No man has seen God?

[plo1988]

Genesis 32:30
King James Version
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

 

John 1:18
King James Version
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

I don't get it. Is Genesis saying that Jacob saw God face to face?

Hosea might say that it was an angel he wrestled with.

 

Hosea 12:3-4
King James Version
3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:

4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

 

Does Genesis clearly say that Jacob saw God face to face? How could no man have ever seen God? And wouldn't Adam have? God walked in the cool of the day in the garden and drove out Adam and Eve (unless I got that wrong). Was he just invisible the entire time in the garden when Adam looked? I don't know if it reads like that. Didn't God talk to Cain and Abel and put a mark on Cain? Wouldn't he have had to have done it invisibly for no man to have ever seen him? And again, by my estimation, it kind of says that Jacob saw God face to face. Did Jacob get it wrong when he named that place like he didn't see God?

[Michael37]

35 minutes ago, plo1988 said:

Genesis 32:30
King James Version
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

 

John 1:18
King James Version
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

I don't get it. Is Genesis saying that Jacob saw God face to face?

Hosea might say that it was an angel he wrestled with.

 

Hosea 12:3-4
King James Version
3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:

4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

 

Does Genesis clearly say that Jacob saw God face to face? How could no man have ever seen God? And wouldn't Adam have? God walked in the cool of the day in the garden and drove out Adam and Eve (unless I got that wrong). Was he just invisible the entire time in the garden when Adam looked? I don't know if it reads like that. Didn't God talk to Cain and Abel and put a mark on Cain? Wouldn't he have had to have done it invisibly for no man to have ever seen him? And again, by my estimation, it kind of says that Jacob saw God face to face. Did Jacob get it wrong when he named that place like he didn't see God?

Hi @plo1988

Good question (actually an F A Q )

Quote from the Believer's Bible Commentary.

There is a seeming paradox in the Bible with regard to the matter of seeing God. On the one hand, there are verses which indicate that it is impossible to see God (Exo_33:20; Joh_1:18; 1Jn_4:12). On the other hand, there are passages which speak of men seeing God, such as Gen_32:30; Exo_24:10; Exo_33:23. The explanation is that while God in His unveiled glory is a consuming fire which would vaporize anyone looking at Him, yet He can reveal Himself in the form of a man, an angel, or a glory cloud (Deu_5:24) which a person could see and still live.

[plo1988]

Exodus 24:10
King James Version
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

 

Maybe John 1:8 means seeing his face? If someone saw God's face they would die right?

[Michael37]

9 minutes ago, plo1988 said:

Exodus 24:10
King James Version
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

Maybe John 1:8 means seeing his face? If someone saw God's face they would die right?

The unveiled glory of God is too much for humans to see. We accept the Scripture by faith because we have no way of finding out.

Quote from Albert Barnes' Commentary on John 1:18

This passage is not meant to deny that men had witnessed “manifestations” of God, as when he appeared to Moses and the prophets (compare Num_12:8; Isa_6:1-13); but it is meant that no one has seen the essence of God, or has “fully known God.” The prophets delivered what they “heard” God speak; Jesus what he knew of God as his equal, and as understanding fully nature.

[plo1988]

Er, I don't get it. Does Genesis say that Jacob saw God face to face, like he saw his face? Or is it saying something else, like the meaning of the name of the place he named, while Jacob did NOT actually see God's face (if that's what it means to see someone face to face). If Jacob saw God's face that makes John 1:8 nonsense which means Jacob must have got it wrong when he named that place (according to John 1:8) if that's what the name means, meaning he never saw God face to face (if seeing someone face to face means you saw their face)... is that what it reads like though?

Does that make sense? Doesn't make sense that no man has ever seen God if Jacob saw him face to face (meaning he saw his face, if that's the correct meaning).

Edited October 5, 2022 by plo1988

[Michael37]

7 minutes ago, plo1988 said:

Er, I don't get it. Does Genesis say that Jacob saw God face to face, like he saw his face? Or is it saying something else, like the meaning of the name of the place he named, while Jacob did NOT actually see God's face (if that's what it means to see someone face to face). If Jacob saw God's face that makes John 1:8 nonsense which means Jacob must have got it wrong according to John 1:18 when he named that place if that's what the name means, meaning he never saw God face to face (if seeing someone face to face means you saw their face)... is that what it reads like though?

Does that make sense? Doesn't make sense that no man has ever seen God if Jacob saw him face to face (meaning he saw his face, if that's the correct meaning).

