Genesis 2:11 The Garden of Eden's Location

[JohnR7]

7 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Actually, that's not true. ALL animals domestic or wild, had to be preserved upon the earth. You're still not getting the fact that this was a WORLDWIDE Flood!

Are you trying to argue that Noah's flood was a world wide flood? Does that mean you believe Kangaroos can swim?

[Retrobyter]

7 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

Are you trying to argue that Noah's flood was a world wide flood? Does that mean you believe Kangaroos can swim?

Shabbat shalom, JohnR7.

Are you trying to say that kangaroos couldn't have lived in the area in which Noach built the ark? The WHOLE PLANET was terraformed in the aftermath of this Flood! The movement of the tectonic plates were massive; the oceans were deepened; the mountains were grown, and new CONTINENTS were formed! The whole idea of a Pangaea goes back to the antediluvian world, the world before the Flood!

When the penninsula of India "snapped" northward, forming the Himalayas, the land of Autralia and islands of Oceania were isolated and the currently considered "indigenous Australian life," like kangaroos, wallabies, tasmanian devils, tasmanian wolves, and duckbill platypuses, were STRANDED to that continent!

We can read,

"Birds are very common in Australia and Oceania because they are one of the few animals mobile enough to move from island to island. There are more than 110 endemic bird species in Australia and Oceania, including many seabirds. Many flightless birds, such as emus, kiwis, cassowaries, wekas, and takahes, are native to Australia, Papua New Guinea, and New Zealand. The Pacific Islands have more than 25 species of birds of paradise, which exhibit colorful plumage.

Lizards and bats make up the majority of Australia and Oceania’s native land animals. Lizard species include the goanna, skink, and bearded dragon. Australia and Oceania has more than a hundred different species of fruit bats.

The few native land animals in Australia and Oceania are unusual. Australia and Oceania is the only place in the world that is home to monotremes—mammals that lay eggs. All monotremes are native to Australia and Papua New Guinea. There are only five living species: the duckbill platypus and four species of echidna." (See NationalGeographic.org on Oceania-physical-geography.)

I think they forgot the Outback with the snakes and crocodiles.

All of these species were STRANDED to this new continent and these new islands, and some are quite unique! But, God CREATED them all! There is NO "kind" of animal that God did not create in the first, LITERAL six days of Creation.

[other one]

I do think that Eden was in the area of where Babylon was, however was in a different dimension.  When Adam and  Eve ate of the fruit they were banished from higher dimensions.   I think that's why the tower was built in that area for they were trying to reenter that dimension.

One has to go way outside just scripture to get a real understanding of the thought, however it is mine.

[JohnR7]

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Are you trying to say that kangaroos couldn't have lived in the area in which Noach built the ark?

Correct. 

 

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

The WHOLE PLANET was terraformed in the aftermath of this Flood! The movement of the tectonic plates were massive; the oceans were deepened; the mountains were grown, and new CONTINENTS were formed! The whole idea of a Pangaea goes back to the antediluvian world, the world before the Flood!

Yes, this is correct. 

[JohnR7]

2 hours ago, other one said:

I do think that Eden was in the area of where Babylon was

Eden was in the Tigris, Euphrates River valley. Babylon is in Iran. They are both on the Arab Continental Plate. 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles that will become the New Jerusalem. Abraham was the first Hebrew to cross over the great river. Today we read in Revelation the river is beginning to dry up. This is revealing a lot of previously unknown archeology sites. 

Sudan Hussain tried to rebuild Babylon, but he was not able to. The Bible says the city will not be rebuilt. 

Babylon was a popular spot for the Americans to visit when they were in Iran. They are not currently doing any archeology there because it is just too dangerous. Most of what we have done was 100 years ago. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by JohnR7

[Jedi4Yahweh]

On 10/3/2022 at 6:37 AM, Retrobyter said:

We don't even know if we have the right directions for the Euphrates and the Tigris (Hiddekel) Rivers! It's possible they were flowing in the opposite directions at one point in time!

Good point.  Such of world wide flood would have reconfigured the face of the earth and rivers.

[BeyondET]

15 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, BeyondET.

Regarding the huge sheets of rock, it's neither. This comes from geological evidence. IF one trusts the geologic scale, there are huge areas where the geologic column is COMPLETELY upside down, according to what Evolution would expect! Others have been shifted at odd angles, because of mountain-building. Mostly from geologic surveys from Colorado to Northern Montana here in the USA, these sheets of rock with strata having index fossils appear to have completely been reversed! Others just have a jumble of "index fossils" within them. Despite their attempts to "normalize" the system of dating the rock strata, they are trying to make sense of a MOSAIC!

As far as the vegetation leaving the garden, let's see: We're talking about 1700 years (at least) between the Creation of the earth's biosphere and the world-wide Flood of Noach's 600th year. This can be ascertained by adding up the ages of fathers when their sons were born (found in Genesis 5), and the fact that Noach was 600 years old when the Flood was upon the earth.

