God is not a laundry service that wash your sins in two hours and then you become clean and fragrant.

[Your closest friendnt]

45 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

The accuser is ALWAYS the guilty party. They love to accuse others of what they are guilty of. The Bible warns us about people who go around accusing the brothern. 

The discussion has to do with hermeneutics and how to understand and interpret the Word of God. 

You are not addressing the problem, even you want to ignore it...

Paul did not tell the believers who lived in Jerusalem and who were part of a society or community who were strict followers of the Law and who were still enforcing the law in their communities...

Paul told them when they are in these kind of situations to follow and to say nothing against it, and the same in regards to their relatives, follow their traditions for their shakes... 

But when it came to Gentiles who lived under totally different circumstances, he told them, NOT TO JUDGE THEM BY THE LAW...Not to put them into bondage, and cause them problems by telling them to keep the Sabbath...and not to ender into Gentiles homes...in two words not to do what they do not do...please address the issues...if you want to...

[Your closest friendnt]

On 8/28/2022 at 2:24 AM, R. Hartono said:

Luke 13:5 ...unless you repent you shall all perish.

There's a song singing "Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?". But thats just a myth.

God is not a laundry service that clean your sins with the blood of the Lamb. And then you claim to be holy.

Unless we repent how can mankind become such holy ? And repentance means a lifetime obedience.

GALL is found in every human (Greed, Arrogancy, Loathe, Lust). Something may stir it then....bang you sin again.

No angels or God banging your head on the wall when you open porns, or smoke, or drink or curse or steal or lie. 

To be called to be choosen and to be faithful, or to sin, its our hearts that choose. 

Some devil in heaven rebelled, they want to remove God and rule heaven. God gives them freedom, to follow their GALL or to be obedient. Its our hearts decision to guard our heart against our GALL. Its not God's decision. Isnt it ?

You cannot tell him what to do...

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

You are not addressing the problem, even you want to ignore it...

Paul did not tell the believers who lived in Jerusalem and who were part of a society or community who were strict followers of the Law and who were still enforcing the law in their communities...

 follow their traditions for their shakes... 

You are confusing traditions with the Law. Paul makes this all very clear and He wants us to understand that we can be righteous before God:

"21But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness is given through faith in ^h Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Romans 3)

Paul makes it clear that we can be made righteous before God through the power of the Grace of God working in us. He tells us that the Law and the Prophets testify that we can be righteous. 

 

 

 

 

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

But when it came to Gentiles who lived under totally different circumstances, he told them, NOT TO JUDGE THEM BY THE LAW...Not to put them into bondage, and cause them problems by telling them to keep the Sabbath...and not to ender into Gentiles homes...in two words not to do what they do not do...please address the issues...if you want to...

The teachings of Jesus is very clear in regards to the law. Paul was dealing with the traditions which Jesus also spoke out against. 

 

The Fulfillment of the Law Matthew 5:19
…18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.…

I intend to follow the teachings of Jesus. I am going to teach that we should all follow the teachings of Jesus and the commandments of God. We should do our best to live our life as an example for others. Which is exactly what Paul did. 

 

 

 

[JohnR7]

3 hours ago, JimmyB said:

ALL the Bible, pertains to us today

I see this when I watch the news. I see homes destroyed by water or by fire. I do not think anything worse can happen to these people. If there is a tribulation period, it cannot be any worse that what some people are having to endure today. 

I do not think there are parts of the Bible that pertain to the past or the future. All of the Bible pertains to all of us today in this moment of time. 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, JohnR7 said:

You are confusing traditions with the Law. Paul makes this all very clear and He wants us to understand that we can be righteous before God:

"21But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness is given through faith in ^h Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Romans 3)

Paul makes it clear that we can be made righteous before God through the power of the Grace of God working in us. He tells us that the Law and the Prophets testify that we can be righteous. 

 

 

 

 

Paul made it clear that we rest in Jesus Christ righteousness...we rest from our fears of being lost at the time of our death...

Paul make it clear more than once, that we are accepted as Holy by Jesus Christ under different circumstances for each and everyone of us...

This is very important because people make out their own rules and in their eyes amongst them selves they accept one a other as Holy... but they cannot take the judgment from the hands of Jesus Christ...they cannot substitute his Judgment, because in his Judgment Jesus may have accepted as Holy someone they have rejected and they do not want to fellowship with him, and the other way around.

