The Seventh Trumpet and the Period It Heralds

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, not an echo said:

Hello Revelation Man,

I'm still not sure if I am understanding you.  If you are counting the "tribulation" Jesus is speaking of in Matthew 24:29 as "God's Wrath",  then God's wrath is over.  Next is the "And then " of which you say there will be the "1260 days later" till the appearance of "the sign of the Son of man in heaven" (Matt. 24:30).  Is this what you are saying?

Yes, let me walk it down for you. The Rev. 8 Asteroid strikes the earth, this is God's Wrath against an evil mankind. Only at THIS POINT is the Man of Sin allowed to go forth conquering, not a day sooner, since he rules for 1260 days that means this event (DOTL) has to happen in the middle of the week. 

Now for the Walk Down: I find making thing visual helps some.

The Asteroid comes through the skies breaking apart and setting fires as sulfur fireballs fall, the trees and grasses (and houses but in 1/3 of the world (I think the New World burns up) Trump #1. Then the IMPACT COMES in Trump #2, its seen like an Earthquake, well yea !! Then the Fallout from the Impact poisons 1/3 of the fresh waters (again, I think the New World is the 1/3) and that is Trump #3. Now LASTLY the Sun and Moon go dim by 1/3 THIS is the even Jesus is speaking about when he says the Sun and Moon goes dark in Matt. 24:29. Gods Wrath is not finished yet, the TROUBLES are nit finished yet, so Jesus is not coming back just yet !! BUT........As we saw above IMMEDIATLY AFTER the Troubles come the Sun and Moon grs DIM, you guys can't seem to divide these timelines up correctly, Prophecy is FAR AWAY from the author, so Gid gives them understandings that are not all bunched into one tight paragraph. 

Its pretty simply, just after the troubles COME (Asteroid Impact) the Sun and moon will go dim or be darkened. But all we have tp do is read and we can see Jesus is nit coming back at that very moment. The other three Trumps have to bring the Three Woes!! The 5th Trump brings the First Woe which lasts 5 months in and of itself, then we get the 6th Trump/2nd Woe where 1/3 of all men who have the Mark of the Beast are slain. Then we get the 7th Trump which is the 3rd Woe which is all 7 Vials. So, Vials 1-5 happen, then at the 6th Vial the Beast/False Prophet/Satan trick the kings of the WHOLE WORLD to come against God at the battle of Armageddon, then at the 7th Vial Jesus returns. Now do you see why Matt. 24:30 says and THEN ? See how Matt. 24:29 is the 4th Trump and Matt. 24:30 uses THEN........LATER ON........ and by using then it means at the 7th Vial when Jess returns. 

In Matt. 24 Jesus is not giving us the book of Revelation, he's not giving us the DETAILS so to speak, just a framework of what is coming. Immediately after the troubles [come] the sun and moon goes dim/dark.  And THEN.............Jesus will return, we just do nit get all of the Rev.9 and Rev. 16 details, but Jesus doesn't show up IMMDIALY AFTER the troubles start, the sun and moon goes dim immediately after the troubles come, Jesus comes 1260 days later, that is what THEN means. 

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, not an echo said:

We may express it a little differently, but if I am understanding you correctly, we are in agreement that the Day of the Lord, or "the great day of His wrath" is not just one day, but a period of time.  Kinda like the difference between Monday (a singular day/strict sense) and the day of the computer (era, period, or age/broad sense).

Yes indeed. 

12 hours ago, not an echo said:

I certainly agree with you that the "Seals are not Judgments".  Concerning the rest, consider this:  We are in agreement that what is in the scroll cannot be seen until all the seals are removed.  Because of what John sees with the opening of each one, these seals on the outside of the scroll can easily represent those things leading up to what is contained therein.  Moreover, the first five parallel what Jesus told the pillars of His Church in the opening section of His Olivet Discourse (e.g., Matt. 24:4-12)---things that have characterized the era of the Church since its founding and even unto our day.

