Did God restore Israel in 1948?

[dad2]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, dad2.

I agree that Ezekiel 37:21-23 has not happened, yet. BUT, that is not all there is of the prophecy, and it's not the only prophecy!

The thing is where in any prophesy is the restoring and protecting etc of Israel talked about that regards 1948?

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

May I suggest that you simply go back a chapter before? (I use GREEN for narration; PURPLE for the words of YHWH God; RED for the words of the Messiah Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus the Christ"); and BLUE for everyone else.

Ezekiel 36:1-38 (KJV)

1 "Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say,

"'Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD: 2 Thus saith the Lord GOD';

"'"Because the enemy hath said against you, 'Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession!'"': 3 Therefore prophesy and say,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD';

"'"Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people": 4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD';

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about; 5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD';

"'"Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey!"'

 

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

6 "Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen": 

7 "'Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame. 8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come. 9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown: 10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded: 11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 12Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men."

13 "'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"Because they say unto you, 'Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations'; 14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more," saith the Lord GOD. 15 "Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more," saith the Lord GOD.'"

Great, so the issue is when this will happen. IN no way does it point to the founding of secular Israel today.

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 

17 "Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. 18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it: 19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, 'These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.' 21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

22 "Therefore say unto the house of Israel,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD," saith the Lord GOD, "when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. 32 Not for your sakes do I this," saith the Lord GOD, "be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel."

There was not a clean heart sprinkled on them in 1948. They are not clean then or now. They did and do not loathe themselves  for their unbelief and evil. So that certainly is not history.

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

33 "'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. 34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. 35 And they shall say, 'This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.' 36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it."

They were not saved and cleaned in 1948 obviously. Not sure why you post all this. None of it at all helps you.

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

37 "'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"I will yet for this be inquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. 38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD."'"

They are not holy or saved now. Obviously. That is future.

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Did you know (and I would suspect you didn't) that this prophecy has already started  being fulfilled? Is it complete, yet? NO. However, the children of Israel called "Jews" (who if true Jews are children of Yhudah or "Judah") are ALREADY coming to understand that Yeeshuwa` (whom they were warned against as "Jesus") is indeed the Messiah of God, their Anointed One to be their King! Through such ministries as the Messianic Movement and the Jews for Jesus, they are being exposed to the truth of their own TaNaKh (their Bible, the OT) that reveal that Yeeshuwa` was their King they rejected in the First Century who will come again and become their King! He is the One who was the Sacrifice - the Lamb of God - haKeves Elohiym - who takes away the sin of the world!

Obviously Paul and the apostles and many believers were saved as were untold multitudes since then. That has no application to all Israel getting saved in the end, or to the modern state of Israel. As a group, Jewish people today are not saved or believers in their Messiah. Notice also in much of the chapter here God is talking to the actual land of Israel? That land today and the people on it are not His saved people at all. No more, really than the world in general is. The exceptions in all places are not the thrust of the prophesy here. So no, it has not started to be fulfilled.

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

For your information, we are ALREADY IN the Great Tribulation! It started in the First Century and will continue until the Lord returns with the gathering of His people!

False. That last seven years and specifically the last half of that period is the time of Great Tribulation. There is no other.

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

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Don't you find it odd that the "Tribulation" could be relegated to 7 years, or even worse, only 3.5 years?! This is NOT what the 70th Week of Daniel 9 is about! The key to understanding the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21 is this: It was given to HIS DISCIPLES!

It was for us especially who would live in those days. Using the word tribulation in general as seen in history has no application to that special time of His wrath in the end. There is only one abomination of desolation set up in the end. All other abominations were shadows of things to come. The ultimate fulfillment is only for that last seven year period and that final AntiChrist leader.

Matthew 24:21

 

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

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  They would soon be facing persecution from both the Jews and the Romans and to whomever the Romans sent them in the Diaspora! Therefore, whenever the pronouns are second-person plural, He is talking to them DIRECTLY!

That was just a taste of things to come. Prophesy often starts in the present and then leaps to the future. The abomination spoken of by Daniel was not in that time. That requires some understanding as Jesus pointed out. Let him that reads understand. To read end time prophesy blindly, seeing only the bits that were shadows of things to come in the past is to not understand it at all.
 

