Replacement Theology

[Starise]

I hear this term a lot either for or against certain views of the church as it pertains to Israel. 

To further muddy the waters we have authors writing books that further confuse the issue in making claims that really don't fit the bible.

This post is an effort to better understand what the bible actually says based on all the texts we have on it.

I am beginning with thoughts on who "Israel" is. Is it a country or a people, or both? 

Knowns- The Jewish people are God's chosen people and as a nation they are referred to as Israel. Do we have an agreement so far?  This is present tense. The bible clearly says the saved Gentiles are  " grafted" into the body of believers. They never  REPLACED God's chosen people.We as Gentiles were ADDED to the group of saved.

So we have 

-Unsaved Jewish people

-Saved Jewish people

-Saved Gentiles

-Unsaved Gentiles

Since Israel is also a geographic location tied to biblical prophecy that connects books like Daniel to books like Revelation, we can't ignore either the location or God's promises to those who are His.

In a nutshell nothing REPLACED anything. Some things have been superceded or augmented. No Aryan race that are the 'new Jews'. This is occultic gnostic crap.  No country or specific people has replaced Israel. The Jews are not rejected in entirety because they rejected Jesus, God continues to call both Jew and Gentile through His Son. SOME Jews were and are rejected. Same as the Gentiles.

Various parables and NT statements give us a picture of God rejecting the corrupt Jewish establishment of the time. Yet many Jews DID accept Jesus, even a few in the religious establishment did, although it was very few. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Many will say " The Church" is the new Jewish establishment that replaced Israel. I don't see this in scripture. The church is God's inclusive body that encapsulates both Jew and Gentile alike. 

A few parables come to mind here on the subject, but for some reason one I wasn't going to choose as an example of my point seems to keep surfacing is the one found in MATT 20- To prevent a WOT the parable is linked.

This parable is directed at the Jews, but I also see similar hostility and bitterness coming from the Gentiles toward the Jews. Some of them take a high ground over the Jew since they see Jews in general as having been rejected and Gentiles as replacing them. Neither side is the right side here.

We are ALL in this together if saved.

 

 

 

[AnOrangeCat]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

Many will say " The Church" is the new Jewish establishment that replaced Israel. I don't see this in scripture. The church is God's inclusive body that encapsulates both Jew and Gentile alike. 

A few parables come to mind here on the subject, but for some reason one I wasn't going to choose as an example of my point seems to keep surfacing is the one found in MATT 20- To prevent a WOT the parable is linked.

This parable is directed at the Jews, but I also see similar hostility and bitterness coming from the Gentiles toward the Jews. Some of them take a high ground over the Jew since they see Jews in general as having been rejected and Gentiles as replacing them. Neither side is the right side here.

We are ALL in this together if saved.

I agree with this take. Romans 11 speaks of the gentiles as being "grafted in". What you've spoken of is very much in line with that chapter and warns us not to be "arrogant against the branches".

[Starise]

40 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

I agree with this take. Romans 11 speaks of the gentiles as being "grafted in". What you've spoken of is very much in line with that chapter and warns us not to be "arrogant against the branches".

Without realizing it, I condensed a lot of history. Not all of it pleasant. This next link by Rabbi Loren is a WOT, but I think it's worth the read. 

[other one]

6 hours ago, Starise said:

The Jewish people are God's chosen people and as a nation they are referred to as Israel

Could we call them people of the promise instead of the chosen.  He chose Abraham due to his faith, and made promises, and at times tolerated the people  because of his promise to Abraham. I know that's being picky. It removes some defensive feelings from a lot of folks I've interfaced with over the years.

[Starise]

2 hours ago, other one said:

Could we call them people of the promise instead of the chosen.  He chose Abraham due to his faith, and made promises, and at times tolerated the people  because of his promise to Abraham. I know that's being picky. It removes some defensive feelings from a lot of folks I've interfaced with over the years.

