The Giants

[Mama Etna]

44 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

I already explained Sons of God & daughters of men- if you can show me Scriprure to support your idea of " Nephillum" being the hybrid offspring of angels " mating with humans then that would be God's Word,it isn't -it's speculation

Show me where the Word of God Says Sons of God are Nephillum,fallen angels or angelic beings- it does not

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Genesis 6:2-4

Examining the Hebrew words used in these this passages dispels the notion that angels bred with human in some kind of twisted scenario that produced perverted offspring.   Sons of God is the Hebrew term for man, male child, and it is used in many OT passages referring to God's people, not angels.  

Exodus 4:22-23 - And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Deuteronomy 14:1 - Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

Psalms 82:6-7 - I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

The term Sons of God in the context of Genesis relates the righteous lineage of Seth the followed after God.  They were marrying pagan women and polluting their spiritual heritage, producing offspring that rebelled against God, leading the corruption of mankind.  The Nation of Israel also had this same problem.

[kwikphilly]

Just now, Selah7 said:

I wasn’t speculating, sis.  …. and I truly believe that all of God’s Word is important.  
 

 

Okay,I'm finished with this subject. .. clearly you do not understand where I'm coming from and that's fine,I really don't care what you interpret the Scriptures as Saying- In trying to point out that although you believe what you believe the Word of God(;not mine) does not Say who these MEN of great renown,warriors of old,were ...if you want to believe fallen angels mated with human beings then believe it but please,don't tell me I need to study,lol

In the ancient Hebrew it is believed the Nephillum was derived from " naphal" which simply means ":fallen"- those of us that lean towards the Sons of God dating back to the lineages of Cain & Seth see it fits nicely with those men who " fell" from  Grace & chose to rebel against God..(eg:The fall in the Garden.)  With all that inbreeding it's very likely they produced 6 fingered,6 toed,large people

I did not tell you to go & study the Scriptures dear,you can study from now until Jesus Returns and it simply does not Say the Giants we're anything more than great men of renown,warriors

Now if you are co- mingling extra Biblical literature like the Book of Enoch then I completely understand where these things can get blurry and one can add much conjecture.....

Anyway,I'm really over this stuff--- have a great Christmas❤️

[kwikphilly]

15 minutes ago, Mama Etna said:

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Genesis 6:2-4

Examining the Hebrew words used in these this passages dispels the notion that angels bred with human in some kind of twisted scenario that produced perverted offspring.   Sons of God is the Hebrew term for man, male child, and it is used in many OT passages referring to God's people, not angels.  

Exodus 4:22-23 - And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Deuteronomy 14:1 - Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

Psalms 82:6-7 - I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

The term Sons of God in the context of Genesis relates the righteous lineage of Seth the followed after God.  They were marrying pagan women and polluting their spiritual heritage, producing offspring that rebelled against God, leading the corruption of mankind.  The Nation of Israel also had this same problem.

Exactly- as I said early on it's been many many years since I was fascinated with this study.... I really don't recall much at the time I was studying Ancient Hebrew ( wasn't very good at it,lol)but it did help get a clearer picture through language,so much transliteration can often make a definition hazy when in fact it's pretty simple

 I remember watching a debate on this very Topic ,2 theologian scholars went round & round- nearly 2 hrs about the " Son's of God" & by the time it was ended I thought" who cares" lol.

At that time  I thought surely I would solve this conundrum because I was so smart back then( in my own mind of course!!!) Anyway,it's a wonderful account of how badly things go when man falls out of Love with God and rebels.. ...and it happens again &:again &;again- these things are Written so we learn from our mistakes,God's Word is Written to spare us much grief and show us the WAY❤️

[AnOrangeCat]

29 minutes ago, Mama Etna said:

Sons of God is the Hebrew term for man, male child, and it is used in many OT passages referring to God's people, not angels.  

Thank you for sharing this. I was aware of it and that it was used that way in Psalms and then Jesus used something in a similar context. Didn't know what other verses used it so the list is appreciated.

[Mama Etna]

For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. -  Romans 8:19

This is talking about Christians, not angels.

[Mama Etna]

I do study the Bible quite a lot and I just am not convinced that the giants are the offspring of angels and humans.  Inbreeding - probably.

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

I already explained Sons of God & daughters of men- if you can show me Scriprure to support your idea of " Nephillum" being the hybrid offspring of angels " mating with humans then that would be God's Word,it isn't -it's speculation

Show me where the Word of God Says Sons of God are Nephillum,fallen angels or angelic beings- it does not

Good afternoon, Kwik!

I am not dogmatic nor trying to change anyone’s interpretation. I respect and learn from others’ hermeneutics. Overall, with the big picture, it just makes more sense to me.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

·         Place: in heaven.

·         Who: angels of God in heaven. It does not say they cannot or outside of heaven.

·         Are the fallen angels (rebels) in heaven?

·         They can transform, have appeared in the flesh, talk, eat, and drink. What else is possible?

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Giants = 5872 נְפִילִים (n^ep̄î·lîm): n.pr. [oth n.masc.pl. ]; ≡ Str 5303; TWOT 1393a—LN 93-pers. (gent.) Nephilim: a renown race of giants (Ge 6:4; Nu 13:33+), note: whether this race was a spirit-human race, or godly-ungodly race is debated among theologians^[1]

The lowest rung in the spiritual hierarchy is demons. It is obvious they can and do indwell humans. They are bodiless spirits roaming and looking for flesh to occupy. Angels have spiritual bodies and can transform themselves, unlike demons (unclean, evil spirits).

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Enmity is hostility between two parties or classes of beings.

·         Who is thee and the woman and the other party?

·         Who had their head bruised and their heel bruised?