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When He uses another pronoun or uses a different point of view, He is looking off into the distant future. He wasn't just speaking about the distant future; He was also warning His Disciples right there in front of Him about the NEAR future! 

 

 

No. He sent His words for believers to come as well. Other sheep had He also that were not of that fold in that time! Jesus is alive not dead. He lives in believers and His word lives as well. When He talks to us, it is personal and we are every bit a part of 'we' 'you', 'ye' etc as they were. So when talking to us who will be alive when that final Great Tribulation starts that is unique and in the end time, He of course says we should flee when we see that abomination etc. We are the primary ones He is talking to! The believers of that time would also have a taste of some of the things, so they are included in some of the things. In end time prophesy the people alive when it happens are the people primarily that the prophesy is for.

 

 

Psalm 118:21-26 (KJV)

21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation (Hebrew: liy liyshuwa` = "to-my to-Yshuwa`").
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now (Hebrew: Howshiy`aah naa' = Greek: hosanna =
"Rescue-us now!"), I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD (Hebrew: Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH = "Welcome the-comer in-name of-YHWH"): we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

As the new testament showed us this is prophesy of the first coming of Jesus. Then in verse 25 we could apply that to the second coming as well. When He saves all Israel. At that time we could even allow your interpretation of house of the Lord!

 

No problem.

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

It's important to note that "the house of the LORD" is a reference to the Temple! Kinda hard to do when there ISN'T a Temple, yet! Thus, a Temple must first be constructed, even if it isn't the one that Yeeshuwa` the Messiah will build later!

There is a temple after Jesus returns in the millennium, no?

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

The words "Baruwkh haba'," which literally means "Welcome, the comer!" is seen in the plural at all the Israeli airports and seaports! "Baruwkhiym haba'iym." "Welcome, comers!"

Yeeshuwa`s point was that they would have to WELCOME HIM BACK before they would see Him again! Until that time, He left them "DESOLATE," just as Daniel 9:27 said!

No better application of welcome the Comer than when He comes back!

Simple.

 

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

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Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the (Davidic) covenant with many for one week:

Notice you inserted a word there to try and make the verse fit a preconceived notion?

The Messiah was already dead and cut off by the time we hit verse 27! 

Daniel 9:26

 

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

Neither was it the Messiah's people that came to destroy anything! Neither was the end anytime in history!

 

From other prophesies we know that the final prince will confirm a covenant. Nothing to do with a davidic covenant at all.

 

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (in His death, Hebrews 10:11-22), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it DESOLATE, even until the consummation, and that (the evil) determined shall be poured upon the desolate (the children of Israel, Daniel's people).

Not sure you comprehend what you posted in that verse. It is plain to understand. The covenant that was mentioned involved the daily sacrifice and will be stopped and the abomination of desolation set up, until Jesus clobbers him and all his henchmen.

 

 

[Revelation Man]

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

Not the same twenty minutes. The same general time, near the end of the 3 1/2 years.

Its a 1260 day jump. You are just not called unto Prophecy, so give it a rest. 

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

No gentiles after the 7 years starts? Chapter and verse. Obviously there are lots of wicked non believers in that time.

Wow, you have zero comprehension skills. You actually think the Time of the Gentiles is about Gentiles ruling over the world I guess or Israel, it is not, it is the TIME when God took His Mantle away from Israel (His calling to reach the world) and gave it unto the Gentiles, and told them to Evangelize the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. When THATB TIME is finished, the Gentile Church gets Raptured, NOW God's focus for the final 7 years is back on Israel, the once again have God's Mantle so to speak, God wants to set up a Kingdom Age in Jerusalem for 1000 years, fulfilling Hi every prophetic utterance about Israel. 

1.) The original calling or Mantel was to bring forth a Godly nation who are separated unto God and birth a Messiah from that nation (Accomplished 2000 some odd years ago).

