Witnessing to Jewish people

[Dave-regenerated]

2 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

You have been rude to many members here. There are better ways to get your point across.

I have not been rude at all.  It is possible to tell people they are wrong without it being taken as insulting.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

7 minutes ago, Dave-regenerated said:

I have not been rude at all.  It is possible to tell people they are wrong without it being taken as insulting.

Definitely a double standard going on here.  

[David1701]

23 hours ago, Dave-regenerated said:

You may have married one, but that's like saying you married a non practising muslim where spiritual reality is concerned.  Quite frankly, your attempt to claim that Isaiah 53 is not about the Messiah is laughable to any intelligent person.

Insight into what the Bible means is not a result of human intelligence.  Do not try to make this about intellect, since it is God who reveals spiritual truths.  It is one thing to show biblical evidence (that's fine), but it is quite another to imply that a poster is stupid.

I've also come across some people, of below average intelligence, who had spiritual insight from God; and, some people who think they have insight, who don't have a good heart.

1 Cor. 8:1-3 (WEB)

 1 Now concerning things sacrificed to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.
  2 But if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he doesn’t yet know as he ought to know.
  3 But if anyone loves God, the same is known by him.

[Anne2]

32 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

What's the relevance? Especially if you don't care what we think?

I usually do not speak on matters of the Tanakh or the Talmud unless I know the answer. As I understand it Malchizedek  was traditionally held to be Shem however this is not in the Torah and is based on early oral traditions.

Personally I don't care who Malchizedek was, and Hashem clearly didn't think it was very important we know either or that information would have been included.

Ok, I can see you are not interested

[NCAP]

11 hours ago, David1701 said:

Insight into what the Bible means is not a result of human intelligence.

  2 But if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he doesn’t yet know as he ought to know.

Just curious. Do you think Paul was stating an opinion about everyone's ignorance except for his own ignorance?

Edited October 19, 2022 by NCAP

[Selah7]

1 hour ago, NCAP said:

Just curious. Do you think Paul was stating an opinion about everyone's ignorance except for his own ignorance?

No, not at all.  In Ephesians 1:1, we see that Paul was a chosen vessel, “an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,” and Paul knew it.  Paul was called; actually, God knocked him off his horse to get his attention!  Here's Paul's reaction:

So he, trembling and astonished, said, "Lord, what do You want me to do?" Then the Lord said to him, "Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

- Acts 9:6 (NKJV)

See what I mean?

Selah

[Selah7]

17 minutes ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

Did God really knock Paul off his horse?

Thats interesting, where is that in scripture please?....I can’t find it,🙂

Acts 9:4...NIV.

Dear Rosie, it doesn’t matter whether or not Paul was on foot or on a horse. The point is that Paul was chosen by God.   Selah

[David1701]

13 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Implying that I am willfully defiant or stupid does not endear me whatsoever or incline me to give much weight to the person talking to me.

I didn't.

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I don't personally care if Jesus fulfills Christian's idea of Messianic prophecy. Judaism is very clear on what the requirements for one to be the messiah are, and they have not changed to my knowledge one iota in 2000+ years.

- The Messiah must be Jewish, obviously.

 

Jesus is Jewish.

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- The Messiah must be from the tribe of Judah and a descendent of David. Since Jesus allegedly had no father he could not inherit a tribe. Jewish law is very clear you inherit your tribe via your birth father. Even if you are adopted one second after you are born, you still keep your natural birth fathers tribe.

Jesus' legal father was Joseph.  Jesus was not adopted; and he was of the tribe of Judah.

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- The Messiah must reunite the Jewish people and restore the tribes. The Jewish people were not even scattered at the time Jesus lived, ergo he did not do this.

Jesus reunited the Jewish people spiritually (all those who believed in Him, that is).  It is a mistake to think that the restoration was supposed to be physical.

There is also the issue of prophecies sometimes being like mountain peaks, there can be large gaps between the mountains, although they appear close to distant observers.  This pertains to the first and second advents of the Messiah.

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- The Messiah must rebuild the temple. The temple was still standing when Jesus lived.

The temple Jesus rebuilt was the spiritual temple - the body of Christ - those who believe in Him.

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- The Messiah must establish world peace and bring knowledge of G-d to the world. Jesus did not do this.

Jesus is the Prince of Peace; and, all those who believe in Him, and are therefore in his kingdom, are in his peace and united, no matter what country them come from.

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Judaism has no concept of a second coming, virgin birth or original sin. A virgin birth has never been a part of Jewish Messianic prophecy and is not even in the Tanakh, Isaiah 7:14 is a mistranslation of "young girl".

The Tanakh certainly does have the concepts of the Lord's second coming, virgin birth and of original sin!