 

This is another dissertation of sorts that throws people off. Many people wrongly see the "Earthquakes", "Pestilences", "Kings vs. kings" "ethos vs. ethos", "famines" etc. as being the Seals, when the Seals do nothing for starters, and "these things" are from the Church Age and they only BIRTH what Jesus called "THE END" which meant the 70th week and coming Kingdom Age, thus when the disciples asked him about his coming and the end of the world in verse three they actually asked about the "AIOS" (end of the Age) because they understood a new Kingdom Age would be brought in by their Messiah when he came at the very end. "These things" are not 70th week events my brother, they are Church Age events, and get this, in the last 5 years I have come to see that this first part of the chapter,  Matthew 24:4-14, is just Jesus giving his Disciples a ROADMAP to survival in his absence. I want to give you a few concepts and how Jesus foresaw (of course, SMILE) the coming dangers and gave his disciples a failproof guide, first I need to show the Landmines they faced to give you a visual concept.

If the Disciples had rushed back in the lead up to 70 AD thinking Jesus had returned they would have all be killed, and the Churches who followed them would have been wiped out, thus the Church would have never gotten off the ground. Satan's favorite plan has always been to wipe out Israel and now-a-days the Church !! So, Jesus wanted his Disciples to know the 70th week was not going to happen during their lifetimes, so in verse 14 he gives them a foolproof prophecy about the Gospel being preached unto the ends of the earth, and only then could "THE END" come (70th week). He also tells them about the many Famines, Wars, Earthquakes etc. to EMPHASIZE the 70th week was much, much later on, IMHO, "these things" are not that important to the chapter tbh,  Jesus was just trying to emphasize the 70th week was WAY ON DOWN THE ROAD !! Do not return to Jerusalem when you hear of these rumors of wars !! (Satan wanted them to come, and to bring their Churches thinking Jesus had returned !! So he could wipe the Church out.)

In verses 9-11 Jesus basically tells the Disciples they were all going to die as Martyrs (save John). He prepared them so they would not become another "Judas who betrayed their faith" when times got hard. Thus when he says you must ENDURE until the end he is speaking about the end of their lives !! Not the end times !! Lastly, Jesus gives them a fool proof understanding of when THE END (70th week) would come in verse 14. Only when the the Gospel had been preached unto ALL THE WORLD, only at that time, would the end come (70th week). The Disciples knew about India, China and the Scythians (modern day Russia) so they knew they would never see the coming of Jesus because they knew they would not see those nations preached unto un full during their lifetimes, thus when 70 AD rolled around they were not deceived into believing the rumors that the Messiah had showed up. When they got betrayed and were murdered they never betrayed their faith like Judas did. Now knowing this lets look at Matt. 24:3-14 again. The false christs in verses 4-6 were messianic figures the Pharisees put forth, fulfilling John 5:43. The false prophets in verses 9-11 were not Christians, but the Zeus/Jupiter priests and other priests of other false god worshiping, they were all losing their patrons to the Gospel in this culture war (read the Return of the Gods by Jonathan Chan) and thus they cried to Rome, that's why the Christians started being slain !! And of course when this happened, a lot of "Christians" betrayed their brothers via the pressure put on them by the Romans. 

Lets go over Matt. 24:3-14 verse by verse.

Matt. 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?(Temples Destruction) and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (AION or age)?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you(see he starts off by giving them a hint, do not be TRICKED, then by laying out a foolproof dissertation for them.)

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ(70 AD fulfilling John 5:43) ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars(70 AD): see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.(The 70th week is by and by or LATER ON. Then we get Jesus filling in the blanks in verse 7, to try and make the Disciples visualize how much is yet to come. Jesus did this so they would not go to Jerusalem in 70 AD or in 66-70 AD. Verse 7 is just DESCRIPTORS unto the Disciples to give them a visual of how long it would be before "The End or 70 week would come". )

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows (Birth Pangs only deliver the Baby or 70th week they are not THE BABY the Pangs STOP at the birth of the baby, of course).

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you (by telling his Disciples this YEARS in advance they would be prepared to die thus they ENDURED to the end of their lives): and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended(once Rome put the pressure on, the true Christians stood out, the fakes betrayed the Disciples), and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many(The Zeus, Jupiter types are being spoken of here).