2.) Israel brought forth tat Messiah but rejected him, they were too Law Centric, God had to teach the who world that all the law does in convict us, so He needed to teach the world what Abraham knew, God's mercies is unwarranted, and given unto us for one reason only, we believe in God's mercies and His Righteousness, this makes us Righteous via His fee gift. Thus God gave now the Mantel of that calling, over to the Gentiles (in general), and told us to evangelize the world, and that when that had been accomplished, THE END (70th week) would come. (In this decade)

3.) When THAT END (70th week) comes, the Pre Trib Rapture will have taken the Gentile Church to Heaven to marry the Lamb, thus now the Mantel of God or CALLING of Israel will be back on God Time so to speak, He will set up a 1000 year Kingdom in Jerusalem where Jesus (God the Redeemer) will rule, Amen.

So, if you can grasp the above, that is what the Time of the Gentiles being over means. HINT: It can't be when Jerusalem was freed in 1967 or when Israel became a Nation again in 1948, because the Anti-Christ once again rules of Israel/Jerusalem for 3.5 years during the 70th week !! Paul in Romans 11 explains this, when the Time of the Gentiles is COME FULL, only then will Israel be grafted back in. (70th week, AFTER the Rapture)

So, only the Gentiles who get saved during the 70th week can be he Martyrs, they will not be protected, Israel will be, because God has to have an Israeli peoples in order to set up the Kingdom Age period !! Now, will there be a few Jews who repent but refuse to flee, probably, but in  general, no, if Moses and Elijah tell you to flee, you better flee, most will, 99.9 percent will, or more, SMILE.

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

False. Mat 24 says nothing about 30 days or 1260 etc. In fact it even mentions that they should hope it is not on a Sabbath day! So much for your fantasy timing.

On 12/31/2022 at 10:24 PM, Revelation Man said:

No kidding, which is why the bible is a mosaic that has to be put together, you sir are just like the Pharisees, who no doubt said said show me where a man named Jesus(Yeshua) was going to be born on (fill in the lank Day, Year and Month) this date.

Meanwhile all the clues (as we know) were there, just like I understand the 1335, 1290 and 1260, but of course because you can't grasp it, to you that means it can't be a truth, get out. (lol)

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

Here is a commentary of what the times of the gentiles are.

 

" when the Jewish people rejected Christ, they were temporarily cut off from the blessings of a relationship with God. As a result, the gospel was given to the Gentiles, and they gladly received it. This partial hardening of heart for Israel doesn’t preclude individual Jews from being saved, but it prevents the nation from accepting Christ as Messiah until His plans are finished. When the time is right, God will restore the entire nation, and they will come to faith in Him once again, ending “the times of the Gentiles” (Isaiah 17:7; 62:11–12; Romans 11:26)."

https://www.gotquestions.org/times-of-the-Gentiles.html

 

That time is when they are saved. Not 1948. Don't tell us that time is history.

 

Mostly correct BUT you invert something, the Time of the "Gentiles" is about the Gentiles Mantle or Calling ENDING, not about Israel getting saved. Let me make this easy, the Time of the Gentiles ends via the Pre Trib Rapture. Its that easy, Israel only come to Christ later on during the 70th week. Just before the DOTL as Zech. 13:8-9 and 13:1 shows us. So, it nit 1948, or 1967, but its also not when Israel gets saved, it is when God's plans take effect in reality, from  Israel, to the Gentiles and finally BACK unto Israel, they only get saved AFTER the Rapture.

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

Nonsense. The period in the end is set apart in Dan 9. It is unique. Jesus says no time ever existed like it or ever will again. Don't try to smuggle your pet theories in under the skirt of the word tribulation.

Yes, but it is only 1260 days, not 2520 days, if you could grasp Jesus own words this would be very easy to understand. 

Matt. 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved(End time no doubt): but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

WHEN? When they see the AoD well when is the AoD? 

It is SIMPLE MATH:

Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So, are you really telling me you can not understand when the Greatest Troubles Ever starts? The above says very clearly in the MIDST of the week !! So, it is not the whole 70th week !! Will you pretend this away also? 

So, the only NONSENSE is coming from you brother, this is my calling, I actually understand it all. I am not player Message Board Prophecy guy. 