Is. 7:14 has not been mistranslated, since the Septuagint (translated by 70 Jewish scholars) has the word for "virgin" here.  It would not be much of a sign for a young woman who is not a virgin to give birth now, would it?

Original Sin

Gen. 2:16,17 (KJV)

 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
  17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

---Adam and Eve had become unclean.

Job 14:4 (KJV) Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

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Jesus dying for our sins also goes against G-d's own decree that human sacrifice is an abomination to him. Hashem also says we are each responsible for our own sins and cannot assume someone else's.

All the animal sacrifices, in the Tanakh, pointed to the Cross of Christ.  We are not to sacrifice people, but God sacrificed his only begotten Son, because, if he gave us all legal justice instead, we would all die, as the law of Moses demanded.  No-one keeps the law, since, if we break it in even one part, we have broken all of it.  God looks at the heart, not the outward appearance.

Jesus is the last Adam, the progenitor of a new humanity.  If he had not borne the sins and punishments due to us, on the Cross, then we would have had to bear them, in eternal punishment and outer darkness.

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Ezekiel 18:20 in the Tanakh:

The soul that sins, it shall die; a son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, and a father shall not bear the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

 

Yes, that's true, according to legal justice; but, praise God that he doesn't give us all legal justice!  We would all be doomed, if he did!  Salvation is by grace, through faith, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

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You will never ever ever ever convince me or any faithful Jew that G-d has changed or altered his covenant. Hashem has said, repeatedly, that he always keeps his word and his covenants are binding and eternal. To claim he has changed or altered a single letter of the Torah is a violation of his very nature and would make him into a liar. Unacceptable. Nowhere in the Tanakh does it say his covenant has an expiration date, nor does it ever say "Stay tuned for future additions".

The covenant of law is a ministry of condemnation.  If God had not given a New Covenant (see Ez. 36:26,27 and Jer. 31:31-34), then we would all be separated from God eternally.

Jer. 31:31-34 (KJV)

 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
  32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
  33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
  34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. 
 

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If you can reconcile this then I'm listening. If your answer is to insult me or imply we're all stupid/blind/willfully defiant/don't know our own beliefs then save your breath, I have no ears for that.

It's not a case of not knowing your own beliefs, nor of stupidity (I have seen no indication of either, in your posts).

We are all afflicted with a spiritual blindness, until the LORD opens our eyes, whether Jewish or Gentile, it makes no difference, since it is spiritual sight that is needed.

Edited October 19, 2022 by David1701
typo

[David1701]

2 hours ago, NCAP said:

Just curious. Do you think Paul was stating an opinion about everyone's ignorance except for his own ignorance?

No.

None of us knows everything, or anything like it; and, what we do know, we only know in part.

[JohnD]

Messiah brings true shalom to eretz:

John 14:27 (KJV)
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Not with the contemporary kingdoms of the world, not with rivals in life, not with hostile neighbors...

but shalom with Elohiym.

God is no longer at odds with those who believe in his Son.

Yeshuayahu 54:

7"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.		זבְּרֶ֥גַע קָטֹ֖ן עֲזַבְתִּ֑יךְ וּבְרַֽחֲמִ֥ים גְּדֹלִ֖ים אֲקַבְּצֵֽךְ:
8With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord.		חבְּשֶׁ֣צֶף קֶ֗צֶף הִסְתַּ֨רְתִּי פָנַ֥י רֶ֙גַע֙ מִמֵּ֔ךְ וּבְחֶ֥סֶד עוֹלָ֖ם רִֽחַמְתִּ֑יךְ אָמַ֥ר גֹּֽאֲלֵ֖ךְ יְהֹוָֽה:
9"For this is to Me [as] the waters of Noah, as I swore that the waters of Noah shall never again pass over the earth, so have I sworn neither to be wroth with you nor to rebuke you.		טכִּי־מֵ֥י נֹ֙חַ֙ זֹ֣את לִ֔י אֲשֶׁ֣ר נִשְׁבַּ֗עְתִּי מֵֽעֲבֹ֥ר מֵי־נֹ֛חַ ע֖וֹד עַל־הָאָ֑רֶץ כֵּ֥ן נִשְׁבַּ֛עְתִּי מִקְּצֹ֥ף עָלַ֖יִךְ וּמִגְּעָר־בָּֽךְ:
10For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.		יכִּ֚י הֶֽהָרִים֙ יָמ֔וּשׁוּ וְהַגְּבָע֖וֹת תְּמוּטֶ֑ינָה וְחַסְדִּ֞י מֵאִתֵּ֣ךְ לֹֽא־יָמ֗וּשׁ וּבְרִ֚ית שְׁלוֹמִי֙ לֹ֣א תָמ֔וּט אָמַ֥ר מְרַֽחֲמֵ֖ךְ יְהֹוָֽה: