ye must be born from above. 
Joh 3:8  The Spirit breatheth where he willeth, and thou hearest his voice, but knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one born of the Spirit.

Mark 16:15 And he [Jesus] said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
16 Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that have believed: in my name shall they cast out demons, speak with tongues;

Acts 2:4  And all were filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10:44  While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all that heard the word. 
45  And they of the circumcision that believed were amazed, who came with Peter, because that on the nations also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit. 
46  For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 
47  Can anyone forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?

Acts 19:1  And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper regions came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples: 
2  and he said unto them, Whether ye received the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether there is a Holy Spirit. 
3  And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into the baptism of John. 
4  And Paul said, John baptized a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe unto him that should come after him, that is, unto Jesus. 
5  And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 
6  And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 

1Cor 14:2  For who speaketh in a tongue speaketh not to men, but to God; for no one heareth; but in spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Cor 14:14  For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitfu

Is that a yes? Or is that a no?