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end (of "ONES LIFE", Paul said we must run the FULL RACE), the same shall be saved (unlike Judas).

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

So, they were told in verse 6, HEY..........the end is much later on, don't fall for the fake Messiahs the Pharisees put forth to try and save them, the 70th week is MUCH LATER ON, as a matter of fact only after the Gospel has been preached unto all the whole world will the 70th week end be upon the world.

Thus Matt. 24:4-14 has absolutely nothing to do with the 70th week troubles, now Matthew 24:15-30/31 is indeed the 70th week. But it only come after the Pre Trib Rapture. (Verse 14). This is simply Jesus showing his disciples ho to avoid "Land Mines".

Getting late, finish the rest later.

God Bless.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Revelation Man

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

But it only come after the Pre Trib Rapture.

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, it's the invention of John N. Darby 1830's and promoted by C.I. Scofield's 1909 reference Bible, better known as dispensationalism

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, not an echo said:

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Well, I thought we might be on a roll, but with Chapters 4 and 5 and Chapter 6 you got stuck on the "32 AD",  which is in glaring conflict with the "hereafter" of Revelation 4:1.

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Let's look:

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Question: DID God show John things in his future? Indeed he did—many things.

Where you and many others miss it: many people imagine John said ONLY things hereafter. Sorry, no "only" in that verse. 

Was the original war in heaven, where Satan was cast out and took a third of the angels with him—12:4—history to John? Certainly it was. That happened sometime before God created Adam.

Was the event where Herod tried to kill Jesus as a young boy—12:4—history to John in 95 AD when he saw this vision? Certainly it was. 

Therefore, there is no way God meant Rev. 4:1 to be ONLY things in the future. God fully meant to include some snippets of history along with the hereafter things.

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, not an echo said:

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What you say about Jesus being "not found worthy to take the book in the first search" is upsetting.  He was very much worthy before the foundation of the world!  Moreover, John's position of Jesus would have been that He was very much worthy!  We have already been through this and you just need to back up.  John's invite and what he observed was in real time.  It would have been ludicrous for him to have "wept much" (Rev. 5:4) if in his mind Jesus was also in the number of those being found not worthy.  Are you thinking that he was seeing Jesus as also not worthy?  At the time John was given his invite (Rev. 4:1), he had done written his account of the Gospel and I, II, and III John.  Do you think he got amnesia while in the throne room?  So, why did he weep?  I would suggest that it was because no one who had Adam for a father was found worthy---not Seth, not Noah, not Abraham, Job, or Daniel, not even he himself was "found worthy".  I can imagine that if we were in the presence of God and His glory and the glory of all there is to behold in Heaven that we would have a good cry ourselves over our corrupted fallen condition.  I'm not even in the proximity of buying into your take on why he was crying.  Just because he wasn't seeing "the Lamb" yet did not mean the Lamb wasn't there!  At this event that John was given an invite to, when it was time for the Lamb to make His entrance, He made His entrance!  Be it known, He was there all the while---and every one and all the hosts of Heaven knew it.  I can almost imagine them anticipating what John's reaction would be when he saw the Lamb.

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I think you simply don't understand. What if, written on the outside of the Book, the qualifications for who would be worthy to take the book and open the seals read "Any man who can rise from the dead under his own power and escape from hell,  to become the Redeemer of Mankind will be qualified to open the seals.

We should ask, WHEN exactly did Jesus become our "Redeemer?" I submit, He had to be born of a virgin, live without sin, offer Himself freely with no bitterness over how He was treated, die, and then raise from the dead. If any steps were left out, He would not have been our Redeemer. Paul wrote that if Jesus didn't raise from the dead, we are still in our sins. It took EVERY STEP for Jesus to become our Redeemer.

Did you not read?

5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

What did Jesus prevail over to become our Redeemer? He prevailed over all temptation, and He prevailed over death by rising from the dead.

