Did God restore Israel in 1948?

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, dad2 said:

So you thought that believers in the Great Tribulation would not suffer? Not true. Many will be martyred. They will not be able to buy food or anything else. The world will be burnt and the trees killed the waters turned to blood, so nothing to drink, hailstones about a 100 pounds each falling, the government will be seeking out believers to kill them for refusing the mark, the stars and sun will go dark, demons will be openly on the earth, etc etc. Jesus does not subdue enemies until He returns. Pretty basic stuff.

3 1/2 years?  WOULD there even BE an earth left after that? 

Exactly how does ANY of what you wrote above work with ANY OF THESE


"God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies." Nahum 1:2 KJV


"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it." Isaiah 13:9 KJV
A DAY or 3 1/2 years?

Rev 11
3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.


"That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness," Zephaniah 1:15 KJV
 

1 THES 5
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." Revelation 11:18 KJV



"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Revelation 6:17 KJV



or

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.



And TALK ABOUT RENDERING IMPOTENT
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,



"Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land." Zephaniah 1:18 KJV


"Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly." Isaiah 29:5 KJV


 

[dad2]

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

3 1/2 years?  WOULD there even BE an earth left after that?

Exactly how does ANY of what you wrote above work with ANY OF THESE


"God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies." Nahum 1:2 KJV


"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it." Isaiah 13:9 KJV
A DAY or 3 1/2 years?

Rev 11
3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.


"That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness," Zephaniah 1:15 KJV
 

1 THES 5
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." Revelation 11:18 KJV



"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Revelation 6:17 KJV



or

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.



And TALK ABOUT RENDERING IMPOTENT
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,



"Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land." Zephaniah 1:18 KJV


"Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly." Isaiah 29:5 KJV


 

No idea what point you think you made there. Of course the tribulation is bad. And...so...??

[Revelation Man]

On 12/30/2022 at 2:27 AM, dad2 said:

When they see Him whom they believe and that is faith. He counts that.

Only those who come by faith are accepted, else all of the wicked still alive should be saved also when Jesus returns, your thought process just fails to calculate justice my friend. 

On 12/30/2022 at 2:27 AM, dad2 said:

Firstly, the 2 prophets are not named. I have seen many guesses for that.

One is named, the other isn't which is why I said IMHO, it is Moses. What are they bringing in the end times? Plagues (the Seven Trumpet Judgments in full) are Prayed down by the coming Two-witnesses, what did Moses bring to Egypt? Plagues. On the mount who was in the transfiguration with Jesus? Elijah & Moses, thus I am positive that is the two witnesses, the Law Giver and the Spirit Man.

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

When the Disciples asked Jesus about Elijah he stated it was true, Gid will send Elijah to restore all things. So, Moses shows up with Elijah, do you know a better way to get people to repent? (SMILE)

Psstt, I know Elijah is one and am 99 percent the other is Moses, but it doesn't matter, the Two-witnesses will do what the do.

On 12/30/2022 at 2:27 AM, dad2 said:

The 30 and 45 extra days are not before the Tribulation but after. Why? Because the big count is 1290. Then more are mentioned after that. Israel will not have 30 days to flee. Jesus made that clear. The MUST flee so fast that they do not even go back in their house to grab a needed coat or anything else! You seem to be welding scripture to fit your pet ideas.

 

Well, since I posted a post tat explained this yesterday there is no need in saying it again. If Jesus warns them they have a SIGN and that sign means they should FLEE why would he not give them time to flee? Your hypothesis makes no sense, and makes God seem unintelligent, I think God gives  SIGN and he also gives TIME, else what good is the WARNING? 

They have 30 days to flee, Jesus does not explain how many days because he ants then to make it to the area and to not tarry, but the 1335, 1290mand 1260 explains it all. 

They have many miles to go, and some will not even understand or see the AoD until later on, they might get wise with a week left, or with 4 days left. You think in simple terms brother as if every thing is black & White, I think in logical terms, I see the many shades of gray. I just happen to understand Prophecy, like no one you have ever seen, so it confuses you  it seems. 