Jesus Christ is righteous and we as his children, and that has nothing to with the physical children, because we are the children of Jesus Christ because we are born of his Spirit...and of his Life giving blood...and because we are under his Life giving blood as long as we believe we are his children born of his Spirit...And is if we die with faith in him, we we are not going to be where our dead body goes...we are not going to follow our dead body...

We are going to be to where Jesus is and not where our dead body is, are you kidding me!!! Does someone is trying to convince me that I will follow my dead body...how about is I do not have a mirror and I die do not knowing of how I look like....just testing....

Edited September 2, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

21 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

The teachings of Jesus is very clear in regards to the law. Paul was dealing with the traditions which Jesus also spoke out against. 

 

The Fulfillment of the Law Matthew 5:19
…18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.…

I intend to follow the teachings of Jesus. I am going to teach that we should all follow the teachings of Jesus and the commandments of God. We should do our best to live our life as an example for others. Which is exactly what Paul did. 
 

So according to Jesus in Mathew 5:19...the Heaven and Earth has pass away..

Jesus said it has been acoblished and the Heavenly Father gave his witness when he ripped the veil that separated the most Holy Place from the Holy Place where the Priests were doing their ministry...

Now what does the Law say about that? If something like that happens, and it is not the doing of men...

The Gospel it is not about righteousness it does not substantiate the righteousness obtain under the Law, it has nothing to do with the righteousness as it was in the Law of Moses. 

Absolutely it has nothing to do, because through the Law no one could be found righteous in the Heavenly Father, no one...because the people under the Law did not stand before the Heavenly Father...under the grace of Jesus Christ...

They stand to before the Lord God who had rejected the other children of Abraham even the first born of Abraham and had also rejected the first born of Issac...and if he had rejected those who were from the blood line of Abraham and Issac, then it is easy to figure it out that he had rejected the rest of the world..

At the death of Jesus Christ everything change, the old was gone, God made Jesus Christ the Judge of all, that means the whole world is reconciled to God...

The buck stopped there, it has nothing to do with the blood of Abraham and the Circumcision...and the Temple, because the Aaronic Priesthood became ordinary, became one with the rest of the tribes as it was before the Law was given...

Note please because we said the Aaronic Priesthood...no High Priest anymore...the Priests stopped having a man child as a first born...God gave them a sign...John the Baptist..

Matthew 5:19
…18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 

 

[kwikphilly]

On 8/29/2022 at 11:37 PM, Sower said:

Actually, the bible says all my sins are already covered by the blood of my savior.

It also says; "If I confess my sins, he is faithful and just to forgive me my  sins and to cleanse me from all unrighteousness"
Instantly, he washes me of all unrighteousness. God is light, his promises are true, Hartono.
This is not a salvation issue, but a relationship promise. Work out your own salvation.With fear and trembling.
for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.  Philippians 2:12-13

 

Amen Brother!!!!

R,Hartono

 No,we are not cleansed in 2 hours like a laundry service---- it's instantaneous!!!! HALLELUYAH!

From the very moment we come to Jesus with a repentant heart,ask forgiveness& our sins are cast into the sea of Forgiveness because we are Covered with the Blood of THEE PERFECT LAMB of God..... That is the Grace of Almighty God in Christ - Faith, not works....instantly!

Undeserved,unmerited Grace is Given us through our Faith in Christ Jesus..... A filthy wretched sinner confesses his sin & Receives Christ ,our Redeemer Lives and He Lives in us! That filthy wretched,smoking,drunkard,theiving ,lying,lustful sinner leaves all that on the Cross the very moment he asks to be forgiven and Receives Jesus as Lord & Savior of his life- he is Free indeed of sin & bondage with the Guaranteed Seal of Redemption

Perhaps the next day he wakes up & desires a drink,has no money so he thinks about stealing- why? Are the chains of bondage not broken? Yes they are but the flesh is weak & just as Brother Sower quoted Phil" Work out your own Salvation with fear & trembling" the enemy does not stop tempting the flesh and he can get a foothold again & again & again .... Yet,The Seal of Redemption is not broken!

We must renew our minds and grow as New Creatures in Christ and DIE to ourselves daily to walk in Spirit & in Truth..... But,it is no longer us struggling along & dead in sin- He Who is in us is Greater than he who is in the world and everything changes! The Spirit is Alive & Holy Spirit is the Helper that Jesus Promised to help us remain free from those chains & shackles

The Born Again Believer might light a cigarette 2 hours later,do you think he has just lost his Salvation? Of course not! He may have his usual drinks as well because his flesh is bound but surely he will no longer want to live that way - God Can also Deliver in an instant but usually it's a process..... None of those things mean the man is unrepentant,it's a process of repentance......