Take a close look at verse 9: "Thou wast slain and hast redeemed us." does that that phrase INCLUDE the resurrection, though not mentioned? If Jesus had not risen, we are still in our sins.  Notice the preposition, "for..." John is showing us HOW He became worthy. If He had never risen from the dead, He would never have been found worthy and we would never have the hope of the resurrection.

In other words, Jesus HAD to become our Redeemer before He was found worthy.

When God was teaching me these two chapters, His first words were, "it shows TIMING." His next words, "It also shows the movement of time."

We see that movement from a time before Christ rose from the dead, and NOT found worthy, to a time after Christ rose from the dead and then FOUND worthy.

God's purpose in chapters 4 & 5 is to provide a CONTEXT to the opening of the seals. Jesus rose from the dead, ascended, then sent the Holy Spirit down, then got the Book and began opening the seals. When? Around 32 AD.

John's position in the first search was, apparently, it had to be a man, for he wrote, "no man was found..." He had no idea WHAT man would be found. It was probably around 95 AD and in His mind, Jesus had already ascended long before.  At the time of the vision when he was first introduced to the scroll, I doubt he know anything about the book or scroll. That would come as the vision unfolded. We should remember, John did not write AS the vision was seen. He saw all the vision, then wrote it all down. In short, while the search was ongoing, John has no idea is was a search for Jesus.

Someone ask me, WHERE was Jesus during that first search? I answered with a question: did He just disappear for that time? Where was Jesus? I submit, He was UNDER the earth but had not yet risen from the dead, so of course was not YET found. It is written that He "prevailed" to become worthy. What did Jesus prevail over that no man before Him had? I believe He prevailed over DEATH.

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John's invite and what he observed was in real time.

Perhaps when John saw the open door it was real time. I suspect that too was part of the vision. When John saw the throne room, that was in the vision. Had it been real time (perhaps 95 AD) John would have seen what Stephen had seen: The Father on the throne and Jesus at His right hand. 

This is NOT what John saw. He saw the Father on the throne but Jesus was NOT THERE at His right hand.

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Are you thinking that he was seeing Jesus as also not worthy? 

I doubt He was even THINKING about Jesus. The last He knew, Jesus had ascended in front of the disciples.  All he knew was, he had watched this angel conduct a search and "no man was found." I doubt John was allowed to read what was on the outside of the book, or he would have written it.

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So, why did he weep? 

He wept because he seemed to know the great importance of getting that book opened, but during this first search he had watched, "no man was found." This tells me that somehow he knew it had to be a man.  In other words, God the FAther, God the Holy Spirit, or God the preincarnate Word, could not open those seals: it had to be a man.

God wanted to introduce John to this book with seven seals. God CHOSE to begin the vision while the book was still with the Father. Because of that, God had to begin the vision at a time before Christ ascended, for the moment He ascended, He took the book from the Father. HOW was God going to show, in a vision, a time before Christ rose? He showed John a throne room with Christ missing, a search for one worthy that failed, and the Holy Spirit still there in the throne room.

Then, TIME passed, Jesus rose from the dead, was found worthy, ascended to heaven, sent the Holy Spirit down, took the book, and began opening the seals.

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Just because he wasn't seeing "the Lamb" yet did not mean the Lamb wasn't there! 

God was CREATING this vision. We can be SURE God created it EXACTLY the way He wanted it.  You can IMAGINE Jesus was there but not seen, but that is silly: the book is HIS REVEALING!  If He was there, of course He would be seen.  If we read ahead in chapter 5, there is PROOF He was not there: for John saw Him suddenly appear and send the Holy Spirit down.

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Be it known, He was there all the while---

You and I both KNOW there was 32 years when He was NOT THERE in heaven! The very fact that John saw Him suddenly appear is proof he was NOT there before. As further proof, when John saw Him, it was as a Lamb having been slain. I take that to mean, it was shortly after His death. He probably LOOKED like a lamb slain. However, He was  STANDING,  which shows us a lamb risen from the dead.

I think you are missing the MAIN POINT of these two chapters: to establish the context of the seals, to set the proper time. God's intent here was to show a time BEFORE Christ rose, to a time AFTER He rose, to establish that the first seal was opened around 32 AD.