On 12/30/2022 at 2:28 AM, dad2 said:

Once they get saved God conquers all their enemies. That doesn't fit.

This is simply not true, we see Israel comes to Christ in Zech. 13:8 just before the DOTL falls in Zech. 14:1. God protects the 1/3 who repents, not the 2/3 who do not repent, the DIE, read it !!

On 12/30/2022 at 2:28 AM, dad2 said:

No. Again that does not fit. The Abomination of desolation is in the middle of the 7 years, not the end.

On 12/30/2022 at 12:56 AM, Revelation Man said:

The 1290 is 30 days before the exact middle (1260) and thus is described as the MIDST, not the middle of the week. I never say its at the end, that is just your wrong assumption brother. 

On 12/30/2022 at 2:28 AM, dad2 said:

No. If they worshiped Jesus in the sacrifices no one would be able to bother them. It would be all over. The reason Satan is allowed to attack them is because they did not accept Jesus, not because they did!

Wrong, that is why God has to protect the Woman fir 1260 days. Gid is not protecting those who refuse to repent, again READ the scriptures I gave you, I am tired of posting them, you should be able to remember them by heart now, I gander you don't want to remember the obvious. It defeats your points on all sides.

The Anti-Christ reigns for 42 months with power over the Saints, go read Rev. 13 and Dan. 7 and 8. I haven't posted Rev. 13, so...

Rev. 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

So, what are you even talking about brother? You argue yourself into a cul-de-sac, then you have no way out. Just admit I'm right

If I tell you a Rooster Dips Snuff, look under the wing and you'll find the can pardner !!

On 12/30/2022 at 2:28 AM, dad2 said:

No way.  It is the dragon that gets chased to the pit once Israel gets saved! The Tribulation is FOR Israel (and others) to learn they need Good and finally accept Jesus.

Israel come to Christ BEFORE the Greatest Ever Troubles start. The 70th week is designed to get Israel to repent, the Greatest Ever Troubles start at the 1260 middle of the week event. 

God Bless.........catching up slowly !!

[Revelation Man]

On 12/30/2022 at 4:06 PM, George said:

I believe your reading the text incorrectly.  It's not AFTER Jesus returns they come ... it WHEN they return He comes.  

for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

 

Yes brother, but even before the very end. 

In  Zech. 13:8-9 the 1/3 are saved, in Zech. 14:1 the DOTL arrives, in verse 2 Israel is sacked, in verse three (1260 days later) Jesus shows up.

You know what's funny, it would take me a 1000 words to explain this to them, they are just entrenched in their old understandings but I think their hearts are in the right place tbh.

By the way, you are spot on 97.7 % of the time. Good work. 

[Revelation Man]

On 12/31/2022 at 5:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

You're not understanding a remnant correctly:

Zechariah 13:8-9 is part of the larger prophecy:

Zechariah 13:7-9 (KJV)

7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow," saith the LORD of hosts: "smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered:

I explained this in full back in that original post, Zech. 13:1-9 is all about the end time Jews coming to Christ, thus they get the "fountain opened up (Jesus' blood) for sins and transgressions" in verse 1. Verses 6 and 7 however is Zechariah IDENTIFYING what opens the fountains, he does it all in one chapter. He gives the end tine Prophecy AND by putting a snippet of the Messiah death in there, it only adds to this great prophetic utterance, not only was this foretold 2500 years before it was going to come to pass, but in the same prophesy we have a small bit of prose about WHAT cleanses these end time Jews, a passage about Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Redeemer of Israel and all mankind  Israel's Messiah !! So, the prophecy is end times, the Sacrifice or the Redeemer came 2000 years before, but 500 or so years after the Prophet Zechariah write the prophesy. 