·         Seed can mean no other than:

2446 זֶרַע (zě·rǎʿ): n.masc.; ≡ Str 2233; TWOT 582a

            1.         LN 3.35 seed, i.e., a kernel part of a plant that propagates the species (Ge 1:11);

            2.         LN 8.70–8.77 semen, i.e., the product of the male genitals (Lev 15:16);

            3.         LN 9.41–9.45 child, i.e., one that is the direct offspring (Ge 15:3);

            4.         LN 10.14–10.48 offspring, descendant, posterity, i.e., one that is related more than one generation removed (Ge 3:15);

            5.         LN 11.90–11.95 family, clan, i.e., an extended family group based on a common ancestor (Ge 19:32, 34);

            6.         LN 11.12–11.54 race, i.e., a very extended family line based on many different criteria, with a focus on religious ties (Ezr 9:2); ^[2]

Anyway, this is the short version of how this view is obtained. Who am I to say my view is right?

 

---

^[1] Swanson, James. Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) 1997: n. pag. Print.

^[2] Swanson, James. Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) 1997: n. pag. Print.

[kwikphilly]

Just now, Dennis1209 said:

Good afternoon, Kwik!

I am not dogmatic nor trying to change anyone’s interpretation. I respect and learn from others’ hermeneutics. Overall, with the big picture, it just makes more sense to me.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

·         Place: in heaven.

·         Who: angels of God in heaven. It does not say they cannot or outside of heaven.

·         Are the fallen angels (rebels) in heaven?

·         They can transform, have appeared in the flesh, talk, eat, and drink. What else is possible?

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Giants = 5872 נְפִילִים (n^ep̄î·lîm): n.pr. [oth n.masc.pl. ]; ≡ Str 5303; TWOT 1393a—LN 93-pers. (gent.) Nephilim: a renown race of giants (Ge 6:4; Nu 13:33+), note: whether this race was a spirit-human race, or godly-ungodly race is debated among theologians^[1]

The lowest rung in the spiritual hierarchy is demons. It is obvious they can and do indwell humans. They are bodiless spirits roaming and looking for flesh to occupy. Angels have spiritual bodies and can transform themselves, unlike demons (unclean, evil spirits).

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Enmity is hostility between two parties or classes of beings.

·         Who is thee and the woman and the other party?

·         Who had their head bruised and their heel bruised?

·         Seed can mean no other than:

2446 זֶרַע (zě·rǎʿ): n.masc.; ≡ Str 2233; TWOT 582a

            1.         LN 3.35 seed, i.e., a kernel part of a plant that propagates the species (Ge 1:11);

            2.         LN 8.70–8.77 semen, i.e., the product of the male genitals (Lev 15:16);

            3.         LN 9.41–9.45 child, i.e., one that is the direct offspring (Ge 15:3);

            4.         LN 10.14–10.48 offspring, descendant, posterity, i.e., one that is related more than one generation removed (Ge 3:15);

            5.         LN 11.90–11.95 family, clan, i.e., an extended family group based on a common ancestor (Ge 19:32, 34);

            6.         LN 11.12–11.54 race, i.e., a very extended family line based on many different criteria, with a focus on religious ties (Ezr 9:2); ^[2]

Anyway, this is the short version of how this view is obtained. Who am I to say my view is right?

 

---

^[1] Swanson, James. Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) 1997: n. pag. Print.

^[2] Swanson, James. Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) 1997: n. pag. Print.

Hi Dennis

Please don't think me rude but it's not entertaining this Topic any further- this is something that requires much more than I am in the mood for at this time plus I'm not at home nor near a computer ....

It's been a crazy week,I'm preparing to go out of town & probably should not have replied at all- I do enjoy speculating different ideas , especially with you - we do have wonderful discussions exploring different scenarios & ideas .    I just can't do it at this time,perhaps when I come back- it's highly likely this thread with have endless pages,lol

Anyway,enjoy your Christmas,Blessings to you and your family❤️

I'll be in & out of Worthy to check Ministry Forum etc..& oversee the Boards as I am Able-

With love in Christ, Kwik

[Ocean]

I think people tend to believe, partly, what they can connect to their own experience and worldview, meaning scripture as well.  That sentence is poorly constructed compared to what I would like to get across but this is a divisive subject because people will take one verse from scripture and apply it across the board while disassociating from other scripture that clearly shows that spiritual beings can and do take on physical appearance and perhaps actual physicality. 

In fact, we are told in the NT that some have entertained angels unawares...that is they did not know they were in the presence of actual other worldly beings from the presence of God. Obviously they did not have wings, they were not floating or appearing nebulous with halos as they were not known to be of another state.

Many do not care to go beyond what might be considered their 'safety zone' for various reasons but some people have been forced out of that comfort or, have an appreciation for comprehension beyond what others do not care to explore.

I have my own angel story wherein spirit appeared as flesh and saved me from what might have been a very bad experience.  I do not think demons are fallen angels so then you have to ask what they are.

To the best of my knowledge, the Bible never states that demons are fallen angels...fallen angels can be found in chains waiting their judgement though.

Some folks just seem to experience more of the spiritual realm then do others though but I would never encourage anyone to go poking around in there

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Ocean

[other one]

8 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

I personally have a bit of a problem with believing an angelic being could inseminate a human being- after all the Word of God Tells us that angels are not like us,they don't marry,They are not male and female and the entire idea is not something I buy into- that's just me

They don't marry in heaven.   if they can' at all, why add the qualifier "in heaven"?

It just depends on who you think sons of God are in the old testament and if there are any but angels until we can be born spiritually.

It's a concept that has to be built upon in layers.

BTW do you remember Carol Hamlett that was here about ten years ago?