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

Says you. Too bad your invented codes have no value or relevance.

Too funny, he doesn't understand how Gd uses numbers so since he can't grasp it, it can't be truth. Prophesy is not your calling.

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

Math games. How about this one. 3 strikes you're out.

On 12/31/2022 at 10:24 PM, Revelation Man said:

Sad really, just a quipster quipping. 

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

Safely? What if a million died in a plague or war or whatever before that seven years started? What if the seven years didn't start right away and there was an extra 2 million Jews? You are guessing at numbers. You should learn the words maybe, and possibly, and my guess is approx.

Maybe you should learn what 3.5-5 million means, lol, that a RANGE VARIANT of 1.5 million, the number is not important, it could be more or less according to births, deaths etc. The NUMBER is nor relevant per se, the number not actually being 144,000 is VERY RELEVAANT, thus if its only 2.5 million  because of deaths, or 6 million because of more births, the POINT IS, its not 144,000 which is miniscule by comparison  to either number. Do you actually think before you respond brother? 

So, is there only 10 Virgin Brides? No, it a CODE for Complete Christendom. So, when 5 don't make it that means half of so called Christians will not make the marriage call by Jesus.

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

Let us guess, you are privy to special secrets. Ha

 

Correct my calling is Prophecy, your is not, in  a vision in 1986 as a 2 year old Christian I was running form evil dudes with 2 kids, and I hid behind a bush, by a house (still very vivid to me) and a loud booming voice from above said "The Man of Sin is here". 

To PROVE to me His dreams always comes to pass (me being a young Christian) the Holy Spirit gave me another vision a few months later, this time I was in a HUGE AUDITORIUM, and there were maybe 8 or 9 people there with me, and Jimmy Swaggart was preaching, withing 2 weeks he had fallen from grace. God had showed me he would lose his ministry, he did for a while. So, at that point In was like, yikes, Gid showed me that in order to let me know His first vision was fast and true, so my calling is nit your calling. God doesn't just tell someone the Anti-Christ is in the world in general. Just because I see things you don't maybe you should wise up and listen instead of being a quipster. 

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

No. The only Jews protected are the 144,000 witnesses and the 2 witnesses. Also all Israel after they get saved in the very end. Most of them actually will die, only a remnant in the end are saved.

You simply have no clue brother, sad really.

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

Verse that says no one has any help from God but Israel? I already outlined who is protected. Israel will be judged, not protected! That is a big reason for the wrath to begin with, to get Israel to repent.

Its God's Wrath, he PROTECTS Israel, when those 5 who miss the wedding call are spoken of by Jesus he says there will be Weeping and gnashing of teeth. That means even if they get saved after pretending to be Christians pre trib or being Christians and turning away from the Lord like Judas did.

Rev. 12:3 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman(Israel) which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle(God is Eagles Wings in many places in the bible), that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

This is not difficult, there are many more that say the same thing.

On 12/31/2022 at 11:48 PM, dad2 said:

Not my fault you got muddled up. Where does it say all those who flee will go to Judea? (forget the numbers you cite, since that is guesswork)

In Dan 11, in the verse after the ones you cite, it spells out when it is about.

 

Daniel 11:35

 

And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

 

Sorry, you predictably totally miss the target.

Once again you trying o be FUNNY, I do not have time for games, I will place you on ignore sir, A typo is a TYPO, stop being cute. Yiu know I meant they flee Judea fir the Petra/Bozrah area, so why waste a post on this nonsensical statement? 

I have done an Exegesis on Dan. 11 ant 12, I tell whom EVERY KING and all the players are in every verse. Verses 32-34 are about the Maccabean Revolt, which I specific all stated, verse 35 is a TRANSITION VERSE as I state in my Exegesis, and it is the WHOLE CHURCH AGE !! 