On 12/31/2022 at 5:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

You've got this SOME OF THIS correct, but not only does the "ekkleesia" NOT go TO "Heaven," but they are NOT married to the Lamb IN "Heaven!" The Marriage is performed HERE on THIS EARTH! In John 2:1-11, Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") performed the changing of the water into wine for a wedding feast in Cana. Thus, wine is an INTRICATE part of the Wedding Feast celebration.

We disagree here.

 

On 12/31/2022 at 5:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

No, see, here's what I was talking about above! These 2/3rds who perish already perished back in 70 A.D. and 135 A.D.! Now, that remnant of 1/3 BACK THEN has GROWN into the current numbers! There's no reason to prune them again! There's no such thing as a "permanent remnant!" One must recognize that some prophecies have already come true, even if other prophecies or other parts of the same prophecy have yet to be finished!

No, this is an END TIME PROPHESY, turn the page, one verse later the DOTL arrives !!

On 12/31/2022 at 5:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

Sure. Just remember though, that what we consider "odd" today was the way the ORIGINAL English was used back in the early 1600s! Actually, what we speak today is the "odd" way, as English has mutated (and not always for the better) down through the centuries! And, as I've said in several topics already, the "thee's" and "thou's" are merely the SINGULAR English forms of the second person, while the "ye's" and "you's" are PLURAL!

 

Its not odd to us however, they are all dead, so we can't converse with them. I understand it, many don't. And the translated from Greek, in many cases they are off or they used words that today means different things. The English Church also had an agenda. They wanted to make the RCC look bad. 

On 12/31/2022 at 5:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

You're mixing time markers in SPITE of the division you want to make! They are "the people (ROMANS/Europeans), who "destroy the city and the sanctuary in 70 A.D.," but the "prince that shall come is 2,000 years later"?! I can understand how this is a problem for those who believe that the "prince that shall come" is the "Antihrist." But, one must understand that the "antichrist" is not a person; it is a "spirit," an "attitude," or a "position held" of being "against the Messiah." The person is actually identified as "the Beast," "the man of lawlessness" or "the man against the Torah." This only makes the most sense if the "man" is a Jew.

The Anti-Christ is a MAN.........Read Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 he is cast into hell fire as a Beast whose body is destroyed.

On 12/31/2022 at 5:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

No doubt! However, the first 3.5 years of the final 7 were fulfilled in the Ministry and Death (and Resurrection) of the Messiah in the First Century. Only the LAST 3.5 years are left! And, they won't be finished until AFTER our Messiah has returned!

NOPE !!

On 12/31/2022 at 5:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

It's important to note three things here:

FIRST, He comes BEFORE the 1,000 years starts, and therefore, the 3.5 years and the Reign of the Messiah OVERLAP!

Jesus only takes over after the 7th Trump (see Rev. 11).

On 12/31/2022 at 5:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

This is another reason why it's a good idea to keep abreast of the news:

99942 Apophis

It is going to hit, I do not need "WORLDY MEN" to tell me what's going on brother. Worldly men are of Satan, of course they are deceived. 

On 12/31/2022 at 5:51 PM, Retrobyter said:

I think you will find that Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") shows up a little sooner than that, and the 1,260 days happen AFTER His arrival.

On 12/29/2022 at 1:55 AM, Revelation Man said:

NOPE........He shows up after the 1260 days of Wrath/Greatest Ever Troubles !! Anti-Christs reign parallels God's Wrath.

Have a blessed day brother RB

[dad2]

3 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

The remnant of Jews and Gentiles are all one in Christ Jesus. There is no special plan for the nation of Israel to become saved. Only a remnant of that nation ended up becoming saved.

Romans 11:26

 

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

[Revelation Man]

On 12/31/2022 at 6:51 PM, dad2 said:

The bible does not say Moses and Elijah. That is a guess.

On 12/31/2022 at 4:41 PM, Revelation Man said:

Transfiguration....And Malachi 4:5 begs to differ with you.

