Reconciling 6 Days with 13.7 Billion Years

[The Barbarian]

Somewhat more than half of the world's Christians are Roman Catholics, and the Church recognizes that evolution is consistent with Christian faith.   The second largest group of Christians are Eastern Orthodox, and they also accept this fact.    Among Protestants, Anglicans and Lutherans (with the exception of one American synod) also accept this fact.  So you're pretty much out on that limb by yourself.

37 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Ha.  Evolution (either your version or Darwin's)

The current version is entirely consistent with Darwin's theory, with the addition of genetics.   Again, because you don't have any idea what evolutionary theory says, or what evolution itself is, you're once again working from imagination.

39 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

cannot explain Genesis 1.

It's not supposed to.   It only explains how living populations change over time.

39 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

According to psa 33:9, God did exactly that:  "poofed living things into existence".

Well, that's a testable assumption:
Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

God says you're wrong.   I believe Him.

You're the first person to whom I've explained the difference between evolution and adaptation, who couldn't get it.   Not sure why.

43 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Let's not get condescending.

It's just a fact.  I've never seen anyone who couldn't get it, before.

He created the universe in an instant.   As He says in Genesis, a lot of things developed from that initial creation over time.

44 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Right.

He called the universe into existence in an instant, and all other things developed from that initial creation, as He tells us in Genesis.  

46 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

No, God didn't create me nor those born this morning.

He did create all of us.  You just don't approve of the way He does it.

46 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

However, if you are only referring to the immaterial part of me, my soul, then YES, He did.  Just as He did with Adam.

Our bodies, God creates using nature.   Our souls are given to us directly by Him.

 He created apple maggot flies in the 1800s, and D. miranda in the early 1900s.

48 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

So what?

It's how He creates all species.   As Darwin discovered.  It's an ongoing process.    I'm thinking that your inability to see what evolution is, and what adaptation is, is mostly what's holding you back.

49 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Ha.  I'm not being held back by anything.

Your failure to understand the differences between these two is what holds you back from understanding God's creation in living things.

50 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I simply disagree with your ideas.

Words mean things.   If you use words differently than other people, you will always misunderstand.

50 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Evolution, as taught in schools, from elementary through graduate school, teaches that the universe developed over a long period of time

No, you got that wrong, too.   As I showed you, evolutionary theory only describes how living populations change over time.

51 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

with a slimy amoeba  which crawled out of some primordial soup

Amoebae are far too complex to have been the first organisms.   It took at least a billion years to evolve eukaryotes like amoebae.

52 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

That is the evolution that most people think of.

Some people, anyway.   As I showed you, ignorance is what holds most people back in understanding how it works.

53 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Also, I agree with scholars who have calculated that Adam was on earth about 6,000 years ago.

We know that humans were drawing very realistic pictures on cave walls over 20,000 years ago.   Jericho has been inhabited for at least 11,000 years.   

56 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

Fortunately, your salvation doesn't depend on it.   God doesn't care if you approve of the way He created things.

 

[The Barbarian]

17 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Not so, my friend, the Book was first delivered to the People of the Book, the Children of Israel, particularly the TaNaKh, that portion called "the Old Testament" by Christians.

You're confusing the OT with the entire Bible.  The Bible incorporates some (but not all) writings from Hebrew times.

 

 

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Philologos said:

Oh, I wasn’t concerned about your research method. I just think that by using a verb tense that has no purpose, in this particular case, but has the potential to create a focus on “what happened that God had to ‘restore’ the earth?” The only example I have is this conversation. I immediately noticed the grammar, I inquired about it, you dismissed my initial inquiry, I mentioned it a second time and you then agreed to say what was on your mind…

I thought every verb tense has a purpose.  Why wouldn't it.  We have to know whether the action has already occurred, is occurring, or will occur.  My only point about "hayah" is that Henry Morris, who I respect highly, wrote an article back in 1987 that was critical of the time gap, entitled "the gap theory...does it have a hole in it?"  Kinda tongue in cheek.  

