The Time is Ripe

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, Keiw1 said:

The antichrist will not be a man. The bible says its the number of a man-number is the key in that statement.

 

3 hours ago, Keiw1 said:

In the numbers of men-7 = completeness--this describes what Gods kingdom will do for mankind and all of creation-bring complete relief.

#6 then falls short of complete= what mortal rulers of the earth accomplish-- 666 is the number--3 things in the power positions on earth 1) govts -6-2) false religions-6 3) the commercial system-6--- all claim to be able to do bigger and better things for mankind, but have totally failed them. All 3 lose their power positions upon the arrival of Gods kingdom rule in full control-they do not want to see that-thus= antichrist.

It is easier than that. The Beast is called "a king" every time except one. John calls him "he". John says that he is one of fiev kings who have rules and died in his time. The Beast is one of seven kings total. Angels and demons can't die and a Nation doesn't die and go to the Abyss. The Beast is called a man, and his number is the number of a man. One of his qualities is that contrary to other men, he has no interest in women. Finally, scripture calls him a "man" directly in 2nd Thessalonians 2:3.

[Keiw1]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

 

It is easier than that. The Beast is called "a king" every time except one. John calls him "he". John says that he is one of fiev kings who have rules and died in his time. The Beast is one of seven kings total. Angels and demons can't die and a Nation doesn't die and go to the Abyss. The Beast is called a man, and his number is the number of a man. One of his qualities is that contrary to other men, he has no interest in women. Finally, scripture calls him a "man" directly in 2nd Thessalonians 2:3.

The beasts in Daniel and revelation are world powers. There were 7 in history. The 7th stands now= The 2 horned beast of Rev 13-- These are the last days. The world has watched revelation unfold for many years.

[JohnR7]

On 8/7/2022 at 6:02 PM, Dennis1209 said:

What will the trigger be that starts the chain of events?

This all started when Sarah suggested to Abraham that he have a child with Hagar her Egyptian maid. Also there is a story about how the Palinstines tricked Israel into allowing them to live. 

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I kinda agree with your take, but I shift the "peace" bit forward a bit. Maybe our slight difference in time is due to differing understanding of the covenant the Beast and Israel make. I understand from the grammar (and a most studied portion it is), that the literal translation is; "He (the Beast) confirms  (or "strengthens") THE Covenant ... ". Israel have Two Covenants with God; (i) the covenant of Promise with Abraham and his seed, and (ii) the Covenant of Law with Moses. All other Covenants, like that of the priesthood and of the Sabbath and of Passover are under ordinance of the Covenant of Law. Now, THE Covenant that the Beast "strengthens" is not left to our imaginations. It is that Covenant that contains the "daily oblation". That is - the Covenant of Law. What is decisive, as I have said before, is that the Covenant of Law has, as its center, "the place God will choose to put His name". The Law of Tithes, Harvests and Feasts all depend on there being a Temple in Jerusalem.

Now, if the Beast is to "strengthen THE Covenant" at the beginning of the last week, there would have to be Peace at least some months before when he negotiated the building of the third Temple. However, it is all academic for you and I because Daniel is prophecy for "Daniel's People". Of course we study it and find great pleasure in God' plans with all men, but 2nd Thessalonians is  much more pertinent to us. There, it is not the building of a Temple or a Covenant, but the "revealing" of the Beast. The Beast must have at least four fames. He must ascend out of the Abyss, he must be revealed as a master politician, he must be crowned by the ten kings and he must be anointed as deity in the Holy of Holies. We need only be there for the first two (2nd Thess.2:3). If we are on earth for the last two, we have missed the rapture of the firstfruits.

The point that many Christians miss is that we do not know the time of His (Christ's) "Parousia" (Gk.) - His coming in secret to the clouds. If Israel had insight on Daniel (they are blind to the end), they would know the day of His "Apokalypsis" (Gk.) - His bursting forth from the clouds over Jerusalem. Students of prophecy don't make the difference, and so we have the hefty debates. They get His "Erchomai" (Gk.) - His "arrival" in the various places jumbled. It is not that complicated, but it needs lots of "grunt work". That is, going through the scriptures over and over till all objections are answered.