OK, after goin back and checking it, (been a few years) I have verses 31-32 as the Maccabean Revolt and verses 33-35 as a Church Age Transition period See BELOW my old post/blog:

Dan. 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Antiichus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there, but as we can see, Antiochus Epiphanes served Zeus, thus he can not be the Willful King of verse 36 as many think, because he served no gods. This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. In the end many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so, but alas, they paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

 

TRANSITION PERIOD

I think this three verse passage covers a 2000 some odd year stretch of time. It reaches from the Maccabean Revolt all the way unto the end times via verse 35 where it states even to the time of the end, which is a yet to be appointed time !! We see in verse 33 that many will understand but fall by the sword, flame, captivity, many days, this sounds like the early church Saints also, they understood, and thus Rome killed them in many violent ways, and when they fall they will be helped with a little help (Holy Spirit), but many will believe Satan's lies (flatteries). Verse 35 keeps up the 2000 year journey unto the end times, many will fall, be purged, made white (Jesus' blood) EVEN TO THE END TIMES !! Which is yet for a future time to be APPOINTED !! Then we see the Anti-Christ starting in verse 36. I think verse 33 is the Maccabean Revolt, and maybe the early Christian Church, then verses 34 and 35 transition via the whole 2000 year Church Age unto the end time !! The transition is a little convoluting and confuses many, some think Antiochus Epiphanes is the character that runs from Daniel 11:21 all the way to verse 45, some think its the Anti-Christ character that runs from verse 21 all the way to verse 45. Both sides seemingly can't see the transition that I see in verses 33-35. Its there, we just have to look a little deeper, it thus is the transition period between the two characters. 

 

[dad2]

27 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Its a 1260 day jump.

Inside your head only. The only period of 1260 is after the Great Tribulation starts. If you thought you were 'called' to invent something else, sorry.

27 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

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Wow, you have zero comprehension skills. You actually think the Time of the Gentiles is about Gentiles ruling over the world I guess or Israel, it is not, it is the TIME when God took His Mantle away from Israel (His calling to reach the world) and gave it unto the Gentiles, and told them to Evangelize the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. When THATB TIME is finished, the Gentile Church gets Raptured,

That time finishes when Jesus returns. Obviously.

 

NOW God's focus for the final 7 years is back on Israel, the once again have God's Mantle so to speak, God wants to set up a Kingdom Age in Jerusalem for 1000 years, fulfilling Hi every prophetic utterance about Israel. 

 He sets that up when He returns. What is being set up there now is not it.

27 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

1.) The original calling or Mantel was to bring forth a Godly nation who are separated unto God and birth a Messiah from that nation (Accomplished 2000 some odd years ago).

2.) Israel brought forth tat Messiah but rejected him, they were too Law Centric, God had to teach the who world that all the law does in convict us, so He needed to teach the world what Abraham knew, God's mercies is unwarranted, and given unto us for one reason only, we believe in God's mercies and His Righteousness, this makes us Righteous via His fee gift. Thus God gave now the Mantel of that calling, over to the Gentiles (in general), and told us to evangelize the world, and that when that had been accomplished, THE END (70th week) would come. (In this decade)

Great. So what? That has what to do with 1948? Once we know when that time ends, what else matters? It ends when Jesus returns.

Luke 21:

²⁴ And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

²⁵ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

²⁶ Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

²⁷ And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

27 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

3.) When THAT END (70th week) comes, the Pre Trib Rapture will have taken the Gentile Church to Heaven to marry the Lamb, thus now the Mantel of God or CALLING of Israel will be back on God Time so to speak, He will set up a 1000 year Kingdom in Jerusalem where Jesus (God the Redeemer) will rule, Amen.

Ridiculous. He does not come in the clouds when the Trib starts.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

So, if you can grasp the above, that is what the Time of the Gentiles being over means. HINT: It can't be when Jerusalem was freed in 1967 or when Israel became a Nation again in 1948, because the Anti-Christ once again rules of Israel/Jerusalem for 3.5 years during the 70th week !! Paul in Romans 11 explains this, when the Time of the Gentiles is COME FULL, only then will Israel be grafted back in. (70th week, AFTER the Rapture)

No one needs a hint to know it is when Jesus returns.

27 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

So, only the Gentiles who get saved during the 70th week can be he Martyrs, they will not be protected, Israel will be, because God has to have an Israeli peoples in order to set up the Kingdom Age period !! Now, will there be a few Jews who repent but refuse to flee, probably, but in  general, no, if Moses and Elijah tell you to flee, you better flee, most will, 99.9 percent will, or more, SMILE.