In that article he admitted that the verb CAN BE translated "became" but he said it was very rare and required a context in order to use it.  And both of those claims are wrong.  Biblehub.com gives every use of the exact same form of that verb (111 verses) and 'became/become' is THE MOST COMMON translation of it.  But he didn't have biblehub.com back in 1987, so I give him a pass.  And there is no such "rule" about requiring a context in order to use that verb form.  He must have made that one up.

3 hours ago, Philologos said:

And then I was disappointed, to be honest. When you’d used that verb tense, it caught my attention, I actually hoped you had legitimate insight to why it was written that way… as I have waited 20 years to hear what someone else has to say about it… no problem, though. 
Your methods of research are fine, btw. 👍🏼

Again, that very verb form is translated as "became/become" in 59% of all the verses with that exact verb form.  So I'm not giving an opinion, but HOW the verb form is translated elsewhere in the OT. So it is the most common  translation of that form.

We understand what words mean by seeing how they are translated generally.  And the translation "was" occurs only about 4% of the time.  

[George]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Somewhat more than half of the world's Christians are Roman Catholics, and the Church recognizes that evolution is consistent with Christian faith.   The second largest group of Christians are Eastern Orthodox, and they also accept this fact.    Among Protestants, Anglicans and Lutherans (with the exception of one American synod) also accept this fact.  So you're pretty much out on that limb by yourself.

   Since when is a believer supposed to go "mainstream."  If that's your argument ... it's not a very good one!    

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Somewhat more than half of the world's Christians are Roman Catholics, and the Church recognizes that evolution is consistent with Christian faith.   The second largest group of Christians are Eastern Orthodox, and they also accept this fact.    Among Protestants, Anglicans and Lutherans (with the exception of one American synod) also accept this fact.  So you're pretty much out on that limb by yourself.

I'm with truth.  My understanding of Gen 1:2 reveals that the earth is far older than Adam, which is the title of this thread, btw.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

The current version is entirely consistent with Darwin's theory, with the addition of genetics.   Again, because you don't have any idea what evolutionary theory says, or what evolution itself is, you're once again working from imagination.

Nonsense.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

It's not supposed to.   It only explains how living populations change over time.

Please review the title of this thread.  Nothing you've posted even addresses the subject.  The thread isn't about how living populations change over time.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

God says you're wrong.   I believe Him.

God didn't say I'm wrong.  I believe Him, not you.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

You're the first person to whom I've explained the difference between evolution and adaptation, who couldn't get it.   Not sure why.

I ignore such condescentions.  I fully understand all about adaptation and I am familiar with what Darwin wrote about.  I'm not sure why you don't understand that.

I even gave examples of muscles adapting to overloading.  So please don't tell me what I don't understand.  

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

It's just a fact.  I've never seen anyone who couldn't get it, before.

I don't get you or your claims.  That's all I don't get.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

He did create all of us.  You just don't approve of the way He does it.

Seems you really have a very bad case of hyper-judgmentalism here.  Where did I ever even suggest that I didn't approve of what or how God does anything?  If you can prove your opinion, please do.  Otherwise, I'm open to apologies.

God created out of nothing man's soul, and He is still doing that, as I noted already, which proves your empty opinion to be false.  He created man's body from the dust.

He also created the ability for humans to procreate (make babies and such).  

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Our bodies, God creates using nature.   Our souls are given to us directly by Him.

That's what I've been saying and clearly.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

As I showed you, evolutionary theory only describes how living populations change over time.

Irrelevant to this thread.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Amoebae are far too complex to have been the first organisms.   It took at least a billion years to evolve eukaryotes like amoebae.

Look, Adam's body was created in a short time.  Or did you time it?  Then God breathed into that lump of clay a soul, which He created immediately.  I don't care about amoebae.  Doesn't matter.  God placed all living things on the restored earth BEFORE He created Adam.  Just read Genesis 1 for the details.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Some people, anyway.   As I showed you, ignorance is what holds most people back in understanding how it works.

That, and bias.  Seems most people simply accept without any checking what pastors/teachers say and claim.  They are unlike the "more noble Bereans" who 'searched the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul said was true'.  