You introduced some thought-provoking commentary I had never heard before, interesting. I cannot say I agree, disagree, or comment on some of your opinions, as I would have to restudy them all considering your assessment.

My view is when the A/C confirms a covenant with Israel and the many, it is the official start of the Tribulation, and the clock starts ticking. It does not say, but it could be a covenant A/C develops on his own or a former draft by the United Nations or whomever.

Either way, I agree that rebuilding the Temple is allowed under this covenant. It is curious what would appease the Muslims to allow the rebuilding of the Temple if the second Temple location is exact and correct.

The Temple Institute has everything ready for their first sacrifice in the new Temple, including the spotless red heifer. They estimated it would take less than a year to build the Temple and begin.

From scripture, I get the impression the A/C preexisted as a human on earth. It might reference the resurrection of the A/C, but I do not think so.

Revelation 17:8 (KJV) The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Only two in the Bible are called “the son of perdition,” Satan and Judas Iscariot. That’s interesting to conjecture.

The “Ten Kings” is another mystery to me so far. If the literal rebuilding of Babylon is to occur, along with the Ten Kings, the only things I do not visualize in the convergence of everything prophetic.

Perhaps these Ten Kings were established after the United Nations Great Reset, to occur at or before 2030. But these Ten Kings have something the A/C needs and wants; they do not appear to be appointees. Business empires are merging into uncontrollable conglomerates; space X, Amazon, Walmart, news media, social media, food production (Monsanto), internet search engines, banks, etc.

A handful of people own and control most major everything; small businesses and competition are being swallowed up. Antitrust laws are a thing of the past, even in Russia.

Thinking outside the box, I believe these Ten Kings may be the CEOs controlling business, industry, and what makes the world go around.

The more we witness, the more prophetic understanding we glean.

[Dennis1209]

1 minute ago, JohnR7 said:

This all started when Sarah suggested to Abraham that he have a child with Hagar her Egyptian maid. Also there is a story about how the Palinstines tricked Israel into allowing them to live. 

I think I slipped the name "Ishmael" in one of my posts https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/default_biggrin.png

[JohnR7]

19 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

it is the official start of the Tribulation

They do not have to build a temple. That takes place half way though the Tribulation. They can put up  a tent or tabernacle within 24 hours. So the tribulation as it is commonly taught could begin at any time. But I do not think it can begin until the third day or the 2000 year anniversary of the church on the day of pentecost. No one knows for sure when the first pentecost was. If there is a tribulation period. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by JohnR7

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, Keiw1 said:

The beasts in Daniel and revelation are world powers. There were 7 in history. The 7th stands now= The 2 horned beast of Rev 13-- These are the last days. The world has watched revelation unfold for many years.

In Daniel Chapter 7 it is so, but elsewhere they are kings. Even in Daniel Chapter seven the "kingdoms" are led by men. You can see that "kingdoms" are designated "it" whereas the Beast's, who are their kings, are always "he". It is impossible to make the following a  world power. World powers do not desire women, and world powers do not have fathers.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things (Da 11:37–38)

This, plus my other observations make him a man.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

Gog and Magog happen after the 1000 year reign of the Messiah.

Both Ezekiel and Revelation speak of the same events.

Ezekiel 37:1-15 = Resurrections
Ezekiel 37:15-28 = Reign of the Messiah
Ezekiel 38 and 39 = Gog and Magog

Revelation 20:4-5 = Resurrections
Revelation 20:5-7 = Reign of Messiah
Revelation 20:7-10 = Gog and Magog

"And when the 1000 years are over,
Satan shall be loosed from his prison
and go out to deceive the nations... Gog and Magog"
Revelation 20:7-8

Nothing of Ezekiel 37 has happened yet.

In Paul's day many mistakenly said that the resurrections had past already.
Many error saying that Ezekiel 37 is not about actual resurrection, but it clearly is.
Certainly when Paul read Ezekiel 37 he would have thought it was about actual resurrection.