Sometimes a view can be different over one little word. I should maybe refer to them as people of promise. One thing I have heard that is very interesting is they did not exist prior to the Lord's calling them as His people. We can trace the Greeks and the Romans back further, but Abraham was the father of a nation.

[Starise]

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

It's nice to see my resolution to shut my mouth is being tested right away.

Uh oh.

[George]

16 minutes ago, believeinHim said:

No, We do not have an agreement. Christians are God's chosen people, Or it is broader than that. Christ made a new covenant when he sent His son down for us. The Jewish people are either God's chosen people In Conjunction with Gentiles,

Or Christians are God's chosen people.

Since Jesus, Christians are God's chosen people. Or it is in conjunction. How many Jewish people believe in Jesus in comparison to a Christian ? They have to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior........................,,,,,,,,

Read this carefully ...

Eph 2:12  remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 

Separated from God without any hope ... but now Gentiles through the Messiah are joining to covenants of promises that they never knew!

Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 

Eph 2:14  For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 

Eph 2:15  by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 

Eph 2:16  and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 

That God is CREATING A NEW MAN ... JEW AND GENTILE ONE IN MESSIAH

Eph 2:19  So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 

SO GENTILES ARE NO LONGER STRANGERS AND ALIENS ... they JOINED to a COVENANT PROMISE ... who's promise covenant?  To the promise covenants given to ISRAEL!

Eph 2:20  built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 

Eph 2:21  in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 

Continuing in Chapter 3 ...

Eph 3:5  which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 

Eph 3:6  This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 

Gentiles are FELLOW HEIRS ... NOT SOLE HEIRS ... FELLOW HEIRS ... who's inheritance did they JOIN TO when they came to faith in the Jewish Messiah?  The promises of Israel ... GENTILES JOINED to an INHERITANCE they didn't HAVE!

Eph 3:9  and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things, 

Eph 3:10  so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.

EVEN the ANGELS DIDN'T UNDERSTAND GOD'S PLAN OF SALVATION EXTENDING TO ALL NATIONS!

Gentiles are joining to promises of the covenant, and now God is giving the responsibility to recover the Jewish people back to their inheritance to the Gentile believers in the Jewish Messiah!

Rom 11:11  I say then, Did they not stumble that they fall? Let it not be! But by their slipping away came salvation to the nations, to provoke them to jealousy.

SALVATION WAS OPENED TO THE GENTILES ... FOR WHAT REASON?  TO PROVOKE THE JEWISH PEOPLE BACK TO THEIR MESSIAH!

Rom 11:12  But if their slipping away is the riches of the world, and their default is the riches of the nations, how much more their fullness? 

Rom 11:13  For I speak to you, the nations; since I am the apostle of the nations, I glorify my ministry; 

Rom 11:14  if by any means I may provoke those who are my flesh to jealousy, and might save some of them. 

TO PROVOKE THEM TO JEALOUSY ... IS THE CALLING THAT GENTILES HAVE!  TO PROVOKE THEM TO JEALOUSY TO THEIR OWN PROMISES, TO THEIR OWN COVENANT PROMISES THAT GENTILES WERE JOINING TO ... SO THAT GOD MAY SAVE THE JEWISH PEOPLE THROUGH GENTILES! 

Rom 11:15  For if their casting away is the reconciling of the world, what is the reception except life from the dead? 

The question should be re-asked ... are you doing what God is calling you to do as a Gentile in faith in the Jewish Messiah?

[Starise]

12 minutes ago, believeinHim said:

No, We do not have an agreement. Christians are God's chosen people, Or it is broader than that. Christ made a new covenant when he sent His son down for us. The Jewish people are either God's chosen people In Conjunction with Gentiles,

Or Christians are God's chosen people.

Since Jesus, Christians are God's chosen people. Or it is in conjunction. How many Jewish people believe in Jesus in comparison to a Christian ? They have to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior........................,,,,,,,,

This is a little hard to follow.

