Chosen to Salvation

[Selah7]

On 1/10/2023 at 9:47 AM, David1701 said:

That God foreknew, when it refers to people, as contrasted with events, does not mean "knew about beforehand", but, "chose beforehand".

Here is what BDAG says (the foremost Koine Greek lexicon)

Foreknow (proginosko)

BDAG:
προγινώσκω

1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
Hs 7:5. Abs., in advance 2 Pt 3:17.

2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29., 11:2, Pass. of Christ προεγνωσμένος πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου 1 Pt 1:20.—Know from time past προγινώσκοντές με ἄνωθεν Ac 26:5.

Regarding 2nd Thess...

2 Thess. 2:8-13 (KJV)

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
  9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
  10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
  11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
  12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 
  13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
  14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Verses 12 and 13 show that this is a contrast between those who are to be damned and those whom God chose, from the beginning, to salvation.  The means God chose to save us, is through setting apart, by the Holy Spirit, and belief of the truth.

That those chosen to salvation were not merely at some vague time in the future, but also right there and then, is proved by the fact that verse 13 says, "But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you...because God has, from the beginning, chosen you to salvation...".

I apologize if I’m getting off-topic here, but as I read your post—which, by the way, I agree with, I thought of this question for your consideration.  I’ll go ahead and post the relevant verses so we can better understand the context.

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.  - 2 Peter 1:1-4

Okay, here’s the question:

Is the “knowledge of God” in verse 2 and “the knowledge of him” in verse 3 referring to the foreknowledge of God?  I believe it is, but I heard someone say on another forum that this was referring to our knowledge of God. 

Thoughts?
 

[David1701]

3 hours ago, Selah7 said:

I apologize if I’m getting off-topic here, but as I read your post—which, by the way, I agree with, I thought of this question for your consideration.  I’ll go ahead and post the relevant verses so we can better understand the context.

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.  - 2 Peter 1:1-4

Okay, here’s the question:

Is the “knowledge of God” in verse 2 and “the knowledge of him” in verse 3 referring to the foreknowledge of God?  I believe it is, but I heard someone say on another forum that this was referring to our knowledge of God. 

Thoughts?
 

Foreknowledge is "proginosko"; however the word for "knowledge" here is "epignosis" (full recognition, or acknowledgment) and refers to our knowledge of God.

[Marathoner]

On 1/10/2023 at 6:33 AM, David1701 said:

The reasons why God chooses some for salvation and not others are given in general terms; and they are all based on God's will and pleasure, his glory and his grace.


Eph. 1:4-6, 11 (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

1) God has purposed to choose a people for himself, to make us holy and without blame before him in love

2) God has purposed to choose a people for himself, to adopt us into his family

3) God's purpose in election to salvation, is the good pleasure of his will

4) God's purpose in election to salvation, is the glory of his grace.

5) God predestined his chosen ones to salvation, according to the purpose and counsel of his own will.

1 Cor. 1:27-31 (KJV)
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

A) God has chosen the foolish things of the world, to confound the "wise"

B) God has chosen the weak things to confound the "mighty"

C) God has chosen the despised, to bring to nothing those who are something, in human terms

D) God's purpose in this is that no-one should boast in his presence

E) It is of God that we are in Christ Jesus (i.e. not our will or decision)

F) All this is for one, overarching purpose: that the one who glories, glories in the Lord

Rom. 9:14-16 (KJV)
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

1) God's shows mercy and compassion to whom he will

2) The basis for God's choice of whom to have mercy upon, is not man's will, or works, but within God himself, who shows mercy.

Amen, brother. 

I believe that some are confused regarding the will and purpose of Almighty God, which a plain reading of scripture is the antidote; but then we're looking at both indoctrination and long-held belief, which is why I'm moved to compassion and understanding. 

I get it. It was a simple matter for me to grasp, but then the Lord raised me up in a way which left no room for doubt. When my brother introduced me to the scriptures a long time ago, I already understood that God is Almighty... that all things serve Him... and that His word never returns to Him void. 

He never loses a single one, something else I experienced by His hand over time. I witnessed this for myself, so scripture affirms what the Lord has demonstrated to me. 

