Ephraim

[Alive]

13 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Here's another POV.

1 Chronicles 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel—he was indeed the firstborn, but because he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given to the sons of Joseph, the son of Israel, so that the genealogy is not listed according to the birthright; 2 yet Judah prevailed over his brothers, and from him came a ruler, although the birthright was Joseph’s—

There is Christ again!

[farouk]

4 hours ago, Mr. M said:

I too saw Jeremiah 31:9 as an endorsement of Jacob's blessing, that his hands were led by the Lord to place

Ephraim ahead of Manasseh. There is also a prophetic angle to placing the double blessing (Ephraim), ahead of

Manasseh, (causing to forget).

Hosea 13:1 When Ephraim spoke, trembling,
He exalted himself in Israel;
But when he offended through Baal worship, he died.
2 Now they sin more and more,
And have made for themselves molded images,
Idols of their silver, according to their skill;
All of it is the work of craftsmen.
They say of them,
“Let the men who sacrifice kiss the calves!”
3 Therefore they shall be like the morning cloud
And like the early dew that passes away,
Like chaff blown off from a threshing floor
And like smoke from a chimney.

Samaria, in the land of Ephraim, engaged in Baal worship, as their first king, Jeroboam,

set up calves for worship, as in the wilderness.

4 “Yet I am the Lord your God
Ever since the land of Egypt,
And you shall know no God but Me;
For there is no savior besides Me.
5 I knew you in the wilderness,
In the land of great drought.
6 When they had pasture, they were filled;
They were filled and their heart was exalted;
Therefore they forgot Me.

The message: God's blessings can lead to forgetfulness, as the testimony of Israel demonstrated.

Ephraim does indeed get a bad press, in Scripture.......

[Mr. M]

11 minutes ago, farouk said:

Ephraim does indeed get a bad press, in Scripture.......

That being the Northern Kingdom, of course.

[Wayne222]

5 hours ago, Waggles said:

The answers you seek lie in knowing history and what happened to the Kingdom of Israel that was removed by the Assyrians.

God does not lose his children and given the promises made to Abraham and that through him and his seed would come blessings for the whole world (and as Jesus said salvation is of the Jews) then there must be a plan and purpose for the "lost" ten tribes of Israel of which Ephraim is the principle tribe - as Judah is the principle tribe of the southern kingdom.

Israel has become the nations of Europe which received the gospel of salvation and the new covenant of God placing his spirit within the heart. Not Judah but Israel (Ephraim).

Jeremiah 31:31  “Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32  not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. 
33  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 
34  And no longer shall each one teach his neighbour and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Thus Ephraim of the process of time becomes the preeminent royal kingdom of Europe - Britain - the throne of Westminster over the stone of destiny (Jacob's pillar brought originally to Ireland by Jeremiah the prophet). The stone of destiny travelled to Scotland and then to England - by 1801 Britain became the United Kingdom of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

Jer 33:17  “For thus says the LORD: David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,

and when God returns in power and glory having shortened the days of world War III then He shall restore all of Israel back to being one nation with one King -

Ezekiel 37:16  “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’
17  And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. 
18  And when your people say to you, ‘Will you not tell us what you mean by these?’ 
19  say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand.

Ezekiel 37:24  “My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. 
25  They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever.

This is all false. Been disproven. I read books on this before. Armstrong's wrote who is America and Britain ? False that corrupt bible prophecy. 

[DeighAnn]

39 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

This is all false. Been disproven. I read books on this before. Armstrong's wrote who is America and Britain ? False that corrupt bible prophecy. 

By whom was it disproven?  This would be a great subject to have one of those one on one debates, as you seem to be very sure of what you have read being correct.  If you ever want to, let me know and we can get a hold of George because I feel confident that it was put forth as 'disproven' but that wasn't truth.  I would take the other side of the argument as in the Promises made to Abraham Isaac and Jacob and to all his sons and the unconditional and conditional covenants and commands and blessings and cursing's of God and the migrations and the history athat followed and the impacts that are still seen and recognizable today, brought home with  the times the tribes went into captivity and when new nations 'became nations' exactly that many years later, along with the Assyrians tablets from profane history that record the events of the peoples etc...Sounds like a blast.  Let me know...

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Alive said:

Jer. 31:9 (NAS20S)  “ They will come with weeping,   And by pleading I will bring them;   I will lead them by streams of waters,   On a straight path on which they will not stumble;   For I am a father to Israel,   And Ephraim is My firstborn.”

With weeping they shall come and with supplications I will lead them I will cause them to walk by the rivers of water in a way straight not they shall stumble in which for I am to Israel a Father and Ephraim My firstborn is

I don't know what you are saying/asking here but in hopes of starting off on the same foot, I am going to ask what you mean by "We know the history of Ephraim the tribe--half tribe?  and how Jacob preferred? Ephraim although he was the younger. Stuff like that, as well as the strife between the three tribes living in that country and Judah?. But my question is around some interesting verses".

What does 'half tribe' means?  And why did you say Jacob preferred Ephraim?  I thought the hands landed where they did by Gods will and as to the future.  And what 3 tribes??  I am kinda lost as you can see.   