God Bless us all,we all struggle between flesh & spirit..... In this life

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by kwikphilly

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

You are confusing traditions with the Law. Paul makes this all very clear and He wants us to understand that we can be righteous before God:

"21But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness is given through faith in ^h Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Romans 3)

 

 

4 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

 

Paul makes it clear that we can be made righteous before God through the power of the Grace of God working in us. He tells us that the Law and the Prophets testify that we can be righteous. 

 

This statement has not clarity...John 1:17 

¹⁷ For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

No one can be made righteous before God through the power of the grace of God working in us, as in your quoted statement. In John 1:12,13 we read...

¹² But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

¹³ Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

***Paul teach against that, to boast and to seek to be made righteous with our own efforts and with the power of the grace of God working in us...

***This statement in other words it says that we are not made righteous the moment we first believe in the name of Jesus.  Paul preach against that....the gospel of John: v,12,v13 

¹² But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

¹³ Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This statement it also departs from the Gospel in which Gospel the Heavenly Father has given us Jesus Christ as our Lord...to him we stand and to him we fall, but never we fall out of his blood...we are always in his blood. We believe that Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins...we are free from our sins, we are righteous because we believe in him and because he is righteous..

As long as he is righteous we are righteous and he will be righteous fore ever...

If Jesus sins we are lost.

He is also our Judge who has paid the penalty from our sins...God has given our Judgment to Jesus Christ...and Jesus turns the other chick he does not retaliate....forever he forgives...before we asked...

We need to acknowledge our sins and turned away from them....we have to turn away from what Jesus is asking us, and it is not the same for everyone...everyone is unique so is not the same and not at the same timing..Jesus has a devine time for everyone, and people have their own...

It's up to us to turn away from our sin(s)....it's up to us to seek to keep our robes clean, but inspite of the situation of our robes, we are clean in the name of Jesus. 

We do not need to wash our robes clean and make them white...to belong to him...we belong to him when we believe, and if we are born in believers families, even if one parent is a believer then we are born to Jesus Christ...because of our parent's faith...

We are under the blood of the Lamb, with bright clean robes or with soiled white robes...

We are with the robe of the blood of the Lamb, even when we are not in the book of the Life...even when we do things our own way, when we take the reins of our life in our own hands...we still believe. 

In revelation 3: this is what we learn from...the people Jesus said are in danger to blot their names of the book of Life...they were believers in Jesus Christ their names ware in the book of the Lamb of God, only they are not doing as much as they were doing before, they knew how to do the good works to further the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but for some reason they are in their own moods...they do not produce as much fruit, they are not following what Jesus is commanding them to do, to be the shower's of the word in good deeds...for the benefit of others, not to live as self centre believers...to open up a little bit...so Jesus can used them for the benefit of others....no one is a disciple and for that reason their names are written and will remain written till the end in the book of Life...not to worry about that...if Jesus has given you to take care and be a light to your children he is very please, because this is what he has asked from you...

Repented, or partialy repented, or mix of this or that, Catholic or not Catholic our name is in the book of the Lamb of God because we believe in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins...our name maybe blotted from the Catholic Bishop's book, but our name remains in the book of the Lamb of God...and there are other books like the book of the Catholic Bishops. Every christian group, or every Pastor have their own book...they all keep a book with the names of those who followed them..and Jesus keeps his own books ..Amen. 

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[JimmyB]

14 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Like I said, this is basic Bible school teaching. You can do a google search on how we interpret the Bible. They call this: hermeneutics. 

In the history of biblical interpretation, four major types of hermeneutics have emerged: the literal, moral, allegorical, and anagogical.

The primary need of Hermeneutics is to determine and understand the meaning of Biblical text. The purpose of Hermeneutics is to bridge the gap between our minds and the minds of the Biblical writers through a thorough knowledge of the original languages, ancient history and the comparison of Scripture with Scripture.

I know what hermeneutics is.  However, you wrote earlier that everything written in the Bible applies to us.  It doesn't.

There are two covenants: the old and the new.  The Old Covenant is a contract between God and the Jews.  The New Covenant is a contract between God and those who accept Jesus Christ as their Savior.  You can't be under both.