On 12/31/2022 at 6:51 PM, dad2 said:

What verse says the resurrection takes seven years? Ha

 

Well, I understood that you may be Pre Trib (don't hold me to that), but if we get Raptured Pre Trib, and then when Jesus returns the Martyrs are raised and Judged (Rev. 20:4) AND the Saints of old are raised at the very end to stand in their lots as God promised Daniel in Dan. 12. Then the First Resurrection is of a TYPE of people those of Faith !! The Second Resurrection is also of a TYPE of people, the Wicked Unfaithful !!

In Rev. 14, that is a Parenthetical Citation chapter, it is about The Harvests of God. When Jesus shows up the 144,000 (3.5-5 million Jews) are standing on the Mt. of Olives (Symbolism), they are really in the Petra/Bozrah area being protected by God. But Jesus is restoring the Kingdom, thus this prose is telling. Israel are the Wheat who grew together with the tares until the very end. Then in Rev. 14:17-20 we see the Wicked Grapes get Harvested by being placed int the Wine-press of God's Wrath (same event as Rev. 16:19, Rev. 11 the 7th Trump, and Rev. 19s Armageddon Marriage Supper Events). Then, in verse 14 we get a "FLASHBACK" to the Pre Trib Rapture, with Jesus rapturing the Church from upon a cloud !! We the Church are the Barley, it can be Harvested or sifted without being crushed, Wheat has to be crushed in order to be sifted. In fact our English word Tribulation comes from the Greek word Tribulum, which was a machine used to Harvest and Crush Wheat !! So, the Resurrection is both Pre Trib and Post trib, and that has to be 7 years apart. Amen

On 12/31/2022 at 6:51 PM, dad2 said:

Total conjecture.

On 12/31/2022 at 4:41 PM, Revelation Man said:

Which tells me you are not very good at reading the signs, which tells me you don't understand prophecy at all, which is maybe why you can't grasp guy called unto Prophesies points. If you can't see what's coming I really do not trust your judgment tbh. 

On 12/31/2022 at 6:51 PM, dad2 said:

Jesus had understanding and He said it. You obfuscate and cloud and confuse simple truths.

On 12/31/2022 at 4:41 PM, Revelation Man said:

You can't grasp it or you are too unwilling to read the posts, so that's just an excuse, Been there, done that. I shant waste time any more, I know the deal brother. 

On 12/31/2022 at 6:51 PM, dad2 said:

Total guesswork.

On 12/31/2022 at 4:41 PM, Revelation Man said:

FACTS.........Unless you want to call, a fellow Christian a liar. His work is documented.

On 12/31/2022 at 6:51 PM, dad2 said:

You are grabbing a what if guess and trying to weld the verses into line to fit. Anyone can do that.

On 12/31/2022 at 4:41 PM, Revelation Man said:

I understand it you don't. Its also hard to understand when you give a glance at something, its better not to even reply tbh, I take a long time catching up because I actually read what I reply unto.

 

On 12/31/2022 at 6:51 PM, dad2 said:

These are events at the very end just before and when Jesus returns. No idea why you think it is hard to grasp.

 

Why did you leave off Zech. 13:8-9 ? It proves Israel repents JUST BEFORE the coming DOTL (Zech. 14:1).

On 12/31/2022 at 6:51 PM, dad2 said:

I think everyone knows the final part of the seven years or tribulation or wrath of God is the last 3 1/2 years, called the Great Tribulation. So?

On 12/31/2022 at 4:41 PM, Revelation Man said:

I and many other actually do understand when it is.

On 12/31/2022 at 6:51 PM, dad2 said:

You are guessing again. Perhaps a lot of beheading will go on in that time. We don't know. You should offer your fantasy and guesses as such. As for the Great Tribulation, it is a time of the greatest trouble the world ever knew or will know. Populations dying, hunger,war etc. I would suggest you find another hobby other than 'pretend prophesy wiz'.

No, its my calling sir, you are guessing. 

[dad2]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Only those who come by faith are accepted, else all of the wicked still alive should be saved also when Jesus returns, your thought process just fails to calculate justice my friend. 