"It shows timing."
"It also shows the movement of time."
"Son, I am going to asked you 3 questions on this passage. Until you can answer them correctly, you are never going to understand it."

1: "Why was I not immediately seen at the right hand of the Father? There are over a dozen verses telling us that is where I should have been."
2. "Why was I not found in that first search John watched?. That is the very reason John wept much. Because that search ended in failure." (I had asked Jesus why John wept much.)
3. "Why was the Holy Spirit still there? I said I would send Him down as soon as I ascended.

I will say what Jesus said, until you can answer these questions correctly, you will never understand God's intent in these two chapters.

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, not an echo said:

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I'm kinda surprised, kinda not, that this is all you say concerning the 6th Seal.  I'm not sure I've ever heard you state your position on verses 15-16.

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15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able...

I believe Revelation is a book pointed to the Jews. After all, half the book is about THEIR 70th week. 

Only the Jews (not heathen Gentiles) would know the Joel 2 signs of the DAY in the sun and moon and know the Isaiah 2 sign of the DAY as in a great earthquake.  I suspect it will be Jews and Hebrews that try and hide in the rocks and caves. I doubt the average heathen Gentile would have even heard of the Day of the Lord.

With that said, I believe the WEEK is the judgment for the Jews, while the DAY is judgment for the nations. However, some of the judgments of the WEEK will certainly be judgment on the nations too.

I have no revelation knowledge on this: it is only my opinion.

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, not an echo said:

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Your position concerning the "start of the 70^th week" makes me wonder if you believe in the imminency of Christ's coming for the Church.  I mean, if Jesus comes for the Church tonight, are you believing that the beast is going to "confirm the covenant" (Dan. 9:27) tomorrow?

It looks like you are saying that after the "three days and an half" (Rev. 11:9) the two witnesses will "testify for the next 1260 days."

Of the rest, while I do agree with you on several things, my understandings continue to resonate with my spirit much better than your understandings resonate with my spirit.  But, I will try to remain mindful of what you put forth.

Yes, I do believe strongly in the immanency of Christ's coming for Paul's rapture. I believe it could be tonight. I believe it will probably come this year or the next. If not, it will certainly come in the next ten years.  I do believe the 70th week will begin just days after the start of the Day of the Lord. Perhaps ten days.

The two witnesses suddenly SHOW UP in the timing of 11:3. That time will be, I believe, 3 1/2 days before the abomination. Their 1260 days will then take them to just 3 1/2 days before the END of the week: the 7th vial. They will be killed and lay dead those 3 1/2 days and be raised with all the rest of the OT saints, "on the last day."

I think that worst ever earthquake at the 7th vial pinpoints the time of the OT saints' resurrection.

You asked some good questions.

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, it's the invention of John N. Darby 1830's and promoted by C.I. Scofield's 1909 reference Bible, better known as dispensationalism

You just do not understand the bible nor prophecy. THATS ON YOU. I really do not trust anyone via ANYTHING on Eschatology if they can't get the simple timing of the Rapture down. The Darby stuff is nonsensical and sophomoric. Paul wrote about the Pre Trib Rapture, you can not dig it out. Again, THATS ON YOU. But even if you could, you would still be wrong on 95 percent of everything else.  

[truth7t7]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You just do not understand the bible nor prophecy. THATS ON YOU. I really do not trust anyone via ANYTHING on Eschatology if they can't get the simple timing of the Rapture down. The Darby stuff is nonsensical and sophomoric. Paul wrote about the Pre Trib Rapture, you can not dig it out. Again, THATS ON YOU. But even if you could, you would still be wrong on 95 percent of everything else.  

You will closely note you provided absolutely no scripture to support your claim of a pre-trib rapture, because there isn't any

Jesus Is The Lord

[not an echo]

On 1/11/2023 at 9:51 AM, iamlamad said:

On 1/10/2023 at 9:58 PM, not an echo said:

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Concerning your second sentence, it will be after the opening of the 6th Seal---just after the Church is gathered---that the period of the last days' DOTL judgment will commence.  It will be at least "five months" (Rev. 9:5, 10) and maybe longer (Rev. 9:15) before the fulfilling of Daniel's 70th Week begins, evidenced by the "little book" of Daniel being seen "open" in chapter 10 (vs. 2/Dan. 12:4, 8-10) and what we see in the opening three verses of chapter 11.

