Could there be Multiple Raptures?

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I"m going to jump in here even though your post wasn't addressed to me.  When the Lord comes to resurrect all believers, do you really believe that any believer will "wish to remain behind"?  And even if there are some really stupid believers who would wish that, do you really think the Lord will 'honor that'?  Are you serious.

Actually EVERY part of the pre-trib rapture doesn't make sense.  It requires multiple resurrections, and the Bible is clear there is only one for the saved.  So there's that.

And, most importantly, there are NO verses that describe Jesus taking any glorified believers to heaven.  So there's that.

Finally, EVERY verse about "the coming of the Lord" is technical for the Second Advent, since the OT prophesied of ONLY 2 advents or comings of the Lord.  

I believe Hebrews 9:28 tells us, He will appear the second time [only] to those who are looking for His coming or expecting Him. I have often wondered how those that are looking for the Antichrist first or expecting to see the Antichrist first, will fit this verse - which side they will be on.

The OT never saw Paul being sent to the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. It is strictly a NT event, that was a secret not revealed to OT prophets.

It seems that God waited a sufficient time after Christ's resurrection to see if the leaders (perhaps the Sanhedrin?) or perhaps the majority of the masses would accept Jesus and their Messiah. They did not. I believe that is when God put blindness in part on Israel and sent Paul to the Gentiles.

Therefore, there is very little, if anything, in the gospels or even in Revelation that fits the Gentile church. We have the epistles of Paul. I picture the church age (the dispensation of Grace started for Paul) as an insert as a parenthesis into the Jewish timeline. If Israel had accepted Jesus after He rose from the dead, I believe their 70th week would be history by now.

In short, the rapture of the church of today, mostly a Gentile church,  written only in Paul's letters, will come just before Wrath or the Day of His wrath [the 6th seal]. God will begin the Day of His wrath before he begins with 70th week.  This is put the entire 70th week inside the Day of the Lord.  Jesus coming to Armageddon will come after their 70th week.

The DAY is for both Jews and Gentiles. The 70th week is for the Jews.

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EVERY verse about "the coming of the Lord" is technical for the Second Advent

I think the truth is, His coming for His bride, the coming Paul wrote of, will be pre-trib. The other comings, Matthew 24 and Revelation 19, will be His THIRD coming. Therefore I must disagree with you here.

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It requires multiple resurrections, and the Bible is clear there is only one for the saved.  So there's that.

There will be multiple resurrections, even for the righteous. The dead in Christ will be the next (After Jesus was the firstfruits) then the OT saints will be after the Week so about seven years later, "on the last day" of the 70th week, so at the 7th vial.

I believe the martyrs and the Two Witnesses will be raised with the OT saints. The bible is clear on these two!  Don't be lead astray by the KJV use of "first" as in first resurrection. "Chief" or "most honorable" would be a better translation. There is no time limitation to that resurrection for the righteous. Jesus was the firstfruits of this resurrection, the Dead in Christ will be second, and finally all the rest will be third -  but all will be under that resurrection for the righteous.

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there are NO verses that describe Jesus taking any glorified believers to heaven.  

I believe John 14 will suffice for that. Paul did not give a direction after the saints meet Jesus in the air - but I believe John 14 answers that. Jesus said, "where I am, there will you be also."

Where "am" Jesus all through the 70th week? He will remain in heaven as proven by Revelation 19.

It makes GOOD sense that God would remove His people before His wrath comes.
It makes GOOD sense that God would, therefore, tell us when Wrath will begin.
It makes GOOD sense that God would take His bride to a place of safely.
It makes GOOD sense that we  will be part of those armies from heaven that will return with Him.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Alive said:

This grieves me. Does a lack of correct understanding change what God has intended? Does it change His gaurantee that what has been sealed will not end with the guarantee promised by the sealing?

2Cor. 1:22 (NKJVS) who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Eph. 1:13 (NKJVS)   In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Eph. 4:30 (NKJVS) And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Is being "born again" an automatic guarantee for a free flight to heaven with the church? I don't think so. I think the rapture, just like anything else we get from heaven, must come by FAITH. What do I mean? If someone has strong faith that they will see the man of sin be revealed, will God go against their faith - or will He given them what they are believing for?

Being left behind will not make them "un_saved." It only means they will be a target for the Antichrist.