False. He will have been working on Israel the whole tribulation, with trials designed to get them to repent. It is not some random thing. They will believe in Jesus and be sorry and saved.

 

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

When the Disciples asked Jesus about Elijah he stated it was true, Gid will send Elijah to restore all things. So, Moses shows up with Elijah, do you know a better way to get people to repent? (SMILE)

Still a guess. Albeit a common and a good one.

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Well, since I posted a post tat explained this yesterday there is no need in saying it again. If Jesus warns them they have a SIGN and that sign means they should FLEE why would he not give them time to flee? Your hypothesis makes no sense, and makes God seem unintelligent, I think God gives  SIGN and he also gives TIME, else what good is the WARNING? 

He warned them to flee super fast. Not next month.

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

They have 30 days to flee, Jesus does not explain how many days because he ants then to make it to the area and to not tarry, but the 1335, 1290mand 1260 explains it all. 

No. They are to pray that the day they flee will not be a Saturday. Nothing to do with 4 weeks.

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

They have many miles to go, and some will not even understand or see the AoD until later on, they might get wise with a week left, or with 4 days left. You think in simple terms brother as if every thing is black & White, I think in logical terms, I see the many shades of gray. I just happen to understand Prophecy, like no one you have ever seen, so it confuses you  it seems. 

How many miles we don't know. The main thing is to get the heck out of there right away. As much as you would like it to involve many weeks to give credence to your shoving the additional days back inside the seven year period rather than after.

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

This is simply not true, we see Israel comes to Christ in Zech. 13:8 just before the DOTL falls in Zech. 14:1. God protects the 1/3 who repents, not the 2/3 who do not repent, the DIE, read it !!

The first part of Zec 13 actually is about the millennium after He returns. In Zec 14 it ends talking about the millennium. The tribulation period is mentioned later in chapter 13 as well as earlier in Zec 14. So it is not 2 chapters in chronological sequence. In this sort of situation one needs to be familiar with end time prophesies in general to have a sense of what is what.

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

The 1290 is 30 days before the exact middle (1260) and thus is described as the MIDST, not the middle of the week. I never say its at the end, that is just your wrong assumption brother. 

There is no 1200 whatever days mentioned before the middle. It is after. "From the time..."

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Wrong, that is why God has to protect the Woman fir 1260 days. Gid is not protecting those who refuse to repent, again READ the scriptures I gave you, I am tired of posting them, you should be able to remember them by heart now, I gander you don't want to remember the obvious. It defeats your points on all sides.

It does not say the woman flees before the Great Tribulation even starts. When did Jesus tell them they would need to flee? When the abomination of desolation is set up. THEN they must immediately flee. From that time there is 3 1/2 years left. That is when the woman flees.

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

The Anti-Christ reigns for 42 months with power over the Saints, go read Rev. 13 and Dan. 7 and 8. I haven't posted Rev. 13, so...

So, what are you even talking about brother? You argue yourself into a cul-de-sac, then you have no way out. Just admit I'm right

No idea what you are talking about. Of course the final king reigns in the great Tribulation. And..?

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Israel come to Christ BEFORE the Greatest Ever Troubles start. The 70th week is designed to get Israel to repent, the Greatest Ever Troubles start at the 1260 middle of the week event. 

God Bless.........catching up slowly !!

No. Israel is not saved before the time of Jacob's trouble. You missed the forest for the trees. The last part of the seven years is part of the period designed to get Israel to repent.

 

Daniel 12:7

 

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

 

If Israel were saved already no one would touch them! It would be over. Maybe take a little time off of patting yourself on the back for being so good a prophesy and actually learn something.

[dad2]

22 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Transfiguration....And Malachi 4:5 begs to differ with you.

The transfiguration did not name who the end time witnesses were. It very well could be them. Nevertheless we don't know. I have heard other guesses. As for Mal 4:5 some think that was John the Baptist.