We know from Scripture that God had placed guards (k'ruwViym) at the entrance(s) of the garden, so that people could not go back in. Thus, we are talking about a LIMITED size to this garden enclosure, with plenty of surface area on the planet outside of this garden enclosure. The garden, we are told, had the greatest variety of fruit trees and herbs, food for the humans to live on, before the human beings were expelled. The wonderful thing about plants is that they tend to grow and proliferate anyway if left on their own. Originally, Adam's job was to be caretakers for this garden. With Adam gone, the garden soon became overrun with plants. The guards were to keep people out, not to keep plants within (although they were there to protect the Tree of Life). I'm sure that birds and other wild animals were not denied access to the plants within the garden; therefore, it is most likely that within the 1700 years or so, the seeds of the plants within the garden were carried to nearby locations outside of the garden. It's hard to keep plants at bay, when their environment is MADE for them to thrive! This is why I feel it is safe to assume that these plants expanded beyond the border of the garden, with the exception of the Tree of Life, from which the guards were placed to repel human beings. This is why I believe it is SAFE to assume that plants within the garden expanded beyond the garden enclosure (with the exception of the species of tree called "the Tree of Life").

Well imo it doesn't seem plausible God neglecting the garden or abandoned it just because man was gone. I've tried to find the verse that says the garden had the greatest variety of fruit trees and herbs can you post it?. Hard to keep at bay I wouldn't think would be hard for God to do in his garden.

Edited October 16, 2022 by BeyondET

[Retrobyter]

37 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

Eden was in the Tigris, Euphrates River valley. Babylon is in Iran. They are both on the Arab Continental Plate. 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles that will become the New Jerusalem. Abraham was the first Hebrew to cross over the great river. Today we read in Revelation the river is beginning to dry up. This is revealing a lot of previously unknown archeology sites. 

Sudan Hussain tried to rebuild Babylon, but he was not able to. The Bible says the city will not be rebuilt. 

Babylon was a popular spot for the Americans to visit when they were in Iran. They are not currently doing any archeology there because it is just too dangerous. Most of what we have done was 100 years ago. 

Shalom, JohnR7.

You may be right about Babylon or BaVel ("Babel") where the ziggurat was constructed to reach the top of the sky. It was where the peoples congregated into one metropolis after the Flood - exactly the OPPOSITE of what God told Noach and his descendants to do:

Genesis 9:1-17 (KJV)

1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them,

"Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. 5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

6 "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

7 "And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein."

8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, 

9 "And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; 10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. 11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth."

[Which is proof, by the way, that this was not a local flood, for there have been a myriad of local floods since then.]

12 And God said,

"This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: 13 I do set my bow [= rainbow] in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. 14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: [It's always there. One just has to have the right angle to see it.] 15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth."

17 And God said unto Noah,

"This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth."

So, they were supposed to spread out over the earth and populate it. Instead, they gravitated to a city!

[BeyondET]

16 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

The experts on the Middle East Botney are PhD professors at the university in Jerusalem. Usually they just submit articles in their own trade journals, but there are rare books that deal with this subject. So Science tells us that the evidence shows that wild flowers became domesticated flowers in ancient Mesopotamia in the Tigris Euphrates river valley. Wild flowers are seeds spread by nature. Domesticated plants are seeds spread by man. This is what Noah's ark was about, preserving the seeds.  By definition, ONLY domesticated plants and animals were on Noah's Ark. There could not have been wild plants and animals on the Ark. 

Today we have a situation where the Euphrates river is going dry.  This has uncovered ancient archeology sites. 

Revelation 16:12

The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East.

I think scripture doesn't mention the garden trees as seed bearing. In Gen 1 does mention earth's vegetation and trees etc as seed bearing. But the garden was different than earth's vegetation built after and its trees unique not needing seeds to reproduce. It's Botney like nothing else on earth a special place.

Edited October 16, 2022 by BeyondET

[Retrobyter]

26 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

Well imo it doesn't seem plausible God neglecting the garden or abandoned it just because man was gone. I've tried to find the verse that says the garden had the greatest variety of fruit trees and herbs can you post it?. Hard to keep at bay I wouldn't think would be hard for God to do in his garden.

Shalom, BeyondET.

Well, it WAS Adam's (the pair of them were named "Adam," btw) job to care for the garden.

Genesis 2:15-17 (KJV)

15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying,

"Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

As to your request of a location that says the garden had the greatest variety of fruit trees and herbs, here you go:

Genesis 2:8-9 (KJV)

8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The herbs were already given to man for food in Genesis 1:29

Genesis 1:29-30 (KJV)

29 And God said,

"Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth [including within the garden], and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat":

and it was so. 

One should take notice, though, that the text never says that the man knew where the Tree of Life was. He was only instructed not to eat from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

Furthermore, the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is not some magical tree. It is just an ironic name! When they ate from the tree, disobeying God's command, they acquired the knowledge about the difference between good and evil: God is good, and now THEY were evil! There was an INSTANT CONTRAST! Before they ate from it, they were good, like God was good; so, there was no difference detectable!