Except you made that up. We do not know how many will believe in the midst of the seven years.

If only a fraction of a percent were unbelievers at this time, why would armies from all over the globe surround Jerusalem? By your numbers you could send a squad car!

27 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Meanwhile all the clues (as we know) were there, just like I understand the 1335, 1290 and 1260, but of course because you can't grasp it, to you that means it can't be a truth, get out. (lol)

So you won't let that go-inserting numbers in the middle of the seven years. Whatever. Don't bother us with that nonsense.

27 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

 the Time of the Gentiles ends via the Pre Trib Rapture. Its that easy, Israel only come to Christ later on during the 70th week. Just before the DOTL as Zech. 13:8-9 and 13:1 shows us. So, it nit 1948, or 1967, but its also not when Israel gets saved, it is when God's plans take effect in reality, from  Israel, to the Gentiles and finally BACK unto Israel, they only get saved AFTER the Rapture.

No. Israel is not saved in the middle of the week. Only in the end. The plan of God before that is getting them to the point they will get saved.

27 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Matt. 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved(End time no doubt): but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

WHEN? When they see the AoD well when is the AoD? 

It is SIMPLE MATH:

Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So, are you really telling me you can not understand when the Greatest Troubles Ever starts? The above says very clearly in the MIDST of the week !! So, it is not the whole 70th week !! Will you pretend this away also? 

We have already looked at how the Great Trib starts in the middle of the week. Nevertheless the whole seven years is a terrible time. The angels are pouring out the wrath of God. Judgments on the world.

27 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Quote

So, the only NONSENSE is coming from you brother, this is my calling, I actually understand it all. I am not player Message Board Prophecy guy. 

My condolences if you actually believe that.

 

Quote

Too funny, he doesn't understand how Gd uses numbers so since he can't grasp it, it can't be truth. Prophesy is not your calling.

The 1260 days starts when the mid week abomination of desolation is set up. Not really complicated.

 

Maybe you should learn what 3.5-5 million means, lol, that a RANGE VARIANT of 1.5 million, the number is not important, it could be more or less according to births, deaths etc. The NUMBER is nor relevant per se, the number not actually being 144,000 is VERY RELEVAANT, thus if its only 2.5 million  because of deaths, or 6 million because of more births, the POINT IS, its not 144,000 which is miniscule by comparison  to either number. Do you actually think before you respond brother? 

The number is specific and even divided into 12 parts and is not remotely related to some 'range variant'.

 

[dad2]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

So, is there only 10 Virgin Brides? No, it a CODE for Complete Christendom. So, when 5 don't make it that means half of so called Christians will not make the marriage call by Jesus.

That was a parable. We should get the point from it. Not get hung up on inserted pet theories and literal obsession. But it is true that many so called churches will be left behind.

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Correct my calling is Prophecy, your is not, in  a vision in 1986 as a 2 year old Christian I was running form evil dudes with 2 kids, and I hid behind a bush, by a house (still very vivid to me) and a loud booming voice from above said "The Man of Sin is here". 

Did you detox? Or maybe a neighbor was annoyed and shouted what are you doing here? Ha

That reminds me of the blonde that was ice fishing. She was trying to cut the ice in a circle and thought she heard a voice saying 'don't touch the ice'. She was puzzled and yelled, 'God, is that you'? The voice came again and said, 'This is an ice rink, do not cut the ice'.

 

Considering the muddled confusion you ended up with, I would be careful about blaming it on God.

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

To PROVE to me His dreams always comes to pass (me being a young Christian) the Holy Spirit gave me another vision a few months later, this time I was in a HUGE AUDITORIUM, and there were maybe 8 or 9 people there with me, and Jimmy Swaggart was preaching, withing 2 weeks he had fallen from grace. God had showed me he would lose his ministry, he did for a while. So, at that point In was like, yikes, Gid showed me that in order to let me know His first vision was fast and true, so my calling is nit your calling. God doesn't just tell someone the Anti-Christ is in the world in general. Just because I see things you don't maybe you should wise up and listen instead of being a quipster. 

