The Eternal Kingdom Zechariah 14:8 New Jerusalem

[truth7t7]

On 8/30/2022 at 7:22 AM, JoeCanada said:

Then, they are caught up to heaven after the 3 1/2 days, and scripture then tells us that ...."The second woe is past, then the 7th angel prepares to blow the 7th trumpet".... Rev 11:15

They are not around for the bowl/vial judgments in chapter 16.

Thanks for the response Joe!

Joe the 7th Trump is (The End) the 7th vial and 7th Trump are "Parallel Teachings" of (The End) Joe time doesn't continue beyond the 7th Trump as you suggest

As is clearly seen below, the 7th Trump ushers in the "Final Judgement" seen below in verse 18, a "Parallel Teaching" of the GWT judgement seen in Revelation 20:11-15

The book of Revelation is seen in "Parallel Teachings" of same events, not chronological as many believe and teach

Yes the (Two Witnesses) will be upon earth to the "Final Hour(s)" of earth's existence, they are raised to heaven and the "Same Hour" the 2nd woe is past in the Great earthquake, and the 3rd woe comes "Quickly" in the 7th Trump (The End)

Jesus Is The Lord 

(The Seventh Angel Sounded)

(The Time Of The Dead, That They Should Be Judged)

Revelation 11:15-18KJV

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Edited August 31, 2022 by truth7t7

[JoeCanada]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response Joe!

Joe the 7th Trump is (The End) the 7th vial and 7th Trump are "Parallel Teachings" of (The End) Joe time doesn't continue beyond the 7th Trump as you suggest

As is clearly seen below, the 7th Trump ushers in the "Final Judgement" seen below in verse 18, a "Parallel Teaching" of the GWT judgement seen in Revelation 20:11-15

The book of Revelation is seen in "Parallel Teachings" of same events, not chronological as many believe and teach

Yes the (Two Witnesses) will be upon earth to the "Final Hour(s)" of earth's existence, they are raised to heaven and the "Same Hour" the 2nd woe is past in the Great earthquake, and the 3rd woe comes "Quickly" in the 7th Trump (The End)

Jesus Is The Lord 

(The Seventh Angel Sounded)

(The Time Of The Dead, That They Should Be Judged)

Revelation 11:15-18KJV

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Hey t7,

Okay.... let's suppose for a moment that the scenario you suggest is correct, that the trumpet and bowl judgments are "parallel teachings"

Well, let's back up for a minute.

Are the seals, trumpets and bowls happening all at the same time? Like 1st seal, 1st trumpet, 1st bowl.... then 2nd seal, 2nd trumpet, 2nd bowl..... meaning, are they concurrent (and not consecutive)? Is this what you are saying?

I'm just trying to understand before I answer further....

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

Hey t7,

Okay.... let's suppose for a moment that the scenario you suggest is correct, that the trumpet and bowl judgments are "parallel teachings"

Well, let's back up for a minute.

Are the seals, trumpets and bowls happening all at the same time? Like 1st seal, 1st trumpet, 1st bowl.... then 2nd seal, 2nd trumpet, 2nd bowl..... meaning, are they concurrent (and not consecutive)? Is this what you are saying?

I'm just trying to understand before I answer further....

Joe my claim is the 7th Vial and 7th Trump are parallel teachings of (The End) I gave you my response, and validated it with scripture

Time doesn't exist beyond the 7th Trump as you believe and teach, it's the final judgment (The End) as clearly shown

Please respond to my claim, don't draw scenarios up that are outside of my claims made

Does the final judgement take place at the 7th Trump?

Of course it does, your claim that time continues has been clearly proven to be wrong

Edited August 30, 2022 by truth7t7

[JoeCanada]

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Joe my claim is the 7th Vial and 7th Trump are parallel teachings of (The End) I gave you my response, and validated it with scripture

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

 

Please respond to my claim, don't draw scenarios up that are outside of my claims made

Does the final judgement take place at the 7th Trump?

Of course it does, your claim that time continues has been clearly proven to be wrong

T7...

You say..."my claim is the 7th Vial and 7th Trump are parallel teachings of (The End)

I don't understand how this can be. 

If they are parallel teachings..... 7th trump + 7th vial... then when do the other 6 vials get poured out? 

In order for the 7th vial to be poured out, this  necessitates that the other 6 vials be poured out first, does it not?

T7.... I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand your teaching. I'm a Berean, I question things that don't quite line up.