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Fortunately, your salvation doesn't depend on it.   God doesn't care if you approve of the way He created things.

I am fully aware that the fact that God restored the planet before placing mankind on it has NO BEARING at all on ANY doctrine, and certainly NOT our salvation.  If you thought I did, you quite mistaken.

And, one more time, get off your hyper-judgmentalism that is totally incorrect.  I fully approve of everything God does.  I think you are just kidding yourself.

You can't or at least haven't refuted my view about the restoration of the earth.  And my view addresses the title of this thread, unlike your views, which have no bearning or relevance to this thread.

[The Barbarian]

14 minutes ago, George said:

Since when is a believer supposed to go "mainstream." 

He's supposed to go with God.  "Mainstream" is what the YE creationists claim to be.   We just try to be imitations of Christ.    Worth a try?

15 minutes ago, George said:

If that's your argument ... it's not a very good one!    

Matthew 16;18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
 

I believe Him.   You should, too.

[The Barbarian]

1 minute ago, FreeGrace said:

I'm with truth.  My understanding of Gen 1:2 reveals that the earth is far older than Adam, which is the title of this thread, btw.

Billions of years older.   Why would that be a big deal for God?

The current version is entirely consistent with Darwin's theory, with the addition of genetics.   Again, because you don't have any idea what evolutionary theory says, or what evolution itself is, you're once again working from imagination.

2 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Nonsense.

It's just a fact.  

 

3 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I ignore such condescentions.  I fully understand all about adaptation and I am familiar with what Darwin wrote about.  I'm not sure why you don't understand that.

You're not even able to tell the difference between evolution and adaptation.  

4 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

He did create all of us.  You just don't approve of the way He does it.

 

4 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Seems you really have a very bad case of hyper-judgmentalism here.

Well, one of us might...

5 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

God created out of nothing man's soul, and He is still doing that, as I noted already, which proves your empty opinion to be false.  He created man's body from the dust.

Which is what I just told you.   Man's body is the result of evolution, but his soul is given immediately by God.

What you don't get is that both of these are creation.   Some things God creates without intermediates like our souls.  Some things, like our bodies, He uses existing creation to produce.

7 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Look, Adam's body was created in a short time.

Did you time it?    No?   Just another of man's additions to God's word.

8 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

God placed all living things on the restored earth BEFORE He created Adam.

That's another of man's additions.   Why not just accept it as it is?

9 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I am fully aware that the fact that God restored the planet before placing mankind

Again, your addition to His word.

9 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I fully approve of everything God does.

Except for evolution and abiogenesis, it seems.

10 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

You can't or at least haven't refuted my view about the restoration of the earth.  

I'm just pointing out that it's man's addition to scripture.

 

[JimmyB]

21 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

That's why they are a minority among Christians.  Most accept it as it is, without adding YE doctrines.

It's a Christian Book.  We had it first.   Not that we mind if others read it, but please keep in mind it was ours first.

Try to keep in mind the difference between evolution and adaptation. 

Evolution is a change in allele frequencies in a population.   That can be adaptation, but sometimes it's not adaptation.

Adaptation is a change in organisms to make them more fit to the environment.   Sometimes that's due to a change in alleles in a population and sometimes it's not.   The former is both adaptation and evolution and the latter is only evolution.

Clear now?

Right.   We didn't have populations until later when the Earth brought forth living things as God created it to do.   Gen. 1:25.   You know, that Christian book.

 

The Bible is a Judeo-Christian bo0k, not solely a Christian book.

All the authors of the Bible (with one exception) was written by Jews.

[JimmyB]

The Bible -- both Testaments -- is a spiritual book.  To try to equate science with God's word is an exercise in futility.

For example, the Bible mentions the Holy Spirit but doesn't mention cancer.

[The Barbarian]

24 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

The Bible is a Judeo-Christian bo0k, not solely a Christian book.

All the authors of the Bible (with one exception) was written by Jews.

Christianity is a Jewish faith.    Almost all the first Christians were Jews.