You are welcome to 'see things'. You are not welcome to assault bible prophesy with quack theories.

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Quote

Its God's Wrath, he PROTECTS Israel,

On the contrary. He allows armies to gather to attack them. He allows most of them to be killed...etc etc. You are not even warm.

 

Quote

 

Rev. 12:3 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman(Israel) which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle(God is Eagles Wings in many places in the bible), that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

This is not difficult, there are many more that say the same thing.

 

So believers are protected in the last 3 1/2 years after fleeing. Not the nation of Israel. Not all believers on earth. Obviously since there are many killed for their faith. So?

 

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they flee Judea fir the Petra/Bozrah area, so why waste a post on this nonsensical statement? 

 

 

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I have done an Exegesis on Dan. 11 ant 12, I tell whom EVERY KING and all the players are in every verse.

So you say.

Verses 32-34 are about the Maccabean Revolt, which I specific all stated, verse 35 is a TRANSITION VERSE as I state in my Exegesis, and it is the WHOLE CHURCH AGE !! 

Nope. There is a blending from the past into the end time.

Daniel 11:32

 

And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

 

That is end time!

Any similarity to the Macabees is of no real import.

 

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Antiichus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there, but as we can see, Antiochus Epiphanes served Zeus, thus he can not be the Willful King of verse 36 as many think, because he served no gods. This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. In the end many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so, but alas, they paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

Not only that, it is specifically end time. Including the covenant.

Edited January 2, 2023 by dad2

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, dad2 said:

The thing is where in any prophesy is the restoring and protecting etc of Israel talked about that regards 1948?

When God said

Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.

And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.

And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;

Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.


 

a time being '360' times 7 = 2520

Judah went into captivity to Babylon ENDING Gods people living upon Gods land

and 2520 years later

Gods people were living on Gods land again in 1948. 

Granted, NOT ALL that were planted were GOOD FIGS but then again 



and when God said

And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.

And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.

And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.

As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.

And when He said
Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.



And when He said
The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.

And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.

But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.



Now, AS I have put forth before

THE SCATTERED sheep of the House of Israel DON'T REMEMBER WHO THEY WERE, hence many call themselves 'gentiles' BECAUSE they don't know they are of the House of 'ISRAEL'

HOW DO WE KNOW 'the JEWS' ARE DIFFERENT THAN THE 'SCATTERED SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL'  THAT HEAR HIS VOICE?  (besides when they 'became nations)....




THE SCATTERED SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF JUDAH NEVER FORGOT WHO THEY WERE AND WHERE THEY CAME FROM

 

1The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.

2One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

3Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.

4Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

5Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.

6For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.

7And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

8And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:

9And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them.

10And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers.

 

Again,

From the year they CEASED being A NATION in the land to the day they BECAME A NATION once again

WAS 2520 YEARS

EXACTLY AS GOD PROMISED

 

Can ANY OF THIS be TRULY understood without going to the SCHOOLMASTER?   I don't think so...

9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

 

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, dad2 said:

That land today and the people on it are not His saved people at all. No more, really than the world in general is. The exceptions in all places are not the thrust of the prophesy here. So no, it has not started to be fulfilled.

No, they are THE NATURAL BRANCHES cut off until ALL THE 'GENTILES' (scattered sheep and whomsoever would) HAVE BEEN CALLED.  And we can rest assured that that will NOT HAVE HAPPENED UNTIL the two witnesses STAND and are called up to heaven.  

but THEY ARE THE SAVED PEOPLE because when THEY ARE GRAFTED BACK 

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning

the GOSPEL,

they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

MAKING
 

 

'THE CHURCH' 'Israel, the people of God'   

IF 

the CHURCH isn't ISRAEL

then WHO ON THE PLANET is and have been?   

what HAVE THEY BEEN called, if NOT CHRISTS MEN?  

 AS the sands, dust and stars IN NUMBER, and the SHEEP WHO HEAR HIS VOICE, 

who are they now IF NOT THE CHURCH?  