"the promise made to our fathers" Acts 26:5-8  [Acts 23:6-8, 24:14-15]

Ezekiel 37:12 is that very promise of resurrection that Paul is referring to!
"O my people I will open up your graves and bring you up out of your graves"

"Come from the four winds, Oh breath of life, and breath upon these slain that they may live"
Ezekiel 37:9-10

"He shall send forth His angels with the great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together His chosen ones, from the four winds"
Matthew 24:31

Both passages are clearly about actual resurrection,
and are the only place in the Bible that "from the four winds" is used like that!

-------

"If you meet your enemies animal going astray, give it back to him,
if you see one that hates you struggling with his burden,
even if you don't want to help him, you shall surely help him with it"
Exodus 23:4-5

"the stranger that dwells among you shall be as one born among you,
and you shall love him as yourself, I am the Lord your God"
Leviticus 19:33-34

"If you will not hearken unto me...
I will punish you seven times more for your sins...
seven time mores plagues...
if you will not be reformed...
yet seven times more...
I will chastise you seven times for your sins"
Leviticus 26:14-28

"If you will not hearken unto me...
The stranger that is among you shall get up very high above you...
he shall lend to you, and you shall not lend to him"

"The Lord shall bring a nation against you from far,
from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies"

"And the Lord shall scatter thee among all people...
and you shall worship other gods,
which neither you nor your fathers have known,
even wood and stone."

Deuteronomy 28:15,43-44,49,64

"...And these nations [Israel and the surrounding]
shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
And it shall come to pass that when seventy years are over
that I will punish the king of Babylon...
And I took the cup at the Lords hand,
and made all the nations to drink,
unto whom the Lord had sent me,
To wit, Jerusalem and the cities of Judah...
to make them a desolation....
and all the kingdoms of the world... shall drink.."
Jeremiah 25:1-26

"In the first year of Darius... I Daniel understood by the books,
the number of years, which came as the word of the Lord by Jeremiah the prophet,
how that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
[Daniel had been in captivity 70 years 2 Chronicles 36:13-21]
Daniel 9:1-2

And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications....
O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee,
let thine anger be turned away from thy city Jerusalem...
And whiles I was speaking... Gabriel... informed me....
Seventy captivities are determined upon thy people...

Daniel 9:3,16,21-22,24

[So that is seventy sets of 70 year captivities; 4,900 total years worth of captivity,
repeated sevens, as prophesied back in Leviticus]

And after 32 captivities shall the Messiah suffer the death penalty,
but not for Himself.... Daniel 9:26

 

Another captivity is ending, each ends with war, war in and around Israel, war effecting the whole world.
 

The anti-Christ is a world wide deception, Satan getting people to put a mark on their right hand or forehead,
and to worship a speaking image of a man, a man seemingly healed from death.

To do this he will pretend to be the Messiah, come to save the Jews and mankind from war.

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

You introduced some thought-provoking commentary I had never heard before, interesting. I cannot say I agree, disagree, or comment on some of your opinions, as I would have to restudy them all considering your assessment.

My view is when the A/C confirms a covenant with Israel and the many, it is the official start of the Tribulation, and the clock starts ticking. It does not say, but it could be a covenant A/C develops on his own or a former draft by the United Nations or whomever.

Either way, I agree that rebuilding the Temple is allowed under this covenant. It is curious what would appease the Muslims to allow the rebuilding of the Temple if the second Temple location is exact and correct.

The Temple Institute has everything ready for their first sacrifice in the new Temple, including the spotless red heifer. They estimated it would take less than a year to build the Temple and begin.

From scripture, I get the impression the A/C preexisted as a human on earth. It might reference the resurrection of the A/C, but I do not think so.

Revelation 17:8 (KJV) The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Only two in the Bible are called “the son of perdition,” Satan and Judas Iscariot. That’s interesting to conjecture.

The “Ten Kings” is another mystery to me so far. If the literal rebuilding of Babylon is to occur, along with the Ten Kings, the only things I do not visualize in the convergence of everything prophetic.

Perhaps these Ten Kings were established after the United Nations Great Reset, to occur at or before 2030. But these Ten Kings have something the A/C needs and wants; they do not appear to be appointees. Business empires are merging into uncontrollable conglomerates; space X, Amazon, Walmart, news media, social media, food production (Monsanto), internet search engines, banks, etc.