So, for foundation purposes, Reuben the first born of Jacob/Israel lost the 'birthright' and special blessing and so it went to Joseph who he (Israel/Jacob) loved more than all the others, who was the first born of Rachael making him head of the family. 

1 Chronicles 5 1Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.

2For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's

Joseph brought his two sons for Jacob to bless before Jacob died and Jacob/Israel adopted them so they received the blessings. Now, putting forth Scripture just to see if I am even on the right page. (though not getting that feeling)


Gen 48

1And it came to pass after these things, that one told Joseph, Behold, thy father is sick: and he took with him his two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim.

2And one told Jacob, and said, Behold, thy son Joseph cometh unto thee: and Israel strengthened himself, and sat upon the bed.

3And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

4And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.

5And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine.

6And thy issue, which thou begettest after them, shall be thine, and shall be called after the name of their brethren in their inheritance.

7And as for me, when I came from Padan, Rachel died by me in the land of Canaan in the way, when yet there was but a little way to come unto Ephrath: and I buried her there in the way of Ephrath; the same is Bethlehem.

8And Israel beheld Joseph's sons, and said, Who are these?

9And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.

10Now the eyes of Israel were dim for age, so that he could not see. And he brought them near unto him; and he kissed them, and embraced them.

11And Israel said unto Joseph, I had not thought to see thy face: and, lo, God hath shewed me also thy seed.

12And Joseph brought them out from between his knees, and he bowed himself with his face to the earth.

13And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him.

14And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

15And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,

16The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

17And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

18And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

19And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
 

20And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.

21And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers.

22Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

 

[Wayne222]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

By whom was it disproven?  This would be a great subject to have one of those one on one debates, as you seem to be very sure of what you have read being correct.  If you ever want to, let me know and we can get a hold of George because I feel confident that it was put forth as 'disproven' but that wasn't truth.  I would take the other side of the argument as in the Promises made to Abraham Isaac and Jacob and to all his sons and the unconditional and conditional covenants and commands and blessings and cursing's of God and the migrations and the history athat followed and the impacts that are still seen and recognizable today, brought home with  the times the tribes went into captivity and when new nations 'became nations' exactly that many years later, along with the Assyrians tablets from profane history that record the events of the peoples etc...Sounds like a blast.  Let me know...

I use to belong to the world wide church of God. For years we were taught Isarel became America and Britain. I studied the subject many years ago. I really don't want to go into a debate about it. Not because I cannot but it's a waste of time. I know it's false. 

[Waggles]

Gen 49:1  Then Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you what shall happen to you in days to come. 
2  “Assemble and listen, O sons of Jacob, listen to Israel your father. 
3  “Reuben, you are my firstborn, my might, and the firstfruits of my strength, preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power. 
4  Unstable as water, you shall not have preeminence, because you went up to your father's bed; then you defiled it—he went up to my couch!

Gen 49:22  “Joseph is a fruitful bough, a fruitful bough by a spring; his branches run over the wall. 
23  The archers bitterly attacked him, shot at him, and harassed him severely, 
24  yet his bow remained unmoved; his arms were made agile by the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob (from there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel), 
25  by the God of your father who will help you, by the Almighty who will bless you with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that crouches beneath, blessings of the breasts and of the womb. 
26  The blessings of your father are mighty beyond the blessings of my parents, up to the bounties of the everlasting hills. May they be on the head of Joseph, and on the brow of him who was set apart from his brothers. 

[Waggles]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

I use to belong to the world wide church of God. For years we were taught Israel became America and Britain. I studied the subject many years ago. I really don't want to go into a debate about it. Not because I cannot but it's a waste of time. I know it's false. 

Is that the late Herbert W. Armstrong ? 

Israel did not become the U.S.A. and the U.K..

The tribe of Ephraim (the younger brother) became Britain and formally came to age in 1801 with the Union of Jacob - the Union Jack.

The older brother Manasseh became the U.S.A. in 1776 - making the older to serve the younger.

Gen 17:3  Then Abram fell on his face. And God said to him, 
4  “Behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be the father of a multitude of nations. 
5  No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. 
6  I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you. 
7  And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you.

Gen 35:10  And God said to him, “Your name is Jacob; no longer shall your name be called Jacob, but Israel shall be your name.” So he called his name Israel. 
35:11  And God said to him, “I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply. A nation and a company of nations shall come from you, and kings shall come from your own body.

The other tribes of Israel are all part of Europe - for example Zebulun are the Greeks 

Gen 49:13  “Zebulun shall dwell at the shore of the sea; he shall become a haven for ships, and his border shall be at Sidon.

[Mama Etna]

8 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

I use to belong to the world wide church of God. For years we were taught Isarel became America and Britain. I studied the subject many years ago. I really don't want to go into a debate about it. Not because I cannot but it's a waste of time. I know it's false. 

I had a friend, years ago, that aggressively tried to get me to join the WWCG.  I am thankful I didn't.  It keeps coming up like a spoiled egg on forums, though.

I will stick with my Bible.