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Time doesn't exist beyond the 7th Trump as you believe and teach, it's the final judgment (The End) as clearly shown

So, is this then the 'time' when Jesus comes down from heaven with His armies for the Battle of Armageddon?

Or what????.... I'm really not understanding what you are teaching.

Please be patient with me..... say it like you would say to a youngin'

Jesus said that the teachings are simple that a child could understand.

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Of course it does, your claim that time continues has been clearly proven to be wrong

?

[Retrobyter]

50 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Joe my claim is the 7th Vial and 7th Trump are parallel teachings of (The End) I gave you my response, and validated it with scripture

Time doesn't exist beyond the 7th Trump as you believe and teach, it's the final judgment (The End) as clearly shown

Please respond to my claim, don't draw scenarios up that are outside of my claims made

Does the final judgement take place at the 7th Trump?

Of course it does, your claim that time continues has been clearly proven to be wrong

Shalom, truth7t7.

Actually, the final judgment does NOT take place at the 7th trumpeting! "Time" is associated with space and the movement of objects through space. That's why Creation is called a "space-mass-time continuum." You can't have one without the other two!

If we were FROZEN, UNABLE TO MOVE AT ALL, that would be the ONLY way that "time" could cease!

People get these weird ideas from a simple statement that, in this case, John made that is misinterpreted to mean something else!

One will read,

Revelation 10:1-7 (KJV)

1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: 2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, 3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. 4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,

"Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

And, come away with the idea that there will be no more time!

That's NOT what is being said here! He is saying that there will be no more DELAY! He's saying that the God's secret shall be fininshed when the seventh messenger begins to sound his shofar/trumpet!

The bottom line is, TIME GOES ON! Eternity is not the absence of time, it's infinite time!

[Retrobyter]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:42 PM, truth7t7 said:

"The Eternal Kingdom" The River Of Life Flowing From New Jerusalem

 

Zechariah 14:8KJV

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

 

Revelation 22:1KJV

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

Ezekiel 47:1-12KJV

1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.

2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.

3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.

4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.

5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.

6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.

7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

Shalom, truth7t7.

THIS is why I know that there will be a Millennial Kingdom as well! The New Jerusalem is not found in Zechariah 14:8.

The Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:8 is MUCH smaller than the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21:2-22:5!

First, on Israeli maps (at least the old ones), UP on the map was EAST! When one is looking forward, one is looking east; when one is looking backward, one is looking west.

Second, "living" waters are MOVING waters! They are not stagnant! They don't GIVE life; they SUPPORT life!

So, when one reads, "that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea," the author is saying that the rivers flow rapidly toward their destinations. The "former sea" is the sea in front of where one is standing or east of where one is standing. Thus, the "former sea" is what today is called the "Dead Sea." The "hinder sea" is the sea to the west of where one is standing, the "Mediterranean Sea." Thus, the length of this Jerusalem is SHORTER than the distance from the Dead Sea to the Mediterranean Sea, which is 48 miles. The width of modern Jerusalem from Hadassah Hospital to Mount Scopus is about 8 miles.

HOWEVER, the New Jerusalem is said to have a length of 12,000 stadia ("furlongs" in the KJV) using the Greek/Roman stadios or stade. Judging from the mile markers around Europe and the Middle East, this stade is about 607.142222... feet.

So, ...

12,000 stad x (607.142222 ft/stad) x (1 mi/5,280 ft) = 1,379.8686... miles in length!

That's about 172.5 times bigger than the current width of Jerusalem! NO WAY is 1,379.87 miles going to fit within the distance of 48 miles between seas! These two Jerusalems are not the same!

Revelation 22:1-2 speak about the River of the Water of Life that flows from the throne of God and down through the middle of the streets to the gates. I have no doubt, therefore, that this River is parted into twelve rivers in twelve different compass directions from the gates of the City.

Ezekiel 14 only talks about TWO rivers that flow from Jerusalem.

[truth7t7]

16 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

T7...

You say..."my claim is the 7th Vial and 7th Trump are parallel teachings of (The End)

I don't understand how this can be. 

If they are parallel teachings..... 7th trump + 7th vial... then when do the other 6 vials get poured out? 

In order for the 7th vial to be poured out, this  necessitates that the other 6 vials be poured out first, does it not?

T7.... I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand your teaching. I'm a Berean, I question things that don't quite line up.

So, is this then the 'time' when Jesus comes down from heaven with His armies for the Battle of Armageddon?

Or what????.... I'm really not understanding what you are teaching.