So if either Jew or Gentile accepts Christ you think they are both saved? My point is neither group should be excluded.

Jesus didn't only come for one group. Yes there are saved and unsaved Jews, saved and unsaved gentiles. Being a certain nationality is not an automatic ticket to heaven, in fact only about a 3rd of the Jews will be saved in the end acording to some of my research.

What success would the death as a sacrifice of Yeshua be if only a sliver of mankind had the potential to be saved? 

[Starise]

11 minutes ago, George said:

Read this carefully ...

Eph 2:12  remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 

Separated from God without any hope ... but now Gentiles through the Messiah are joining to covenants of promises that they never knew!

Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 

Eph 2:14  For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 

Eph 2:15  by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 

Eph 2:16  and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 

That God is CREATING A NEW MAN ... JEW AND GENTILE ONE IN MESSIAH

Eph 2:19  So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 

SO GENTILES ARE NO LONGER STRANGERS AND ALIENS ... they JOINED to a COVENANT PROMISE ... who's promise covenant?  To the promise covenants given to ISRAEL!

Eph 2:20  built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 

Eph 2:21  in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 

Continuing in Chapter 3 ...

Eph 3:5  which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 

Eph 3:6  This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 

Gentiles are FELLOW HEIRS ... NOT SOLE HEIRS ... FELLOW HEIRS ... who's inheritance did they JOIN TO when they came to faith in the Jewish Messiah?  The promises of Israel ... GENTILES JOINED to an INHERITANCE they didn't HAVE!

Eph 3:9  and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things, 

Eph 3:10  so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.

EVEN the ANGELS DIDN'T UNDERSTAND GOD'S PLAN OF SALVATION EXTENDING TO ALL NATIONS!

Gentiles are joining to promises of the covenant, and now God is giving the responsibility to recover the Jewish people back to their inheritance to the Gentile believers in the Jewish Messiah!

Rom 11:11  I say then, Did they not stumble that they fall? Let it not be! But by their slipping away came salvation to the nations, to provoke them to jealousy.

SALVATION WAS OPENED TO THE GENTILES ... FOR WHAT REASON?  TO PROVOKE THE JEWISH PEOPLE BACK TO THEIR MESSIAH!

Rom 11:12  But if their slipping away is the riches of the world, and their default is the riches of the nations, how much more their fullness? 

Rom 11:13  For I speak to you, the nations; since I am the apostle of the nations, I glorify my ministry; 

Rom 11:14  if by any means I may provoke those who are my flesh to jealousy, and might save some of them. 

TO PROVOKE THEM TO JEALOUSY ... IS THE CALLING THAT GENTILES HAVE!  TO PROVOKE THEM TO JEALOUSY TO THEIR OWN PROMISES, TO THEIR OWN COVENANT PROMISES THAT GENTILES WERE JOINING TO ... SO THAT GOD MAY SAVE THE JEWISH PEOPLE THROUGH GENTILES! 

Rom 11:15  For if their casting away is the reconciling of the world, what is the reception except life from the dead? 

The question should be re-asked ... are you doing what God is calling you to do as a Gentile in faith in the Jewish Messiah?

We must have posted at almost the same time. I like your response as it shows the progression for rejection>promises conveyed to Gentiles>Jewish return> end result, salvation to all who take it.

[other one]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Sometimes a view can be different over one little word. I should maybe refer to them as people of promise. One thing I have heard that is very interesting is they did not exist prior to the Lord's calling them as His people. We can trace the Greeks and the Romans back further, but Abraham was the father of a nation.

It's too long to post on my phone, but I see it as coming from the split at the tower of Babel. They didn't want to do what God told them to do by going to a single area and one leader.  He divided them up according to the number of the sons of God.  It's my connector that those sons of God were to Shepard them but decided to be worshipped themselves.  So God had no people for himself so he took Abraham and made him a people. Took about 500 years.  The rest is history.