I really hope I am wrong, but I take Hebrews 9:28 very seriously. I will remain LOOKING for Him - expecting His coming any day. I have ZERO faith that I will see the Antichrist.

[farouk]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Is being "born again" an automatic guarantee for a free flight to heaven with the church? I don't think so. I think the rapture, just like anything else we get from heaven, must come by FAITH. What do I mean? If someone has strong faith that they will see the man of sin be revealed, will God go against their faith - or will He given them what they are believing for?

Being left behind will not make them "un_saved." It only means they will be a target for the Antichrist.

I really hope I am wrong, but I take Hebrews 9:28 very seriously. I will remain LOOKING for Him - expecting His coming any day. I have ZERO faith that I will see the Antichrist.

I would see that the question is whether a person has been born again truly, rather than whether there is a so called partial rapture.........

[iamlamad]

57 minutes ago, farouk said:

I would see that the question is whether a person has been born again truly, rather than whether there is a so called partial rapture.........

Then we should consider these words: Holiness without which no man will see the Lord. Some people get born again as fire insurance, then never make any effort to live for God. Yet, I think they were sincere and were born again. 
Thank for for His robe of righteousness!

[Alive]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Is being "born again" an automatic guarantee for a free flight to heaven with the church?

Yes--I do believe this is the case. I don't believe there is any such dividing of the Body of Christ.

All who are in Christ of the Father are One and will experience the same resurrection--both those in the grave and those who remain alive at the Lord's Return.

[farouk]

Just now, iamlamad said:

Then we should consider these words: Holiness without which no man will see the Lord. Some people get born again as fire insurance, then never make any effort to live for God. Yet, I think they were sincere and were born again. 
Thank for for His robe of righteousness!

I do love Philippians 1.6: "...He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ..."

[iamlamad]

57 minutes ago, Alive said:

Yes--I do believe this is the case. I don't believe there is any such dividing of the Body of Christ.

All who are in Christ of the Father are One and will experience the same resurrection--both those in the grave and those who remain alive at the Lord's Return.

I hope you are right, but I believe there is a flip side to Hebrews 9:28. The flip side being those that are NOT "looking for His coming."

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, George said:

@AdHoc  I appreciate your views, however, I would disagree with the idea that the Wedding is AFTER the Wedding Feast.  

It appears you believe that the Wedding Feast is during the Mill. Reign for 1000 years and the Wedding is AFTER the 1000 years when the Bride is ready.

I believe all through Revelation when John writes of an event, the timing is right then at the timing of that verse. When John wrote, "is come" it means right then, at that point in John's timeline. 

In Revelation 19, the 70th week has finished (at the 7th vial). The city of Jerusalem is under attack, but mostly destroyed by fire and earthquake and the millions of troops there determined to erase the city forever. 

All the saints, OT and NT alike, are there in heaven in resurrection bodies. Then it is time for the marriage. 

AFter the marriage then it is time for the marriage supper: right then, before Jesus gets on the white horse.

Both the marriage and the supper will be done and over with before Jesus comes to Armageddon. This is how I read it.

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I hope you are right, but I believe there is a flip side to Hebrews 9:28. The flip side being those that are NOT "looking for His coming."

A thought or two for consideration, brother.

Heb. 9:28 (NAS20S) so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

When He returns for His own, sin has already been dealt with as our sins are under the blood. Who among the truly Born from above, do not look for His coming? Even those who may be temporarily discouraged and confused, remain His sons. He is the Great Shepherd and will lose none of His. We have many like promises.

That salvation mentioned is the final manifestation of what was promised and 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit...a guarantee of the covenant. You need not fear, brother. Trust Him. He is at work in you and the Day of the Lord will reveal what you are.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

A thought or two for consideration, brother.

Heb. 9:28 (NAS20S) so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

When He returns for His own, sin has already been dealt with as our sins are under the blood. Who among the truly Born from above, do not look for His coming? Even those who may be temporarily discouraged and confused, remain His sons. He is the Great Shepherd and will lose none of His. We have many like promises.

That salvation mentioned is the final manifestation of what was promised and 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit...a guarantee of the covenant. You need not fear, brother. Trust Him. He is at work in you and the Day of the Lord will reveal what you are.

I have never been a post-trib believer, so I cannot know if, while having strong faith that I will see the Antichrist first, I would still be Looking for His coming....
TOMORROW!
I hope all believers are looking for and expecting Him TONIGHT.