There is a matter which deserves my time in this post, and this is something which our sister @Selah7 has expressed many times on the forum. The scriptures affirm that there are some whom the Lord chooses to fulfill His work on this earth. I'm on my phone (no copying and pasting passages), so I'll rely upon my memory to furnish examples:

The Lord chose Abraham...

He chose Pharaoh...

And He chose the twelve (yes, even Judas). The Lord chose the man born blind, and He chose the Samaritan woman at the well. 

Scripture informs us why this is so: He chooses to display His power in some --- both the vessel of honor and dishonor --- so that His name shall be glorified in the land of the living. 

Our best example is His choosing of the twelve disciples from the Gospels. We know why He chose Judas, who was indeed a vessel of dishonor: it was so scripture would be fulfilled. 

[Selah7]

I believe these scriptures in 2 Peter, as discussed above, can be understood on more than one level (like peeling layers of an onion).  

We know for sure that Peter is speaking to the elect.  If we go back to 1 Peter, we can see this is so:

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.  - 1 Peter 1:1-2

Moving on, something that sticks out to me in 2 Peter 1:12-15 are the words, “in remembrance.”

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

NT:5280 
hupomnesis (hoop-om'-nay-sis); from NT:5279; a reminding or (reflexively) recollection:
KJV - remembrance.

And in 2 Peter 3:1:  This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

NT:5279
hupomimnesko (hoop-om-im-nace'-ko); from NT:5259 and NT:3403; to remind quietly, i.e. suggest to the (middle voice one's own) memory:
KJV - put in mind, remember, bring to (put in) remembrance.

Selah


 

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Amen, brother. 

I believe that some are confused regarding the will and purpose of Almighty God, which a plain reading of scripture is the antidote; but then we're looking at both indoctrination and long-held belief, which is why I'm moved to compassion and understanding. 

I get it. It was a simple matter for me to grasp, but then the Lord raised me up in a way which left no room for doubt. When my brother introduced me to the scriptures a long time ago, I already understood that God is Almighty... that all things serve Him... and that His word never returns to Him void. 

He never loses a single one, something else I experienced by His hand over time. I witnessed this for myself, so scripture affirms what the Lord has demonstrated to me. 

There is a matter which deserves my time in this post, and this is something which our sister @Selah7 has expressed many times on the forum. The scriptures affirm that there are some whom the Lord chooses to fulfill His work on this earth. I'm on my phone (no copying and pasting passages), so I'll rely upon my memory to furnish examples:

The Lord chose Abraham...

He chose Pharaoh...

And He chose the twelve (yes, even Judas). The Lord chose the man born blind, and He chose the Samaritan woman at the well. 

Scripture informs us why this is so: He chooses to display His power in some --- both the vessel of honor and dishonor --- so that His name shall be glorified in the land of the living. 

Our best example is His choosing of the twelve disciples from the Gospels. We know why He chose Judas, who was indeed a vessel of dishonor: it was so scripture would be fulfilled. 

I am reminded of something called "directive prophecy" which is a term applied to the sort of speaking forth by prophets typically in a causative way, meaning the thing they spoke happened because they said it would.

See 1 Samuel 10.

[farouk]

On 1/14/2023 at 12:53 PM, David1701 said:

1) Salvation is not some mere "provision", contingent upon the sinful will of fallen man!  Salvation has been accomplished! 

2) The Lord Jesus came to save his people from their sins, and that is exactly what he did.

3) Jesus did not come to provide some kind of "potential" redemption: he redeemed his people from the slave market of sin.

4) Jesus did not come to provide some "potential" propitiation of the Father, contingent upon sinful man's choice: he propitiated the Father, for all those for whom he died (his chosen ones).

5) Yes, only those who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved, because that is the means through which God has chosen to save his chosen people.

6) As the Bible states, repentance and faith are gifts from God, so they are not the product of sinful man's choice.

Provisionism is a counterfeit "gospel" and those who teach it undermine the accomplishment of the Lord on the cross.  It's blasphemous.

Hi @David1701 I am reminded of the title of John Murray's book, Salvation Accomplished and Applied..........

[farouk]

7 hours ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

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QUESTION

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What is the effectual calling/call?