A handful of people own and control most major everything; small businesses and competition are being swallowed up. Antitrust laws are a thing of the past, even in Russia.

Thinking outside the box, I believe these Ten Kings may be the CEOs controlling business, industry, and what makes the world go around.

The more we witness, the more prophetic understanding we glean.

I see the official start of the Great Tribulation as the Abomination of Desolation (Matt.24:15-21). That is, 3½ years into the last week.

I think the Temple Institute don't care about authenticity. Since AD 70 the records of who are the priests are missing. The ashes of the Red Heifer have not officially been found and the implements of the Holy Place and Holy of Holies have never been found since 70 AD. They can erect the building in less than a year (because they don't need all of Herod's additions), but when God makes an end to something it stays broken. Israel today have little or no inclination towards the Law of Moses. But 2nd Thessalonians 2 calls this third Temple "The Temple of God", so for sure, when the time is right, God will allows circumstances for a quick and accurate rebuild.

More interesting is Revelation 17. Mystery Babylon has two departments. (i) The world religious system, and (ii) the world economic system. Matthew 13 gives the Tares being judged and destroyed BEFORE the Wheat. This is in agreement with Revelation 17 where the ten kings abolish world religion so that all worship can be focused on the beast and ultimately the Dragon. That event is not going to go down lightly. Imagine telling 1.3 billion Catholics and 1.6 billion Muslims that what they believed for centuries is invalid. And then the Jews will face their darkest hour. The embracing of a Gentile king, his politics and ultimately putting him in Jehovah's Seat in the most holy place. From a Christian perspective, this must overshadow any threat of war.

The ten kings don't present much of a problem in my mind. If you do your homework you will find that many nations have one or more families who claim ancestry to kings of their country. What is perhaps important is that Democracy is a weak form of Government (clay) and those nations who are economic powers like Germany and Japan tend to want a "go-getter" leader. Although it is taboo, Hitler is still venerated in certain circles because his strong-arm leadership benefited many Germans. It would not take much to sway the more diligent nations to elect a king, even if it s under the mantle of Democracy. After all, the Biblical view is "IRON and clay".

I share your view that the Beast is a man and he's been around before. I have about seven proofs for who he is. Here are some:

1. Daniel 9 makes him a "prince of the people who destroyed the Temple". He must be a Roman
2. He comes out of the "sea". The sea in parable is the Nations
3. He comes out of the Abyss. He lived before and died
4. He is one seven kings of John's time - he must be a Roman
5. He is one of five who have died - a Roman Caesar
6. He is number eight. "Eight" is the biblical number of resurrection
7. He is connected with seven hills. Of the six world powers of history, only one citadel is on seven hills - Rome
8. He was, is and is to come - the same language that is used for our resurrected Lord Jesus
9. Of the five previous Caesars, ONE NAME fits the Numerics of 666 in both Hebrew and Greek - Caesar Nero
10. He is resurrected out of time, but this was "given" him (Dan.7:25)
11. Nero was a cunning statesman
12. Nero was the greatest persecutor of Christians ever
13. Nero believed he was deity
14. Each one by themselves is not decisive. But what are the odds of them all being correct.
15. The Beast does not die twice. He goes to the Lake of Fire alive

I don't hold that Babylon must be rebuilt. The four world powers of Daniel 2 have Babylon as their "Head". God designates this as gold. The religion that was practiced by all six world powers was that of Nimrod's Babylon. Religion is more powerful than any political system. Men will more likely die for their God than their king. The destruction of the ten toes bring the whole effigy of Daniel 2 down even though three quarters of it does not exist today.. For this to happen the effigy is more than a series of obsolete nations. Babylon in Revelation is "Mystery" Babylon. If I am right and Babylon is religious Babylon, then (i) there is no need to rebuild the city, (ii) the religion of the city lives on today, (iii) Babylon exercises major political and religious power without existing as a single building.

I am the first one to go for the literal meaning, but Babylon, like its counterpart New Jerusalem, is symbolic (Rev.1:1).

[Alive]

I am convinced Nero was the beast, but I cannot get on board with him being resurrected.