"The symbolic Elijah was John the Baptist (Matthew 11:10-15; Matthew 17:10-13; Luke 1:13-17). After Malachi, John was the next prophet whose voice was heard in Scripture"

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/bbc/malachi-4.html#verse-1

 

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet,.... Not the Tishbite, as the Septuagint version wrongly inserts instead of prophet; not Elijah in person, who lived in the times of Ahab; but John the Baptist, who was to come in the power and spirit of Elijah"

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/geb/malachi-4.html#verse-5

"Malachi 4:5 Comments The prophecy of Malachi of the coming of Elijah was well known by the first century Jews. Elijah did not taste of physical death, but was raptured into heaven in a fiery chariot (2 Kings 2:1-11). The first-century Jews were taught that he would return physically to Israel, as Peter reminded Jesus (Matthew 17:10). Jesus explained that the coming of John the Baptist fulfilled this prophecy because he came with the anointing of Elijah (Matthew 17:11-12). "

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/ghe/malachi-4.html#verse-1

 

etc etc

 

So as I said, it is a matter of opinion and interpretation. Better to admit we don't know. Try that sometime.

 

22 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Well, I understood that you may be Pre Trib (don't hold me to that), but if we get Raptured Pre Trib, and then when Jesus returns the Martyrs are raised and Judged (Rev. 20:4) AND the Saints of old are raised at the very end to stand in their lots as God promised Daniel in Dan. 12. Then the First Resurrection is of a TYPE of people those of Faith !! The Second Resurrection is also of a TYPE of people, the Wicked Unfaithful !!

Yes, I think we go up in the air with Jesus around the time the last seven years starts. So what the term 'first resurrection' means is again opinion. Not all agree.

22 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Quote

In Rev. 14, that is a Parenthetical Citation chapter, it is about The Harvests of God. When Jesus shows up the 144,000 (3.5-5 million Jews) are standing on the Mt. of Olives (Symbolism), they are really in the Petra/Bozrah area being protected by God.

 

Says you. Show the verses that say they are holed up in Bozrah?

 

  But Jesus is restoring the Kingdom, thus this prose is telling. Israel are the Wheat who grew together with the tares until the very end.

No. There will be believers and wicked together on this earth in the last seven years. That is not when God restores Israel!

 

22 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Why did you leave off Zech. 13:8-9 ? It proves Israel repents JUST BEFORE the coming DOTL (Zech. 14:1).

That is about the end of the tribulation.

Zechariah 13:8

 

And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord , two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

Zechariah 13:9

 

And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

Finally they get saved. Then Jesus returns to earth.

 

[Retrobyter]

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

Nope.

Ezekiel 37:21

 

And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Ezekiel 37:22

 

And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

Ezekiel 37:23

 

Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

 

That never happened yet. Not in 722. Not in 1948.

There is no 1948 anywhere. State whatever you like. They still had transgressions in 1948 etc

Shalom, dad2.

I agree that Ezekiel 37:21-23 has not happened, yet. BUT, that is not all there is of the prophecy, and it's not the only prophecy!

May I suggest that you simply go back a chapter before? (I use GREEN for narration; PURPLE for the words of YHWH God; RED for the words of the Messiah Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus the Christ"); and BLUE for everyone else.

Ezekiel 36:1-38 (KJV)

1 "Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say,

"'Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD: 2 Thus saith the Lord GOD';

"'"Because the enemy hath said against you, 'Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession!'"': 3 Therefore prophesy and say,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD';

"'"Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people": 4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD';

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about; 5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD';

"'"Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey!"'

6 "Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen": 

7 "'Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame. 8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come. 9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown: 10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded: 11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 12Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men."

13 "'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"Because they say unto you, 'Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations'; 14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more," saith the Lord GOD. 15 "Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more," saith the Lord GOD.'"

16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 

17 "Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. 18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it: 19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, 'These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.' 21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

22 "Therefore say unto the house of Israel,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD," saith the Lord GOD, "when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. 32 Not for your sakes do I this," saith the Lord GOD, "be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel."