NO ONE WANTS TO SAY.  DID those OF THE PROMISES, of the COVENANTS simply cease to be?

Did they or did they NOT go on to become MANY NATIONS and a GREAT NATION as GOD SAID THEY WOULD?  

  

 

[dad2]

     

Quote

 

   When God said

        Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

        And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.

        And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.

        And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;

        Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

    [Click and drag to move]

 

 

     That is a general warning. Nothing to do with 1948.

 

     

Quote

 

        a time being '360' times 7 = 2520

        Judah went into captivity to Babylon ENDING Gods people living upon Gods land

 

 

    They actually were in captivity for about 70 years time.

       

Quote

 

        and 2520 years later

        Gods people were living on Gods land again in 1948.

 

 

     Silly number game. By the way the people that run the secular nation are not saved and therefore not His people brought there by God after they get saved.

 

       

Quote

 

and when God said

        And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.

        And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.

        And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

        Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.

        As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.

 

 

    That's it? That is your attempt to provide scripture for a claim God restored them in 1948? No connection at all. Pitiful

      

Quote

        And when He said
        Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

 

    No relation to 1948 at all.

Quote

 

            And when He said
        The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.

        And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.

        But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

        These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

 

 

    Same as above. Stop spamming off topic verses in a pretense that you are replying.

   

Quote

 

        Now, AS I have put forth before

        THE SCATTERED sheep of the House of Israel DON'T REMEMBER WHO THEY WERE, hence many call themselves 'gentiles' BECAUSE they don't know they are of the House of 'ISRAEL'

        HOW DO WE KNOW 'the JEWS' ARE DIFFERENT THAN THE 'SCATTERED SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL'  THAT HEAR HIS VOICE?  (besides when they 'became nations)....

 

 

    God knows. The attacks on that land in the end also do not make any such distinction. It is Israel that is attacked. The Jews in the end left alive who get saved will know their fathers made the wrong choice! Your imagined confusion is invented.

  

 

   

Quote

     THE SCATTERED SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF JUDAH NEVER FORGOT WHO THEY WERE AND WHERE THEY CAME FROM

        The folks in Israel or that are Jewish in the end are not all of one tribe. Get over it. Yet they know Him whom they have pierced.
 

Quote

 

        1The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.

        2One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

        3Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.

        4Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

        5Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.

 

 

    You do realize Chaldea is Babylon? Nothing to do once again with 1948     

Quote

 

         Again,

        From the year they CEASED being A NATION in the land to the day they BECAME A NATION once again

        WAS 2520 YEARS

        EXACTLY AS GOD PROMISED

 

    Except you made that up. The bible does not say 2520 years. We understand you would like to somehow play with numbers to arrive at 1948. Sorry, no. The word time does not mean 360 years, sorry. Nice try.

Quote

        13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

 

   

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by dad2

[dad2]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

No, they are THE NATURAL BRANCHES cut off until ALL THE 'GENTILES' (scattered sheep and whomsoever would) HAVE BEEN CALLED.  And we can rest assured that that will NOT HAVE HAPPENED UNTIL the two witnesses STAND and are called up to heaven. 

but THEY ARE THE SAVED PEOPLE because when THEY ARE GRAFTED BACK 

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

People get saved in the tribulation. Lots of people. Jesus returns right after those days. The two witnesses are not allowed to be killed until after their testimony is finished-after the tribulation.

Do you need me to say that is red letters to get it?

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, dad2 said:

Pitiful

Just because you can't understand it doesn't make it any less correct.

Trying to make it less than it is, doesn't change the fact that it was written, it took place as written, and even the number of years written turned out to be 100 percent  correct. 

What is truly 'pitiful' is that instead of witnessing the MIRACLE of it all, you are choosing to dis it..   

And THIS IS one in which you don't even have to believe in God to see its truth.  All you have to do is look up what happened in the history books and there it is in black and white.    

 'PITIFUL' the 'fruit' that ends this discussion, as I have no need to be insulted because you don't like what is put forth. Have a good year.   

[George]

@dad2  Do you believe the Dead Sea Scrolls is a miracle archaeological find?