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Please tell me where you see the Week starting and why you think that is where it starts.

Well, stay with me.  As I have stated many places in many of my threads, I see Daniel's 70th Week beginning once the world's stage is prepped for it.  This preparation will begin the day the 6th Seal is opened and the Church is gathered.  As the NT Church was not a part of the fulfilling of the first 69 weeks, it should not surprise us that it will not be a part of the fulfilling of the final, or 70th Week.

The way everything shapes up to me, the purpose of the "third part" destruction connected with the sounding of the first four trumpets is to take what is in our Western Hemisphere off of the last days' stage, so that the focus is brought to bear---once again---upon Israel and the lands of the Bible days for the fulfilling of the final week.  Said another way, not only was the Church not a part of the fulfilling of the first 69 weeks, what is in our Western Hemisphere wasn't either.  And both will be taken out of the picture, in preparation for the 70th Week.  When I have spoken of a world stage reset for the fulfilling of Daniel's 70th Week, this is what I am talking about.  Thoughts of this possibility have engaged me ever since I discovered that what is in our Western Hemisphere represents a "third part" of the earth to within less than one percentage point.  For more related to this, consider my thread, The First Four Trumpets (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/249206-the-first-four-trumpets/).  Some other really interesting truths come to light with this understanding, all of which is in accord with the tenor of Scripture.

With the sounding of the 5th Trumpet, we have evidences pointing to the initial rise of the beast (cp. Rev. 9:1-2 & 11:7).  With a world in utter turmoil after what happens with the opening of the 6th Seal and the first four trumpets, the "five month" (9:5, 10) time frame spoken of in this period will facilitate the beast's rise to power.

With the 6th Trumpet, we see evidences that connect with the depopulation of the Far East.  It is easily conceivable that a cataclysm capable of destruction that would depopulate our Western Hemisphere would result in tsunamis that would be devastating to the shore lands around the world---way inland.  On the Pacific Ocean side, it is not hard to envision what this would mean for the shore lands of eastern Asia, resulting in major migrations westward.  The bottom line?  Again, bringing the focus more and more to bear upon the lands of the Bible days, as things were during the fulfilling of the first 69 weeks.

Then, with the world's stage reset, we see the "little book" of Daniel "open" (Rev. 10:2/Dan. 12:4, 8-10).  Meaning...

IT'S TIME!!!

What do we see then?  It's in our face:  What we see in the opening verses of Revelation 11.  Once again, in the opening verse, just because reference is here made to "the temple of God" and there is "worship" going on, this does not mean it is God who is being worshiped (cp. Matt. 24:15, Mk. 13:14, & II Thess. 2:3-4).  Then, unsurprisingly, we see the first mentions of the two 3-1/2 year time frames that make up Daniel's 70th Week.  Further, with the 3-1/2 year time frame mentioned in verse three, an account begins of things relating to the first half of the 70th Week (vss. 3-13), which is evidenced to be over just before the 7th Trumpet is sounded (vs. 14).

Now brother, with me, it's not that I am so much against what you and others may put forth.  It just that I'm not seeing anything of the other views or yours that even belongs in the same category as what I have come to see.  Kinda like McDonald's.  There are some things they have on their menu that I like just fine.  But, it doesn't even belong in the same category as a Cracker Barrel.   You can be assured of this---whatever I put before you is not going to be fast food.

On 1/11/2023 at 9:51 AM, iamlamad said:

There is MORE confirmation: Daniel wrote that the ANGEL said, the Week was for Daniel's people, the Jews and Hebrews. You have the church going through part of the Week. That alone should tell you your theory is off.

Where do you get that I have "the church going through part of the Week"?  Kinda reminds me of a McDonald's order mix-up.