33 "'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. 34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. 35 And they shall say, 'This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.' 36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it."

37 "'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"I will yet for this be inquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. 38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD."'"

Did you know (and I would suspect you didn't) that this prophecy has already started  being fulfilled? Is it complete, yet? NO. However, the children of Israel called "Jews" (who if true Jews are children of Yhudah or "Judah") are ALREADY coming to understand that Yeeshuwa` (whom they were warned against as "Jesus") is indeed the Messiah of God, their Anointed One to be their King! Through such ministries as the Messianic Movement and the Jews for Jesus, they are being exposed to the truth of their own TaNaKh (their Bible, the OT) that reveal that Yeeshuwa` was their King they rejected in the First Century who will come again and become their King! He is the One who was the Sacrifice - the Lamb of God - haKeves Elohiym - who takes away the sin of the world!

9 hours ago, dad2 said:

It mentions a former divide that will no longer exist when they are restored by God. His restoring will not take any great time at all. Boom. Done.

I knew better before you got started. No sense bragging.

WE all know there are periods of weeks or days after Jesus returns. You trying to stick them in the trib period somewhere is what is being looked at here.

For your information, we are ALREADY IN the Great Tribulation! It started in the First Century and will continue until the Lord returns with the gathering of His people!

Matthew 24:5-31 (KJV)

5 "For many shall come in my name, saying, 'I am Christ (the Messiah)'; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted (Greek: τότε παραδώσουσιν ὑμᾶς εἰς θλῖψιν = "then they-will-surrender you INTO TRIBULATION"), and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, 'Lo (Look!), here is Christ (the Messiah)!', or 'there (He is)!'; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before(hand).

26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, 'Behold, he is in the desert!'; go not forth!: 'behold, he is in the secret chambers!'; believe it not! 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (i.e., that's how obvious it will be.) 28 For wheresoever the carcase (prey - YOU) is, there will the eagles (carrion birds) be gathered together.

29 "Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Don't you find it odd that the "Tribulation" could be relegated to 7 years, or even worse, only 3.5 years?! This is NOT what the 70th Week of Daniel 9 is about! The key to understanding the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21 is this: It was given to HIS DISCIPLES! They would soon be facing persecution from both the Jews and the Romans and to whomever the Romans sent them in the Diaspora! Therefore, whenever the pronouns are second-person plural, He is talking to them DIRECTLY! When He uses another pronoun or uses a different point of view, He is looking off into the distant future. He wasn't just speaking about the distant future; He was also warning His Disciples right there in front of Him about the NEAR future! 

Just a chapter before, Yeeshuwa` bawled out the scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrasy and their wickedness, particularly their rejection of Himself as God's Choice for Israel's King! He ended the chapter with these words:

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.'"

This last clause is from Psalm 118:26, let's pick up the reading in verse 21:

Psalm 118:21-26 (KJV)

21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation (Hebrew: liy liyshuwa` = "to-my to-Yshuwa`").
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now (Hebrew: Howshiy`aah naa' = Greek: hosanna =
"Rescue-us now!"), I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD (Hebrew: Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH = "Welcome the-comer in-name of-YHWH"): we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

It's important to note that "the house of the LORD" is a reference to the Temple! Kinda hard to do when there ISN'T a Temple, yet! Thus, a Temple must first be constructed, even if it isn't the one that Yeeshuwa` the Messiah will build later!

The words "Baruwkh haba'," which literally means "Welcome, the comer!" is seen in the plural at all the Israeli airports and seaports! "Baruwkhiym haba'iym." "Welcome, comers!"

Yeeshuwa`s point was that they would have to WELCOME HIM BACK before they would see Him again! Until that time, He left them "DESOLATE," just as Daniel 9:27 said!

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the (Davidic) covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (in His death, Hebrews 10:11-22), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it DESOLATE, even until the consummation, and that (the evil) determined shall be poured upon the desolate (the children of Israel, Daniel's people).