Please be patient with me..... say it like you would say to a youngin'

Jesus said that the teachings are simple that a child could understand.

?

Joe you allude away from the very foundation of my claim "Why", focus on Revelation 11:18 below, don't distract from the direct question, answer it

Direct Question: Does Revelation 11:18 below show the "Final Judgement" Yes/No?

Of course it does, there is only one "Final Judgment" of "The Dead"

Joe the 7th Trump in Revelation 11:15 is (The End) no time exist beyond this, once I get your acknowledgement on Revelation 11:18 we will move on in our discussion as Bereans

(The Seventh Angel Sounded)

(The Time Of The Dead, That They Should Be Judged)

Revelation 11:15-18KJV

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Edited August 31, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, truth7t7.

THIS is why I know that there will be a Millennial Kingdom as well! The New Jerusalem is not found in Zechariah 14:8.

The Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:8 is MUCH smaller than the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21:2-22:5!

First, on Israeli maps (at least the old ones), UP on the map was EAST! When one is looking forward, one is looking east; when one is looking backward, one is looking west.

Second, "living" waters are MOVING waters! They are not stagnant! They don't GIVE life; they SUPPORT life!

So, when one reads, "that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea," the author is saying that the rivers flow rapidly toward their destinations. The "former sea" is the sea in front of where one is standing or east of where one is standing. Thus, the "former sea" is what today is called the "Dead Sea." The "hinder sea" is the sea to the west of where one is standing, the "Mediterranean Sea." Thus, the length of this Jerusalem is SHORTER than the distance from the Dead Sea to the Mediterranean Sea, which is 48 miles. The width of modern Jerusalem from Hadassah Hospital to Mount Scopus is about 8 miles.

HOWEVER, the New Jerusalem is said to have a length of 12,000 stadia ("furlongs" in the KJV) using the Greek/Roman stadios or stade. Judging from the mile markers around Europe and the Middle East, this stade is about 607.142222... feet.

So, ...

12,000 stad x (607.142222 ft/stad) x (1 mi/5,280 ft) = 1,379.8686... miles in length!

That's about 172.5 times bigger than the current width of Jerusalem! NO WAY is 1,379.87 miles going to fit within the distance of 48 miles between seas! These two Jerusalems are not the same!

Revelation 22:1-2 speak about the River of the Water of Life that flows from the throne of God and down through the middle of the streets to the gates. I have no doubt, therefore, that this River is parted into twelve rivers in twelve different compass directions from the gates of the City.

Ezekiel 14 only talks about TWO rivers that flow from Jerusalem.

I Disagree, Zechariah chapter 14 is the New Jerusalem in the New Heaven and Earth, as the "River Of Life" is only found in the "Eternal Kingdom" that is seen flowing from Jerusalem, it's that simple

Zechariah 14:8KJV

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

[truth7t7]

16 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, truth7t7.

Actually, the final judgment does NOT take place at the 7th trumpeting! "Time" is associated with space and the movement of objects through space. That's why Creation is called a "space-mass-time continuum." You can't have one without the other two!

If we were FROZEN, UNABLE TO MOVE AT ALL, that would be the ONLY way that "time" could cease!

People get these weird ideas from a simple statement that, in this case, John made that is misinterpreted to mean something else!

One will read,

Revelation 10:1-7 (KJV)

1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: 2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, 3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. 4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,

"Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

And, come away with the idea that there will be no more time!

That's NOT what is being said here! He is saying that there will be no more DELAY! He's saying that the God's secret shall be fininshed when the seventh messenger begins to sound his shofar/trumpet!

The bottom line is, TIME GOES ON! Eternity is not the absence of time, it's infinite time!

I Disagree, the 7th Trump is the "Final Judgement" (The End) of Mortal Human Life On This Earth

(The Seventh Angel Sounded)

(The Time Of The Dead, That They Should Be Judged)

Revelation 11:15-18KJV

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

I Disagree, Zechariah chapter 14 is the New Jerusalem in the New Heaven and Earth, as the "River Of Life" is only found in the "Eternal Kingdom" that is seen flowing from Jerusalem, it's that simple

Zechariah 14:8KJV

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Shalom, truth7t7.

Not true. As I said, "living waters" simply means "FLOWING waters." It's not the same as the "River of the water of life," in Revelation 22:1-2.

And, the REAL proof is in the size of the cities! The New Jerusalem is HUGE! It's bigger than anything we have today! It's also just as tall as it is long, 1,379.868686... miles HIGH!

This Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:8 is not even CLOSE to that size!