Could there be Multiple Raptures?

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Do they go to meet the Lord in the cloud?

All believers will be in the resurrection, which will be "in the air" or "in the cloud".

But that's not the issue.  The common view of "rapture" means a glorified trip to heaven.

But the Bible never describes such a trip.

If this forum does polls, why not have a poll on what people think the 'rapture' is?

[missmuffet]

40 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

All believers will be in the resurrection, which will be "in the air" or "in the cloud".

But that's not the issue.  The common view of "rapture" means a glorified trip to heaven.

But the Bible never describes such a trip.

If this forum does polls, why not have a poll on what people think the 'rapture' is?

That is a good idea 

[FreeGrace]

13 hours ago, missmuffet said:

That is a good idea 

Scripture is always a very good idea!  

[WilliamL]

On 11/21/2022 at 5:59 PM, FreeGrace said:

But that's not the issue.  The common view of "rapture" means a glorified trip to heaven.

But the Bible never describes such a trip.

Indeed it does. Rev. 7:9-14 and Heb. 12:18-28 are two examples.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Indeed it does. Rev. 7:9-14 and Heb. 12:18-28 are two examples.

I said this:  "But that's not the issue.  The common view of "rapture" means a glorified trip to heaven.

But the Bible never describes such a trip."

Rev 7-

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 

10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 

11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 

12 saying: “Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!” 

13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” 

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

No mention of a trip to heaven in a glorified body.  

v.9 describes people in heaven.  All saints who die go to heaven.

v.10-12 describe these saints as worshiping God.

v.13-14 explains that these saints "have come out of the tribulation".  It doesn't say they were resurrected into glorified bodies.

Heb 12-

18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 

19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 

20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.”

21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”

22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 

23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 

24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. 

25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 

26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”

27 The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain. 

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe,

Could you point out which verse(s) that describe Jesus taking resurrected/glorified believers to heaven?  I'm not seeing it.

Thanks.

[The Light]

On 11/12/2022 at 2:04 PM, FreeGrace said:

 

Then you said: "Isn't it interesting that Rev 14 starts with 144,000 first fruits and ends with a harvest?"

No, I see no connection between the 144K and the "harvest" (bloody) of the earth.

Then you are missing Jesus in clouds sending His angels to gather the elect from the earth. Beginning Revelation 14:14

On 11/12/2022 at 2:04 PM, FreeGrace said:

 

 

[The Light]

On 10/29/2022 at 5:53 PM, Vine Abider said:

I've read a couple interesting books lately, putting forth the idea of more than just one rapture. 

Interesting topic. I read most of the responses. Yes there will be more than one rapture. There will be a rapture of the Church before the seals are open when it is like the days of Noah. Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood even as the Church will be in heaven as we can see in Revelation 4 and 5 before the last 7 years. This rapture will occur at the trump of God, or voice of God

As for the second rapture, it will be like the days of Lot, where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. It will happen at the last trump, which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. It will be the 12 tribes across the earth that are raptured. As you pointed out, you have first fruits and then you have a harvest in Revelation 14. This rapture occurs at the 6th seal before the wrath of God. This is the coming Jesus in Matthew 24 immediately after the tribulation.

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, The Light said:

Then you are missing Jesus in clouds sending His angels to gather the elect from the earth. Beginning Revelation 14:14

 

Rev 14:14-20  The entire context for v.14

Harvesting the Earth and Trampling the Winepress

14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 

15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 

16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. 

17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 

18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 

19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 

20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

v.14 cannot be about any resurrection or gathering of those who are alive and remain on the earth.

v.15 tells us the purpose of the "sharp sickle" in v.14.  To "harvest the EARTH".  There is nothing about believers, saints, etc.  It's about the earth.

Then in v.17 we have an angel also with a sharp sickle, and v.18 has an angel telling this armed angel to gather the clusters of grapes from the EARTH.

v.19 is most telling:  the grapes that were harvested are thrown into "the great winepress of God's WRATH!"

And v.20 tells us the results of reaping the EARTH:  blood, blood, and more blood.

This passage is about what will take place at the battle of Armageddon.

There is nothing here about a "rapture".

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, The Light said:

Interesting topic. I read most of the responses. Yes there will be more than one rapture. There will be a rapture of the Church before the seals are open when it is like the days of Noah. Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood even as the Church will be in heaven as we can see in Revelation 4 and 5 before the last 7 years. This rapture will occur at the trump of God, or voice of God

As for the second rapture, it will be like the days of Lot, where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. It will happen at the last trump, which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. It will be the 12 tribes across the earth that are raptured. As you pointed out, you have first fruits and then you have a harvest in Revelation 14. This rapture occurs at the 6th seal before the wrath of God. This is the coming Jesus in Matthew 24 immediately after the tribulation.

In fact, there will be NO "rapture", if by that word one means a trip to heaven in a glorified body.  There is no mention of such a trip to heaven anywhere in the Bible.

Further, the Bible teaches plainly that there be just one resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved.  Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15.

1 Cor 15:23 and 2 Thess 2:1 tell us when the singular resurrection of the saved (those who belong to Him) will be:  "when He comes".  Every reference to the "coming of the Lord" is a reference to the Second Advent, since the OT prophesies about the Messiah's TWO advents.  First advent as a baby to become the Suffering Servant and second advent as King of kings and Lord of lords.  That's it;  just two advents.

Rev 20:4-6 tells us plainly that the first resurrection (of the saved at the Second Advent) will be 1,000 years before the second resurrection (of the unsaved).

 

[Vine Abider]

27 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Rev 14:14-20  The entire context for v.14

There is nothing here about a "rapture".

So is your contention that no souls are caught up to the clouds to meet the Lord in the air?