Hiding in caves

[OneLight]

4 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

Jesus said when they see these thing, their redemption is near. 

144000 are redeemed. 

 

You don't pay attention to Christ's words very well. Do you have some sort of learning impairment? 

I pay closer attention to what Jesus said.  The difference between us is that I don't allow my imagination to take me places His words do not say like you do.  We can "assume" all day long with what scripture might mean, yet what we assume it means does not replace scripture.

It's funny to me that you question my learning abilities while you have twisted scripture to fulfill your theology worse than any pretzel I've ever see.  Some of your ideas are so far out there we need a GPS to keep track of them.

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, David1701 said:

Context, context, context...

There are different kinds of redemption.

1) Redemption from sin, Satan and hell, which was accomplished on the cross, and is applied when someone believes in Jesus Christ.

2) The redemption of our mortal bodies, which occurs at the resurrection.

3) In the context of Luke 21:28, what is referred to is redemption from persecution by unbelieving Jews, who were going to be slaughtered by the Roman army.

According to the context context context 

Jesus said they will be persecuted and many would be put to death. But now your saying they are not persecuted. 

Luke 21:13

But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name.

According to the context the end follows their persecution. 

According to the context, they are redeemed at the time of  wrath. After their persecution. After the tribulation of those days. 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

4 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I pay closer attention to what Jesus said.  The difference between us is that I don't allow my imagination to take me places His words do not say like you do.  We can "assume" all day long with what scripture might mean, yet what we assume it means does not replace scripture.

It's funny to me that you question my learning abilities while you have twisted scripture to fulfill your theology worse than any pretzel I've ever see.  Some of your ideas are so far out there we need a GPS to keep track of them.

You didn't even know where scripture says the 144000 are redeemed. I had to show you. That's a sign of a learning impairment when you read the same things over and over and over and can't remember anything. 

You should know these things by heart after as many years as you've spent reading them. You should have the gospels and Revelation memorized by now. There's something wrong. 

[Selah7]

Hey Shiloh . . .

First of all, the 144,000 are not the Elect.  The 144,000 are redeemed (converted) from the earth.  They are not defiled with women and are virgins.  In other words they are not deceived by the deception of the “great harlot of Babylon.”  They are redeemed (converted) when the Elect are delivered up and the Holy Spirit speaks through them (Mark 13:11), whereby God’s Word is broadcast to the whole world, and this happens in the 6th trump.  Then the sealing will be complete.

Selah

[OneLight]

27 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

You didn't even know where scripture says the 144000 are redeemed. I had to show you. That's a sign of a learning impairment when you read the same things over and over and over and can't remember anything. 

You should know these things by heart after as many years as you've spent reading them. You should have the gospels and Revelation memorized by now. There's something wrong. 

No you didn't have to show me anything.  I asked you to provide scripture to your specific words claiming scripture says what you claim it says and you don't, you just give scripture where you read into it and come out with your own understanding, which is not scripture, but your idea of what it says.  As I have said, you follow your own theology, even when it is not found in scripture.  You make it up as you go, if it satisfies you.  Good luck with that as you will have to stand accountable for your own words.

[Shilohsfoal]

34 minutes ago, OneLight said:

No you didn't have to show me anything.  I asked you to provide scripture to your specific words claiming scripture says what you claim it says and you don't, you just give scripture where you read into it and come out with your own understanding, which is not scripture, but your idea of what it says.  As I have said, you follow your own theology, even when it is not found in scripture.  You make it up as you go, if it satisfies you.  Good luck with that as you will have to stand accountable for your own words.

You said where did Jesus say that because you didn't know where scripture said the 144000 are redeemed. 

Then I show you two verses that show the 144000 are redeemed. 

That's all revelation shows being redeemed. 

So the people you claimed are redeemed in 70 AD can only be the 144000 which are the first fruits. 

Your problem is the time of their redemption has yet to arrive and that destroys you false teaching. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

According to the context context context 

Jesus said they will be persecuted and many would be put to death. But now your saying they are not persecuted. 

Luke 21:13

But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name.

According to the context the end follows their persecution. 

According to the context, they are redeemed at the time of  wrath. After their persecution. After the tribulation of those days. 

 

 

 

When Jesus spoke, they were going to be persecuted future to that time (i.e. within the next few decades) and many would be put to death (this happened), then the end came (the end of the Old Covenant and of serious persecution by the Jewish authorities), when the Roman army obliterated a huge number of Jews, at Masada.  This was after the disciples' persecution and the tribulation of those days.

Edited November 8, 2022 by David1701

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

You said where did Jesus say that because you didn't know where scripture said the 144000 are redeemed. 

Then I show you two verses that show the 144000 are redeemed. 

That's all revelation shows being redeemed. 

So the people you claimed are redeemed in 70 AD can only be the 144000 which are the first fruits. 

Your problem is the time of their redemption has yet to arrive and that destroys you false teaching.

Maybe I should of been more specific in my question.  I was not asking about the 144,000 being redeemed.  I was asking about your claim that Jesus said they see those things spoken of in Luke 21:21-23.

8 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Seeing the 144000 are those that are redeemed, you wouldn't happen to know the exact date of their redemption would you? Jesus said they would see those things in luke 21:21-23 fulfilled. 

The 144,000 will follow Jesus everywhere He goes (Revelation 14:1-5) yet you say they will see the fulfillment of Luke 21:21-24.  How can they see this fulfilled if they are not present.  You must then be saying that Jesus will also be there at this time also because they follow Jesus wherever He goes, and nothing else.

That is the problem I have.  Jesus does not tell us these things, yet you do.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

When Jesus spoke, they were going to be persecuted future to that time (i.e. within the next few decades) and many would be put to death (this happened), then the end came (the end of the Old Covenant and of serious persecution by the Jewish authorities), when the Roman army obliterated a huge number of Jews, at Masada.  This was after the disciples' persecution and the tribulation of those days.

So your saying they were delivered from persecution after they are persecuted. 

Then they went into persecution by the Romans after being delivered from persecution. 

Doesn't really make any sense. Then again, Jesus never said they would be delivered from persecution. Your the only person I've ever heard say that Christ's followers are delivered from persecution. 

 

 

Luke 21:10-11

Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

 

Now this also coresponds to revelation 6.The great earthquake and the heavens departing as a scroll rolled together. 

According to revelation, this is when they are redeemed as Jesus said they would in Luke 21:28

Luke 21:28

When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Edited November 9, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

Maybe I should of been more specific in my question.  I was not asking about the 144,000 being redeemed.  I was asking about your claim that Jesus said they see those things spoken of in Luke 21:21-23.

The 144,000 will follow Jesus everywhere He goes (Revelation 14:1-5) yet you say they will see the fulfillment of Luke 21:21-24.  How can they see this fulfilled if they are not present.  You must then be saying that Jesus will also be there at this time also because they follow Jesus wherever He goes, and nothing else.

That is the problem I have.  Jesus does not tell us these things, yet you do.

Scripture says they follow the Lamb everywhere he goes. Jesus does not have to be in Israel with them as they are doing everything he tells them to do in the gospel. They are given the holy spirit and they will be redeemed when Christ comes. 

Jesus Is speaking directly to his elect throughout the gospel. The apostles just wrote down what he said. 

Everything Jesus says in the gospel the 144000 do. 

Mathew 10:23

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

 

Jesus Is talking about his return here, and the apostles wrote it down. But he is telling the 144000 (his elect) what they will do before he comes. 

And they do everything he says. They are following every word. 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Shilohsfoal