Witnessing to Jewish people

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, Slibhin said:

The vast majority of Jews rejected him

Just like Isaiah 53 said they would.

Hmmm

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

Because that's exactly what a Jew who converts to another religion is by Jewish law. I'm not saying it out of malice.

Where exactly is the double standard? 

Then why isn't Jeremiah considered an apostate?

He prophesied a New Covenant that will be unlike Torah (Yirimyahu 31:30-33). 

[Anne2]

8 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Best of luck with the Jewish outreach.

Who is Melchizedek? Shem a son of Noah?

[Anne2]

24 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

 

I don't read your Bible so I'm not qualified to make commentary. Besides that the answers to your questions are answered in the same passages you quoted, (at least in the Torah), so what can I possibly add?

It is a question of what your rabbis teach., not you personally. I am not asking this for your opinion, but what the Rabbi's teach. I am asking because these things are in regard to rabbinic ideas of the Messianic kingdom I believe. Not trying to be snarky at all Slibhin. Rabbinic teaching while I ultimately disagree with their outcomes, are of great benefit in understanding as well.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Anne2

[David1701]

17 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Well so what? The vast majority of Jews rejected him. Why do you give weight to the few apostates who did believe him and no weight to the vast majority who didn't? Because they believe what you believe? What a non-argument.

Your argument is "argumentum ad populum", which is a logical fallacy.

Calling those Jews who did (and do) believe in Jesus "apostates" is merely begging the question (another logical fallacy).  Upon what do you base that assertion?  It needs to be demonstrated, not assumed.

My point was not based on numbers, but on the fact that Jews did, and do, believe in Jesus as the promised Messiah, when you had claimed that none do.

Jesus clearly fulfilled the Messianic prophecies in the Tanakh; so, the question is: why do most Jews reject him?  It is because there is a veil over their hearts, when they read the Tanakh.  They put rabbinical traditions above the Holy Bible.

[Omegaman 3.0]

I don't know if how relevant this is, but it might be. It seems there was this fellow named Rapael Patai, who seems to have decent credentials. The wrote a book called The Messiah Texts. If not read it, only chapter 12 about the suffering messaih. If anyone is interested you can read a PDF of it, which I have made available here.

an excerpt:

The sufferings Israel must face in the days of the Messiah are temporary and transitory. They will last, according to the Talmudic view … seven years; a later Aggada … reduces this period to a mere forty-five days. The Messiah himself, on the other hand, must spend his entire life, from the moment of his creation until the time of his advent many centuries or even millennia later, in a state of constant and acute suffering.

Patai also says:

Despised and afflicted with unhealing wounds, he sits in the gates of Great Rome and winds and unwinds the bandages of his festering sores; as a Midrash expresses it, “pains have adopted him.” According to one of the most moving, and at the same time psychologically most meaningful, of all Messiah legends, God, when He created the Messiah, gave him the choice of whether or not to accept the sufferings for the sins of Israel. And the Messiah answered: “I accept it with joy, so that not a single soul of Israel should perish.” … In the later, Zoharic [i.e., mystical] formulation of this legend, the Messiah himself summons all the diseases, pains, and sufferings of Israel to come upon him, in order thus to ease the anguish of Israel, which otherwise would be unbearable.

you get the idea, you can decide if it is relevant.

Here is a screenshot of his creds in the book:

and if the table of contents:

 

Messiah texts.pdf

[Omegaman 3.0]

Also, I am curious to know, does anyone know it this is true:

The 17th century Jewish historian, Raphael Levi, admitted that long ago the rabbis used to read Isaiah 53 in synagogues, but after the chapter caused “arguments and great confusion” the rabbis decided that the simplest thing would be to just take that prophecy out of the Haftarah readings in synagogues. That’s why today when we read Isaiah 52, we stop in the middle of the chapter and the week after we jump straight to Isaiah 54.

That quote is from Isaiah 53, the Forbidden Chapter 

[Dave-regenerated]

44 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/debunking-the-forbidden-chapter-conspiracy

Since I've read all of Isaiah as has every Jew I know, the alleged conspiracy has failed.

You do not understand Isaiah 53 as being about Jesus because you are either wilfully blind or spiritually blind.  I suggest it is the latter.

I would recommend searching out Dr Robert Morey on Isaiah 53 and how the Jews deal with it.  I would give a link to a Youtube video but I don't recall where it is.  The earliest post AD Jews understood those Bible verses as pointing to the Messiah.  Denying that won't help your case.  

[NCAP]

18 minutes ago, Dave-regenerated said:

You do not understand Isaiah 53 as being about Jesus because you are either wilfully blind or spiritually blind.  I suggest it is the latter.

I would recommend searching out Dr Robert Morey on Isaiah 53 and how the Jews deal with it.  I would give a link to a Youtube video but I don't recall where it is.  The earliest post AD Jews understood those Bible verses as pointing to the Messiah.  Denying that won't help your case.  

Paul knew that the oracles of God were entrusted to Jews, not Gentiles.

[David1701]

3 hours ago, Slibhin said:

When people ask a question and then give what they think is the answer right after, it means they aren't interested in a discussion and only want to hear themselves talk.

You have answered my question however indirectly. You've made a non-argument because you have not demonstrated why the opinions of a handful of apostates is more valid then the vast majority of Jews ar the time.

I'm not going by the opinions of anyone, whether you consider them to be apostates or not.  I'm going by what the Holy Bible says, and it is inspired by God.

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You have no reason other then you just like thier opinions better. So what? If you're going to assert logical fallacies then you are also engaging in one, called "begging the fact".

Here is a link to a list of Messianic prophecies, in the Holy Bible, and their fulfilment in the Lord Jesus Christ.

https://truthsaves.org/prophecies/

 

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The topic of the thread is "witnessing to Jews". Jews are hostile to Christians because of their aggression towards us and other historical factors. We also don't like people trying to pilfer people from our community.

I hope you don't think that I'm being aggressive towards you.  That is certainly not my intention.

I'm not trying to pilfer anyone; in fact, the Bible teaches that, when a Gentile is saved by God, he is added to spiritual Israel.  Salvation is of the Jews.

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A very common theme I see here is belligerence when Jews like myself don't take what you say as proven fact by default. Then it's usually followed up by accusing us of being in denial, defiance or lying. Sometimes I even see mild antisemitism.

I'm not being belligerent (of course, we disagree; but that is not the same thing at all).

I hate anti-semitism and regard it as disgraceful and disgusting.  Some professing Christians can be anti-semitic; but they are not at all following Jesus, in this regard.

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If you're going to ask someone to turn their back on Hashem I'd suggest you make a stronger case then "I'm just right take my word for it you obstinate Jew!"

I am absolutely, unequivocally NOT asking you to turn your back on Hashem!  We believe in the only true God, who is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

I am asking you to look at biblical prophecies, to see their fulfilment in Jesus Christ.

Please have a look at the link I gave, re. the fulfilment of Messianic prophecies.