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ANSWER

The term effectual call, as related to salvation, comes from Chapter X of the 1647 Westminster Confession of Faith. The effectual call is understood as God’s sovereign drawing of a sinner to salvation. The effectual call to a sinner so overwhelms his natural inclination to rebel that he willingly places faith in Jesus Christ. The apostle Paul refers to the effectual call when he writes, “It is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill His good purpose” (Philippians 2:13). The necessity of the effectual call is emphasized in Jesus’ words, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them” (John 6:44).

Paul further affirms that God must impress His will on the natural state of man when he writes that those who oppose God “must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 2:25). The apostle Peter writes that God “called us by his own glory and goodness” (2 Peter 1:3). Peter’s use of the Greek word kaleo, which is translated “called,” expresses the action of God calling sinners. Whenever kaleo is used in the participial form, as it is in this passage, with God as the subject, it refers to the effectual call of God on sinners to salvation. Kaleo carries the idea that a sinner is being drawn to God rather than simply invited to come.

The effectual calling is more commonly known as “irresistible grace,” which is the I in the acronym TULIP. The doctrine of effectual calling is closely related to the doctrine of total depravity, the T in TULIP. Since the unregenerate man is “dead in transgressions and sins” (Ephesians 2:1), he is incapable of reaching out to God or responding to the gospel of Jesus Christ on his own. “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God” (Romans 3:10–11). This state of total depravity makes the effectual calling of God necessary to give anyone the opportunity for salvation.

Jesus said, “For many are invited, but few are chosen” (Matthew 22:14). In this statement, Jesus distinguishes between the general call that everyone receives by hearing the gospel and the effectual call that leads to salvation. The effectual call is also taught in passages such as Romans 1:6, where Paul greets the believers as those “who are called to belong to Jesus Christ”; and Acts 16:14, where Luke says of Lydia that “the Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.” The effectual call, therefore, is God’s action toward the elect, those whom He chose in Christ “before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless. . . . He predestined [them] for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 1:4–5).

The general call, on the other hand, is for all of humanity, not just the elect. The famous passage, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16), portrays God’s general revelation to everyone in the world. The gospel is available to everyone, but, because of humanity’s sinful nature and total depravity, no one will turn to God without God first impressing Himself on them.

@Rosie1jack2pauline3  I am reminded of James 1.18: "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth"...

[Wayne222]

God did not choose anyone to hell before they were born. He wants deeply for everyone to be saved. Of course not all will. 

[David1701]

On 1/15/2023 at 11:42 PM, Marathoner said:

Amen, brother. 

I believe that some are confused regarding the will and purpose of Almighty God, which a plain reading of scripture is the antidote; but then we're looking at both indoctrination and long-held belief, which is why I'm moved to compassion and understanding. 

I get it. It was a simple matter for me to grasp, but then the Lord raised me up in a way which left no room for doubt. When my brother introduced me to the scriptures a long time ago, I already understood that God is Almighty... that all things serve Him... and that His word never returns to Him void. 

He never loses a single one, something else I experienced by His hand over time. I witnessed this for myself, so scripture affirms what the Lord has demonstrated to me. 

There is a matter which deserves my time in this post, and this is something which our sister @Selah7 has expressed many times on the forum. The scriptures affirm that there are some whom the Lord chooses to fulfill His work on this earth. I'm on my phone (no copying and pasting passages), so I'll rely upon my memory to furnish examples:

The Lord chose Abraham...

He chose Pharaoh...

And He chose the twelve (yes, even Judas). The Lord chose the man born blind, and He chose the Samaritan woman at the well. 

Scripture informs us why this is so: He chooses to display His power in some --- both the vessel of honor and dishonor --- so that His name shall be glorified in the land of the living. 

Our best example is His choosing of the twelve disciples from the Gospels. We know why He chose Judas, who was indeed a vessel of dishonor: it was so scripture would be fulfilled. 

Amen to all that!

[David1701]

9 hours ago, farouk said:

Hi @David1701 I am reminded of the title of John Murray's book, Salvation Accomplished and Applied..........

I don't have the book; but, yes, that's it, in a nutshell.