Unless God appears to us humans in a safe way, we will be consumed. We learn that God manifested as an Angel so that He could deal with Jacob. What Jacob saw was not the unveiled glory of God which is a consuming fire of infinite power and eternal duration, enough to blow our minds and vaporise us. God appeared as a man with a face so that He wouldn't destroy Jacob with His full glory.   

Hos 12:2-4  The LORD also brings a charge against Judah. He will punish Jacob according to his ways and repay him according to his deeds.  (3)  In the womb he grasped his brother’s heel, and in his vigor he wrestled with God.  (4)  Yes, he struggled with the angel and prevailed; he wept and sought His favor; he found Him at Bethel and spoke with Him there —

[missmuffet]

Has anyone ever seen God?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

The Bible tells us that no one has ever seen God (John 1:18) except the Lord Jesus Christ. In Exodus 33:20, God declares, “You cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” These Scriptures seem to contradict other Scriptures which describe various people “seeing” God. For example, Exodus 33:11 describes Moses speaking to God “face to face.” How could Moses speak with God “face to face” if no one can see God’s face and live? In this instance, the phrase “face to face” is a figure of speech indicating they were in very close communion. God and Moses were speaking to each other as if they were two human beings having a close conversation.

In Genesis 32:30, Jacob saw God appearing as a man; he did not truly see God. Samson’s parents were terrified when they realized they had seen God (Judges 13:22), but they had only seen Him appearing as an angel. Jesus was God in the flesh (John 1:1, 14) so when people saw Him, they were seeing God. So, yes, God can be “seen” and many people have “seen” God. At the same time, no one has ever seen God revealed in all His glory. In our fallen human condition, if God were to fully reveal Himself to us, we would be consumed and destroyed. Therefore, God veils Himself and appears in forms in which we can “see” Him. However, this is different than seeing God with all His glory and holiness displayed. People have seen visions of God, images of God, and appearances of God, but no one has ever seen God in all His fullness (Exodus 33:20).

Edited October 5, 2022 by missmuffet

[other one]

The problem with this subject is that when we see the word God/God, we do not understand the meaning of the word as was understood when the Bible was penned.

The God that the people of the old testament saw was YAHWEH. That was the preincarnate Jesus, not the Father.

The word God with a capitol G can refer to any of the three members of the trinity.  And remember that Hebrew does not have caps so the capitol G is used by the translators by the context of the scripture.

This also makes John 1:1 confusing.

[Who me]

6 hours ago, plo1988 said:

Genesis 32:30
King James Version
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

 

John 1:18
King James Version
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

I don't get it. Is Genesis saying that Jacob saw God face to face?

Hosea might say that it was an angel he wrestled with.

 

Hosea 12:3-4
King James Version
3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:

4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

 

Does Genesis clearly say that Jacob saw God face to face? How could no man have ever seen God? And wouldn't Adam have? God walked in the cool of the day in the garden and drove out Adam and Eve (unless I got that wrong). Was he just invisible the entire time in the garden when Adam looked? I don't know if it reads like that. Didn't God talk to Cain and Abel and put a mark on Cain? Wouldn't he have had to have done it invisibly for no man to have ever seen him? And again, by my estimation, it kind of says that Jacob saw God face to face. Did Jacob get it wrong when he named that place like he didn't see God?

 

It is called a Theophany, an appearance of Jesus.

 

Look at Iiaih 6:1 when he saw the lord high and mighty etc etc yet Jesus said in John 12:41 that he saw Jesus.

[Billiards Ball]

12 hours ago, plo1988 said:

Genesis 32:30
King James Version
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

 

John 1:18
King James Version
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

I don't get it. Is Genesis saying that Jacob saw God face to face?

Hosea might say that it was an angel he wrestled with.

 

Hosea 12:3-4
King James Version
3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:

4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

 

Does Genesis clearly say that Jacob saw God face to face? How could no man have ever seen God? And wouldn't Adam have? God walked in the cool of the day in the garden and drove out Adam and Eve (unless I got that wrong). Was he just invisible the entire time in the garden when Adam looked? I don't know if it reads like that. Didn't God talk to Cain and Abel and put a mark on Cain? Wouldn't he have had to have done it invisibly for no man to have ever seen him? And again, by my estimation, it kind of says that Jacob saw God face to face. Did Jacob get it wrong when he named that place like he didn't see God?

No one has seen Father God. Jesus, the Son, has come to explain and show who God is.

To be "saved" and have eternal life, you trust Jesus today for forgiveness of sin, and when He comes back for us, He will transform us that we can be in the Father's presence. Amen!